CHS and Pearl Harbor

[rockmedic109]

CHS 1.02 with ver 1.6, Against Japanese AI.

Ran about ten first turns in last 10 hours or so. The first few as is, then ran a few with varying degrees of damage and or flotation to Oklahoma and Arizona. Trying to get close to a historic result. Utah always goes down but only had Oklahoma sink {Magazine explosion}. Usually have only two heavily damaged BBs. I tried up to 70 flotation and 70 System damage {the numbers input into the Database editor--I do not know if that was supposed to be given as "700" to get 70%}. I tried my last one without any damage to the BBs but putting all of Pearl Harbor's fighter squadrons on Training and got the best results. Only Utah sank, but most are over 50% system damage.

I don't know if it was luck or if the lack of CAP caused less disruption to the attackers, giving better results. Those wanting a little better Pearl Harbor attacks might want to look into it. IJN air losses within about 10% of what I remember the average to be {memory--not scientific}. Allies air losses are about 15% less than usual during the runs.



Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 114,72

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 57
D3A2 Val x 137
B5N2 Kate x 157

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 5 destroyed, 10 damaged
D3A2 Val: 10 destroyed, 68 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 6 destroyed, 30 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
PBY Catalina: 20 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 24 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
P-36A Mohawk: 10 destroyed
B-17D Fortress: 3 destroyed
B-18A Bolo: 8 destroyed
SBD Dauntless: 5 destroyed
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 4 destroyed
C-47 Dakota: 1 destroyed
B-17E Fortress: 4 destroyed
A-20B Boston: 2 destroyed
P-26A: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 12, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
BB California, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 14, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 1
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 9
PC Tiger, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Utah, Bomb hits 12, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1, on fire
ML Oglala, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1
AVD Avocet, Bomb hits 1
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 1


Allied ground losses:
220 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

Airbase hits 50
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 293

[Andrew Brown]

Have you tried it without the Utah?

*ducks for cover*

[rockmedic109]

Nope {hitting myself in the forehead}.

Tonight was my first try with the Database editor. I'd heard about the increasing the damage on Arizona and Oklahoma and the Hong Kong 50 forts and figured I would try it out.

When I was lurking and reading about the discussions over Utah, I was always thinking it best to leave her in. Now, I am not so sure. I still have a strong nostalgic pull to leave to old boat in.

I also kinda like it when PG Wake survive the Kates and gets done in by the museum pieces {Idzumo and Iwate}.

Of course you've done it now. I am going to have to take Utah out and run a turn. Oh well, don't have to be to work for another 13 hours.

Great job on the CHS package and my many thanks {and my wife's curses!}.

Stephen E Hood

[Sardaukar]

With 1.01 I didn't lose single BB, but most were severely damaged. I did scuttle Utah..it was 98 sys and was consuming valuable repair points. I hope to be as lucky next time too (this is of course against AI).

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109
Great job on the CHS package and my many thanks {and my wife's curses!}.

You can thank Don. He's "the man".

[timtom]

Kudos all round to the CHS team. I, in particular, love the naval OOB chances. Whoever came up withthe idea of adding those scooners should be awarded a medal.

Anyways, I've run PH a few times (only), with or without the Utah, and my expericence is pretty similar to yours, Steven.

In my personal version of CHS, I'm removing the Utah. Although I appreciate the reasons for putting her there in the first place, my experience (such as it is) indicates to me that it overstates its soak-up effect. Furthermore, being potentially left with an otherwise useless ship doesn't go well with my anal-compulsive disorder - although in fairness the Utah has invariably sunk so far - and I'm instituting a few other chances that mostly favours the Allies, so in the name of balance...

[rockmedic109]

Just ran a turn 1 without Utah {while I was baking cookies for my wife--shocking what marriage makes you do}. One run is not a good sample, but this one only had two BBs with greater than 50% sys damage.

I think I'll just take that last run and make a game of it.

Gotta go. The cookies are done.

[Terminus]

COOKIES... COOKIES... COOKIES...

[Ron Saueracker]

The problem is not having the Utah in, the problem which is causing the lighter than historical losses is the fact that Battleship Row can't be modelled to simulate half the BBs being immune to torp attacks (Maryland, Tennessee, Arizona and Pennsylvania were either inboard of other ships or in drydock). Therefore the torp hits are being spread out as opposed to concentrated on the actual outboard ships.

[timtom]

(nuff, nuff) Any word on the non-respawn version, Ron?

[treespider]

Consider it sacrilege....how about a Dec 8th CHS start? That way everything starts historically. Without deep Japanese operations and the like that take advantage of the first turn surprise movement rule...

Pearl Harbor would have the historical damage done....etc.

[Montbrun]

For single-play that would be nice. But for PBEM, the Japanese player can lose out on alot of VPs...

Brad

[treespider]

I thought VP's can be adjusted at start to account for the short fall...plus from my one experience so far and from the sound of this thread and other peoples experiences they do not garner alot of VP's anyway..

[jcjordan]

Well in my current game me vs AI IJN I lost 4 BB's to the AI with Utah only taking 40 sys & the others in the 20's & below, so it can happen.

[doktorblood]

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Well in my current game me vs AI IJN I lost 4 BB's to the AI with Utah only taking 40 sys & the others in the 20's & below, so it can happen.

Quick....have the AI go buy you a lotto ticket!

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: timtom

(nuff, nuff) Any word on the non-respawn version, Ron?

Justin (TankerAce) is going to put it out as soon as WPO is in the oven.[:)]

[Sharkosaurus rex]

I know this is the HISTORICAL scenario, but think out of the box for a moment. If you make the two BB that had the historically lowest damage re-inforcements that arrive on turn two with some damage already taken. This would give the Jap Pearl Harbour strike the concentration against the remaining six BBs. And maybe the Japs wouldn't have to wait around PH for three or four days sinking them all.

I don't know if that would satisfy anyone but it might help.

[Tanaka]

Wondered if anyone had considered this regarding CHS pearl harbor results and standard game ones.

In CHS people have to use Nagumo.

In the standard game everyone uses Yamaguchi.

Leaders have a impact in this game. Utah aside, maybe this is one of the big differences...

This also poses the question: Why was KB moved out of port in the CHS? Was this to prevent this change?

[witpqs]

Well, two days ago I ran (Allies vs AI) turn 1 CHS 1.06 and WiTP v1.602. I got 2 BB's sunk, all the rest with heavy damage (none sank nor were real close to it), several cruisers and destroyers with heavy damage, and a few other ships with serious to heavy damage. If there was a problem with damage being too light at PH, I think they fixed it.

[rockmedic109]

I ran it with CHS 1.06 on monday. California was destroyed by Magazine explosion and Arizona was a loss after 1 torp and MANY 800kg AP bombs. I also had two BBs with 90+% sys damage.

I put all Kates on Port attack and the Vals on airfield {maybe one on port}. I also put Tennessee, Maryland and Pennsylvania arriving on Dec 8 with damage.

I was happy with the results. I don't know why...probably just luck, I have been getting more Magazine explosions lately.

I love CHS.