Delaying an SSM Launch (Full Version)

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Harpooner -> Delaying an SSM Launch (8/7/2006 9:25:49 PM)

I have a question for the experts of Harpoon...

I have a land based unit that can fire long ranged SSMs, and the ships are just within its range. I find that when I assign the SSM base to attack a target, it does so immediately---even it you put a delay on it. If you assign a set of airplanes to attacK a target, and set at delay on it, the delay works for the aircraft. Is there a way to delay an SSM launch from land bases?




emsoy -> RE: Delaying an SSM Launch (8/8/2006 6:51:13 PM)

Yeah there's a hack that you can use... although it should only be used for the AI side...





hermanhum -> RE: Delaying an SSM Launch (8/8/2006 11:54:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harpooner

I have a question for the experts of Harpoon...

I have a land based unit that can fire long ranged SSMs, and the ships are just within its range. I find that when I assign the SSM base to attack a target, it does so immediately---even it you put a delay on it. If you assign a set of airplanes to attacK a target, and set at delay on it, the delay works for the aircraft. Is there a way to delay an SSM launch from land bases?


We've developed a technique for the AI to use on ScenShare.

Take a look at the Index of Scenario Design Tips

A sample file built with the PlayersDB has been placed in the Design and tactical tips folder for your convenience.

We've also worked out a second (more user-friendly) solution, but haven't had the time to release it, yet. [8D]




hermanhum -> RE: Delaying an SSM Launch (8/12/2006 11:30:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harpooner

I have a question for the experts of Harpoon...

I have a land based unit that can fire long ranged SSMs, and the ships are just within its range. I find that when I assign the SSM base to attack a target, it does so immediately---even it you put a delay on it. If you assign a set of airplanes to attacK a target, and set at delay on it, the delay works for the aircraft. Is there a way to delay an SSM launch from land bases?


We've developed a second [simpler] technique for the AI to use on Delaying an SSM Launch ScenShare.

Take a look at the Index of Scenario Design Tips

A sample file built with the PlayersDB has been placed in the Design and tactical tips folder for your convenience.

Many thanks to Galrahn and dWinston [Harpooner] for broaching the issue and prodding us to find a solution. [8D]




VistaJohn -> RE: Delaying an SSM Launch (8/13/2006 5:38:01 AM)

Hi

How about putting the anwser here? This is where the question was asked! I'd like to know the anwser also. The same is true is you setup surface or submarines for a mission also.

VistaJohn[:'(]




hermanhum -> RE: Delaying an SSM Launch (8/13/2006 5:58:58 AM)

That's a good question. The answer was re-directed because it is usually far easier to show than to explain. Access to the Sample file is probably pretty handy. However, I will try to explain as best I can.

1. Create target side for the player and installations / units you want to have hit.

2. Create a new side for the AI's SSMs. Insert no other units. Because the SSMs do not have any datalinks to the target side, they won't release their SSMs right away.

3. Create a side called Link and place two Aide Invisible bases on it (one to launch from and one to land on).

4. Set posture of Link so that it is Friendly to SSM side.

5. Add one aircraft of any type onto the Launch base.

6. Create a delayed ferry mission to the Landing base for the aircraft (for when you want your SSMs to launch).

7. When the aircraft launch, a link will be established between the SSM side and the Targets. Once the SSM side is "aware" of the Coalition side, the SSMs are launched.

Hopefully this helps and does not confuse. [8D]




Sunburn -> RE: Delaying an SSM Launch (8/13/2006 10:51:41 AM)

OMFG!!! Using "helper" units and other tricks to work around game engine issues and improve a scenario experience!!! Where is Vinnie Beretta's self-righteous indignation when you need it.....[&o]

(BTW nice job on that, Herm)




Vincenzo Beretta -> RE: Delaying an SSM Launch (8/13/2006 1:38:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn
Where is Vinnie Beretta's self-righteous indignation when you need it.....[&o]


It is neither for sale nor for public use [8D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn
OMFG!!! Using "helper" units and other tricks to work around game engine issues and improve a scenario experience!!!


Everybody does that, and you can find intelligent work-arounds for any kind of game-problems related not only to Harpoon but to TOAW 3, Steel Panthers, you name it.

Usually, these workarounds are either announced in the scenario briefing or put in the "house rules" that the player should expect to follow to play the scenario correctly. This can be waived when the workaround itself is totally invisible, and has the only function to make the AI behave in a more correct way.

However, if you - just to give an example - know from the scenario briefing (or from the situation) that you are going against SSNGs, deploy an adequate ASW screen, and the SSNG fire anyway BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THERE, BUT THEY ARE SIMULATED BY MISSILE MOUNTED ON INVISIBLE WEATHER BALLOOONS. Not only this is kept hidden in the briefing, but the scenario is then bragged around as "to be played with realistic tactics for the maximum realism" (usualy in a context of disparagement of other people's work); this is no more a "workaround": this is cheating, because TRUTH IS THAT REALISTIC TACTICS WILL NOT WORK.

If an SSNG (or anything else) is out there I want to have a fair chance to find it using ASW tactics. OR a warning in the briefing that her attack will be simulated by an "event"; fair enough: Hearts of Iron 2 does this all the time - the player knows it, it is part of the accepted rules, life goes on.

And then someone with a carrier smoking in the water opens up a scenario in the editor to check where that damned SSNG was, and instead finds in her place a ballooon race (a stunning experience, trust me); when this happens suddently checking scenarios becomes "cheating" and whined about stronger than a 757 taking off right outside your window (by those promoting them as "the hallmark in realism" of course).

HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM! [8|]

Below is an example from "Clash of Titans" for DB2000. Download the scenario, open up it in the scenario editor, check for yourself. Then please point to me how one could try to protect his carriers agains non-existant SSNGs fully able to fire missiles anyway.

Here is my self-righteous indignation when you need it. Satisfied? [:)]



[image]local://upfiles/2692/7DDE592E9D194B86A480E6BAE2383F54.gif[/image]




Sunburn -> RE: Delaying an SSM Launch (8/13/2006 4:00:47 PM)

Thank you Vinnie. You made my point (and my day) by posting exactly what I needed. Thanks again [8D]




Harpooner -> RE: Delaying an SSM Launch (8/18/2006 2:35:46 AM)

I've located the article on Delayed SSM launch, I've incorporated its techniques into a scenario I'm working on.

On the section of Postponing Hostilities, I see that it does work---by adding a Link side and a Link Destroyer, I'm able to delay the beginning of the mutual attack. [:)]

But on the matter of Delaying TLAM/SSM attacks, I can't get it to work. What I'm trying to accomplish is the AI Side parcelling out its SSM attacks thru-out the scenario. What is happening is that the Side A, the AI side, will unleash all of its missiles once the link is destroyed. I tried breaking up Side A---assigning each missile force to pro-Side A, and then add Links to each side---but the result are still the same...Side A unleashes a torrent of missiles for Side B to defeat! I find that such a missile exchange is concluded in less than 20 minutes, and ONLY putting up a VERY STRONG anti-missile screen could save Side B.[sm=Christo_pull_hair.gif]

Delaying hostilities AND parcelling out SSM attacks---can they be done in the same scenario? [&:]





hermanhum -> RE: Delaying an SSM Launch (8/18/2006 2:51:05 AM)

I think what you want is definitely possible. It is awkward, but I think that you have to set up a side for every different launch time. For example, if you want to an attack at H+1, H+6, and H+8, you need to set up three sides exactly as described in the examples. Ensure that the three sides are neutral to each other. This way, when the Link aircraft for H+1 are launched, they don't trigger H+6 and H+8 to release their birds, too! [:D]

My suspicion is that you have somehow interlinked the various sides and they are all getting the same reports. I have been able to do multiple delayed SRBM launches.

If you run into further problems, feel free to post your scen either to ScenShare or to StrategyZoneOnline and I can try to set them up for you. Although Matrix does not have the capability to post up files, these two sites will allow you to host small files:

[image]http://img275.echo.cx/img275/3526/szologo47ty.gif[/image]SZO file archives - Home of the Harpoon3 PlayersDB

[image]http://img271.echo.cx/img271/7972/badger0ma.th.jpg[/image]FilesOfScenShare


Glad to see you getting down and dirty with scen building! [8D]




hermanhum -> RE: Delaying an SSM Launch (8/18/2006 5:00:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harpooner

Delaying hostilities AND parcelling out SSM attacks---can they be done in the same scenario? [&:]


I re-read this part of the message and realized that you have incorporated both techniques into your scenario. While I believe that it is theoretically possible, I wonder if you might be complicating your scenario unnecessarily?

The first technique was introduced to PREVENT hostilities until a random time. The player was actually prohibited from firing until the random event occurred. I used it in Quicksand with the PlayersDB to give a random initiation of hostilities.

The second technique pretty much presumes that both sides are already hostile and only delays the launch of SSMs.

I am pretty certain that the two techniques are compatible, but it is a very tricky matter to set up the postures properly. [8D]




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