Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

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ravinhood
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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by ravinhood »

ORIGINAL: Vyshka

From what I read recently (will try to find a link), our Asian allies don't believe we can defeat China in a conflict anymore. A mayor of a Japanese city went so far as to label American troops, with the exception of Marines, extremely incompetent, and the public's reaction to the number of casualties apparently reinforces the point for them. They think we wouldn't be able to stomach the cost of a fight with China. I believe it was an article in Insight magazine, which is related to the Washington Times. Yep here is the link

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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by bostonrpgmania »




Japan were mobilizing womens of neighboring countries (at that time, colonies of Japan) as sex toys for soldiers (even girls who were at their early teens) but yet they argue that they were volunteers (whoooooo...did you see the pictures of ladies now at their late 90s who cried about their experience as a sex toy of japanese soldiers?)

They masacred a lot of people in China ruthlessly (I remember seeing documentary film where they toss a chinese baby in the air and then use the sword attached to their gun to kill him in the air--simply disgusting) yet they argue that they were not japanese soldiers but soldiers from their colonies....

Japan needs to look back history and should apologize to their neighboring countries for what they have done instead of writing big lies in that shrine.
To be a responsible member of the international commuinity, they need to really apologize as Germany did after WW II

I know..I have many good Japanese friends
Met individually, they are one of the most polite gentlemen in the world. Collectively, it could be a very different story and some are very worried abuot
recent rising twisted nationalism in Japan Those Samuria movies may gave us some impression about the country but what they have done to their neighbors in the history should be taught as they are to the next generation. But still, Japanes gov supports textbooks that twist and distort the fact.


You will be surprised to know how they discriminated students of Asian countries that drove some of them to suicide themselves..How can this be consistent with so gentle Japanse we encounter? I dont know....
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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by SemperAugustus »

The situation in Eastern Asia is a lot more complicated than just Japan attacking Pearl Harbor out of the blue.

The Japanese government was hardly united in a expansionist policy, e.g. the Japanese left the Anti-Comintern Pact with Italy and German in protest of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. The anti-war faction was in power up until a few months before the attack on the US colonies in Hawaii and the Philippines. The Japanese war in China lacked clear goals and for much of the war there was a de facto truce between the Japanese and Nationalists.

Even the warfare in Asia was a mixture of "liberation" and "conquest", the Japanese were aided by Indonesian, Philippine, Burmese, Indian, Mongolian, Thai and Chinese troops (not only the Manchukuo forces). The Burmese, Indians and Thais all fought on the side of the Japanese to drive the British out of Burma. The Japanese diplomatic corps believed in "Greater Prosperity Sphere", while the army believed in exploitation at all costs. This made the Japanese policy extremely schizophrenic. A complete lack of cultural sensivity on the Japanese part didn't make things better. That said, if you read about e.g. Joseph Laurel, Aung San, Phibun and Sukarno they all seem to be "secretly fighting" the Japanese, while helping to fight the allies. I personally find it as likely as Miklos Horthy's "resistence" to the Germans.

Even the end of the war is pretty complex, e.g. the Japanese were used as soldiers by the Chinese communists and the Indonesians became independent thanks to Japanese training and arms.
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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by Major SNAFU_M »

ORIGINAL: Vyshka

From what I read recently (will try to find a link), our Asian allies don't believe we can defeat China in a conflict anymore. A mayor of a Japanese city went so far as to label American troops, with the exception of Marines, extremely incompetent, and the public's reaction to the number of casualties apparently reinforces the point for them. They think we wouldn't be able to stomach the cost of a fight with China. I believe it was an article in Insight magazine, which is related to the Washington Times. Yep here is the link


I found this post interesting.

I haven't felt that we could defeat China for a long number of years. In fact, almost immediately after the S.U. came apart I found myself thinking about and reading up on China.

Short of using nuclear options (which still wouldn't give us a sure thing) the best any country could ever hope to achive, if a war with China became a reality, is a stalemate.

You could never win a ground war. China can always opt for a war of attrition which they will win.

I personally hope that this never becomes a reality. While I am not a big fan of the massive trade deficit we have with China, and I an incensed by the fact that China has "Most Favored Trading status" with the U.S. the best hope for future peace is for "business to be good" Too good, in fact, to risk losing the business due to a war.

But this is a huge topic, that I have given only the briefest of cursory overview, and I haven't had sufficient caffiene yet today.[>:]

So take some of this with a grain of salt.

Anyway, from my desk to all:

"Have a great Thanksgiving and/or take a moment today to be thankful for all that is good in your lives and for the moment push back the problems and workaday concerns."

Maj. SNAFU

Also, My apologies for semi-hijacking this thread. Now back to the main story.
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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by SemperAugustus »

ORIGINAL: bostonrpgmania
Japan were mobilizing womens of neighboring countries as sex toys for soldiers but yet they argue that they were volunteers

Japanese women also became sex toys for the soldiers, not that it changes the guilt of the Japanese. AFAIK it was a misguided attempt to prevent the Japanese soldiers from repeating the Nanking massacre. The cause was identified by the Japanese high command as sexual frustration, thus "comfort women" were needed to release the "tension".
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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by rhondabrwn »

ORIGINAL: Reiryc
ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Well, as always, the victors get to define "victimhood"

So then the rapist gets to define victimhood over the person he rapes?


Does this sound familiar?

"she's a whore" "she's a tease" "she wore provacative clothing" "She was asking for it" "she's slept with plenty of other men" "she was willing before she was against it" (oops... getting political here) and so forth.

Rapists definitely get to define victimhood over the person that is raped. Sad, but true (despite some improvement over the years). In wars, the winner has always tended to write the history, determine who are "war criminals" and so forth, though in contemporary society that model has been changed due to better news coverage and ample opportunities for alernative histories to be presented... witness Iraq... the US won't be dictating that history (it will proabably be written for us and won't be very flattering, I suspect).

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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by Vyshka »

ORIGINAL: mantill

OK, Gerald (aka Vyshka) gets the prize for the strangest and possibly the creepiest avatar.

(Gerald: If thats your mum I apologise now)

hehe, nope that is Edna. She is a Civilization addict. You can find her and others at www.civanon.org . There is a quicktime video where I took that picture from. She is hilarious. It was something Firaxis put together to promote Civ 4 at E3 earlier this year.
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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by MarcA »

ORIGINAL: Vyshka
ORIGINAL: mantill

OK, Gerald (aka Vyshka) gets the prize for the strangest and possibly the creepiest avatar.

(Gerald: If thats your mum I apologise now)

hehe, nope that is Edna. She is a Civilization addict. You can find her and others at www.civanon.org . There is a quicktime video where I took that picture from. She is hilarious. It was something Firaxis put together to promote Civ 4 at E3 earlier this year.

I like it, good vid
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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by aletoledo »

rhondabrwn, thanks for saving me a lot of writing, i agree with everything you've said and its nice to see a portion of us here in the USA can see through our polictical propaganda and our own self-rightousness.
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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by rhondabrwn »

ORIGINAL: aletoledo

rhondabrwn, thanks for saving me a lot of writing, i agree with everything you've said and its nice to see a portion of us here in the USA can see through our polictical propaganda and our own self-rightousness.

Thank you! You are very gracious.
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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by Cmdrcain »

ORIGINAL: mantill
ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they secretly send a carrier fleet to launch a suprise attack on one of our major naval bases in Hawaii? I know they goofed on the declaration of war being delievered after the attack because of a communications snafu but still... [:-]

That was the start of the war and no-one is arguing Japan was not to blame for that. We are talking about why Japan went to war to begin with and for that American imperialist policy in the far east and it's economic bullying of Japan, particularly the oil embargo, has to be taken into account. I am not saying the US is wholly responsible just that it has some responsibility for the causes of the war.


You would say then that the USA had no right to Embargo Oil?

How is refusing to sell Oil a nation owns "bullying"?

It was not only Oil,we shutoff scrap steel/Iron sales too.

However Japan had refused to agree to certain things in China, US interests in china were threatened, so we shutoff exports to Japan, Japan still was able to buy elsewhere if could...

Was Japans going to war over it reasonable? Depends on POV [:D]

From Japans POV with the shutoff threatening to curtail their China adventures perhaps, but from USA view, going to war cause we decided not to sell to Japan, we were not Blocading them, only refusing sell AMERICAN OIL and Scrap metal, from US pov we
were just no longer supplying them so they could use such material to expand and threaten our China interests..

Interesting that you term it American imperialist policy, Yet USA wasn't an empire nor ruled by "royalty", OTOH Japan WAS imperialist,they were actually taking over China's land, so Japan attacks USA because USA cuts off the materials Japan needed.. Japan created the war by their imperalistic adventures..

Really, who was most aggresive? Japan.

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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by Cmdrcain »

ORIGINAL: SemperAugustus

"liberation" and "conquest", the Japanese were aided by Indonesian, Philippine, Burmese, Indian,


Explain the Phillipines troops, That doesn't make sense..

Fact is Phillipines were to get independence, it was already arranged but Japans invasion changed the timetable, so why would phillipine troops be aiding japanese who came and flat out took over phillipines?

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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by pasternakski »

And this thread has to do with wargaming how?

Come on, sports fans. What America did in its post-colonial rush for power following up on flexing its muscles against an impotent Spain, a fatigued Germany, and a nascent fascist Japan is not grist for this mill. Moreover, Japan's 20th century imperialist ambitions and their consequences have been analyzed and debated by hundreds of commentators at a three-dimensional length, breadth, and depth that cannot be resolved through bare assertions here.

So, how about a nice game of chess?
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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by Cmdrcain »

To Snafu:

I don't see China being able to win a conventional
war if we don't Ground attack.

Conventionally, I'd say we could hit Chinas ports, industry, etc while China is unable to do that short of tossing Nukes at USA.

China has no blue water Navy, no Power projection outside of China itself, how would china get supplies if their shipping is sunk? Their Planes unable transport things?

Their Ports uncapable of being used, USA simply could hit China with long range bombers, Carrier based strikes, cruise missles, etc..

USA is a SUPERpower, China is NOT.

If China goes nuclear, it loses its citys, its breadbasket... USa would be hurt but I don't think China at present has ability to hit more then our West Coast.

It would be either way an ugly war...

The only reason to use ground forces would be to invade China, thats just not what we should attempt.

However once their industrys damaged, and feeding all of them impaired I'd expect that China would have problems, one overlooks that China is still just made up of parts, They might have problems controlling parts of China if areas rebel as people start to starve.

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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by pasternakski »

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain
how would china get supplies if their shipping is sunk?
Captain Sutter faced a similar problem in California after the discovery of gold.

He founded his mining town, but had to go to San Francisco on business for a couple of weeks, so he called together Smith his mine foreman, Johnson his town administrator, and Chang his head cook.

"Men," he said, "I will be gone for two weeks. I depend on you three to keep this operation running. Smith, the ore needs to continue flowing from the mine to the railhead. Johnson, the workers need to be kept on the job. Chang, the entire camp depends on your making sure that food, fuel, and other necessaries are delivered on time to the right places. Your job is supplies. Don't let me down."

With that, Sutter boarded the train and headed for San Francisco. Two weeks later, he returned.

As he debarked the train, he was met by Smith and Johnson. From the looks on their faces, he could tell that something was terribly wrong. "Sir," said Smith, "we have failed you. The townsfolk have abandoned the settlement, the mine is not being worked, and the entire operation has shut down."

"How could this happen?" asked Sutter. Johnson replied, "It's Chang, Captain Sutter. He disappeared the day you left and hasn't been seen since. No food or equipment has been delivered to the company store, the provisioning station has not operated at all, and there are no tools or machinery in working condition anywhere.

"Well, what have you done about it?" exclaimed the good Captain. "Sir," said Smith, "We've looked everywhere for Chang and just can't find him."

"Everywhere?" asked Sutter. "Let's look again, he's got to be around here somewhere."

So, Sutter, Smith, and Johnson went through the entire site with a fine toothed comb. Town, stables, shipping yard, ore processing facility, no Chang. Finally, Sutter said, "Chang must be down in the mine." "We looked everywhere down there, Captain," said Johnson," and we just couldn't find him."

"Let's look again," said Sutter. "We've got to get this place back up and running or we're all out of business. Chang must be found."

Well, the three men spent hours and hours walking through the labyrinthine tunnels of the gold mine. Finally, Sutter sat down, head in hand, and said, "Men, we're beaten. I'm going to have to close this operation, declare bankruptcy, and let everyone go. It's the worst disaster in the history of the American West."

Suddenly, from a side tunnel, Chang jumped out, smiling wildly, arms outstretched, and yelled, "Suplise!!!"
Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.
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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by Sarge »

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn


BTW I don't recall the US making a formal declaration of war against Iraq before launching our "Shock and Awe" sound and light show followed by our invasion. What will future generations think of that? It turns out we acted in response to threats that weren't real so will we be judged as a rogue nation? The Japanese had their reasons for what they did and how they did it. We have to respect that and not sink to an emotional level in which one side or the other has to be the "victim" or the "aggressor"

Easy now with the left wing BS [:-]

And to tell you the truth I could give to sh-ts the reasoning Japan behind putting some young Americans in the grave.

I have to respect that, what are you NUTS.

War is not a game [:@]
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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by VicKevlar »

I'm watching this thread.......if it doesn't get/stay on topic you can start it up again over and the Mad Cow Steakhouse.
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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by rhondabrwn »

ORIGINAL: Sarge
ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn


BTW I don't recall the US making a formal declaration of war against Iraq before launching our "Shock and Awe" sound and light show followed by our invasion. What will future generations think of that? It turns out we acted in response to threats that weren't real so will we be judged as a rogue nation? The Japanese had their reasons for what they did and how they did it. We have to respect that and not sink to an emotional level in which one side or the other has to be the "victim" or the "aggressor"

Easy now with the left wing BS [:-]

And to tell you the truth I could give to sh-ts the reasoning Japan behind putting some young Americans in the grave.

I have to respect that, what are you NUTS.

War is not a game [:@]

VicKevlar's right... I'm not getting into this debate. And I certainly agree that war is definitely NOT a game.
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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by Sarge »

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn


BTW I don't recall the US making a formal declaration of war against Iraq before launching our "Shock and Awe" sound and light show followed by our invasion.
VicKevlar's right... I'm not getting into this debate. And I certainly agree that war is definitely NOT a game.


Don't go there and then hide behind Vic, you know the rules.

Nice cut a run tactics [8|]

Sry Vic

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RE: Tokyo teacher embattled over war history

Post by Reiryc »

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Does this sound familiar?

"she's a whore" "she's a tease" "she wore provacative clothing" "She was asking for it" "she's slept with plenty of other men" "she was willing before she was against it" (oops... getting political here) and so forth.

Rapists definitely get to define victimhood over the person that is raped. Sad, but true (despite some improvement over the years). In wars, the winner has always tended to write the history, determine who are "war criminals" and so forth, though in contemporary society that model has been changed due to better news coverage and ample opportunities for alernative histories to be presented... witness Iraq... the US won't be dictating that history (it will proabably be written for us and won't be very flattering, I suspect).


Odd... I've never found that the rapist writes the history, but rather the person who was raped. The person who goes to the police and reports the crime from their point of view.

I also disagree with your assessment on iraq and who will write the history. I think, provided our leftists don't lose the war for us (as we won't be beaten militarily), that the history will be quite positive for the US in 50 years time regarding that nation.



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