Campaign Games

[Big B]

I am a WitP/UV player - so I don't know this game well - but my question is does it come with a campaign game that covers the invasion of Sicily through Anzio as one long master campaign?

B

[zanekin]

no.
3 separate map, 3 "campaign"...

IMHO, this is a very good operationnal game but not really made for strategic simulation. The War in Europe scenario is a huge and valuable work but it will never work as a grand strategy simulation because all the political and economic stuff are "home made rules" that the system can't handle properly.

[Fred98]

But I suspect a modder is hard at work producing a full campaign to combine the 3 scenarios

-

[JSS]

ORIGINAL: zanekin

no.
3 separate map, 3 "campaign"...

IMHO, this is a very good operationnal game but not really made for strategic simulation. The War in Europe scenario is a huge and valuable work but it will never work as a grand strategy simulation because all the political and economic stuff are "home made rules" that the system can't handle properly.

The game is definitely an Operational game. If you push it down to grand tactical (HTTR/Combined Arms) level or up to strategic (WitP) it doesn't work as well. WiE is fun but the purely strategic/political decisions are limited (will work some of these into the v0.30 build).

As far as having a grand Italian campaign it could be done (map provided with game covers the entire Sicily/Italy area... you only see a bit of it in each of the three official scenarios)... The one limitation in the game that would affect such a scenario is a hard turn limit of 80 turns per scenario. I'm looking into how to have 35-45 days of Sicily Invasion followed by an accelerated arrival period and then 35-45 days of invading Italy. Think this would be very interesting variant. This would put some tremendous pressure on the Axis player to make real theater level decisions on unit deployment.

I think the game works best at one turn a day (max). 2-3 days per turn might also work but I think going much higher pushes you into the strategic arena (movement allowances, arrival schedules, etc...).

[zanekin]

I'm totaly agreeing with you.

All wargame's design problems (and satisfaction of the players) are more or less scale problems: the balance between force, action and time.

[JSS]

ORIGINAL: Big B

I am a WitP/UV player - so I don't know this game well - but my question is does it come with a campaign game that covers the invasion of Sicily through Anzio as one long master campaign?

B

...and now it does! Covers Sicily invasion thru two invasions of Italy (player chosen landing operations See post here or at Run5 for the details.

[scout1]

JSS,


Another most excellent effort on your part (where do you find the time to do this and crush me at the same time ? [;)] )

the readme file during during the installation process is still from Patton MOB, btw

[JSS]

Scout,

Thanks, will get the readme notes updated.... in the meantime heres' what should be there (minus the install instructions):



This scenario is a mega-campaign for Battles in Italy. It is designed to provide a historical perspective of the challenges facing both sides. The campaign begins with the Operation Husky starting situation and continues to 27 Sep 1943 (80 turns). This goes thru most of the Operation Avalanche scenario timeframe.

=> Aside from the Opn Husky invasion forces and initial Sicily defense positions, both sides are reasonably free to conduct the campaign within the scenario limits.

=> AI opponent is included. It has not been fully tested yet. Thru turn 5 it appears to be working properly. Recommend playing verus German AI.

=> Key features of the campaign:

1. XXX (Br) Corps (HQs, 50 ID, & 51 ID) cannot invade the Italian mainland due to Overlord requirements. Same goes for II (US) Corps (HQs, 2 AD, 1 ID, & 9 ID) and a number of naval units. These units (along with Patton’s Seventh Army HQs) remain at Sicily… they remain available for island defense and any necessary mopping up operations.

2. Numerous landing options are available to the Allied player after the initial Husky forces land. This includes both around the island and onto the mainland. Palermo is critical for American follow on amphibious operations. Messina is important (but not invasion stopping) for the BC. Invasion of the mainland can take place very early but is likely to end in disaster. All plains/towns along the Italian mainland can be invasion landing sites.

3. Mainland defenders are in reserve until turn 36. Earliest time for full scale invasion is probably turn 35.

4. Active Axis units can freely move back and forth thru Messina starting turn 4. Initially two fallshirmjager regiments, XIV Pz Korps HQs, 16 Pz Div, and a Flak brigade are available to reinforce the Sicily island defense.

5. Attacking near Rome is likely to bring the II SS Pz Korps into action.

6. Invasion planning must be done in advance by the Allied player. Forces must be placed in Palermo, Messina, Catania, Syracuse, or the Tunisia/Malta ports on the turn prior to amphibious transports being available. Transports become available to the US forces on turn 25 and the BC on turn 27. Around turn 34 the sealift assets are concentrated and a large invasion force can be assembled (may take several turns of placing units in amphibious mode awaiting the invasion order).

7. While any plains hex can serve as an invasion site, there are a limited number of supply sources on the Italian mainland.

a. These supply sources can be used by the Allies from turn 25 on. The limited availability of these supply sources is one of two limiting features to the campaign…

b. The other limiting feature is the fact that there are only six supply units available to move to the Italian mainland (Fifth US Army HQs, US Provisional Corps, VI US Corps, Eighth BR Army HQs, XIII BR Corps, and X BR Corps). Half of these are subject to being lost during the Sicilian Campaign…if they are destroyed, they are not replaced!

8. There are a limited number of full replacements available to each side. Allied units have a significantly larger number of timed (auto-repair) replacements available than German units.

9. Around 1 September 1943 Italian supply drops off severely (approximate timing of historical Italian surrender).

Please post any observations of unit errors or suggestions to improve play balance to the Run5 forums.

JSS

[zanekin]

good job

really !

[&o]

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: JSS

ORIGINAL: Big B

I am a WitP/UV player - so I don't know this game well - but my question is does it come with a campaign game that covers the invasion of Sicily through Anzio as one long master campaign?

B

...and now it does! Covers Sicily invasion thru two invasions of Italy (player chosen landing operations See post here or at Run5 for the details.

OUTSTANDING!![&o]

I may have to buy this game now![8D]

One question now - what is the maximum length of your monster campaign in game turns (days)?

[JSS]

ORIGINAL: Big B

OUTSTANDING!![&o]

I may have to buy this game now![8D]

One question now - what is the maximum length of your monster campaign in game turns (days)?

Game goes for 2 & 1/2 months of one day turns (80 turns).

Highly recommend BII [:D] It's good. Real good. Better than the award winning KP & BiN versions...

[Black Mamba 1942]

Big B is right!

Bigger is better!!![:D]
We like complexity.[;)]