Make neutrals join the alliance

[Oleg Mastruko]

I have a question, I could ask on the beta board, but I think the answer might interest other readers of this board as well, so I am asking it here.

Is there a way to make neutral join the alliance without being attacked? Say, when a preset date is reached?

O.

[Drax Kramer]

I guess it can be done by making each neutral predestined to join one alliance if some event takes place, basically all neutrals would be considered as politically frozen member of this or that power.

For example, Brazil should be a part of Western Allied faction that unfreezes if Axis submarine enters a sea zone next to Brazil or together with US (no later then Win 43).

Spain could be German frozen nation that joins Axis when Germany conquers England (the most realistic way for Franco to join the fray).

Turkey could join Axis when it is completely surrounded with Axis controlled territory.


Drax

[Oleg Mastruko]

Of course it can be done that way, by unfreezing, but that's not what I am interested in. I wanted to know if it's possible to make "true" neutral join the alliance.

O.

[Joel Billings]

I checked with Keith. No, there is no way set up currently to allow a true neutral to join an alliance. You would need to make the country a frozen member of an alliance in order for it to join automatically at a certain time (or under other conditions as per the frozen text file options).

[tacticon]

I think Greece should become actived for the WAllies when Yugo is attacked. It gives a slight disincentive to a Yugo attack and also open up the strategic choice as to whether the WAllies wish to reinforce. Greece was already a defacto alliance member with the fall of Yugo anyway. There is no other reason military or economic for Germany to attack Greece in the game otherwise. Plus it has the added benefit of pushing the German timetable back three months as happened historically.

[Oleg Mastruko]

I planned to include Greek activation when Yugo is attacked in my mod. BUT then you must give Axis (Germans) unfrozen Bulgaria turn prior to that so that they can attack Yugoslavia and Greece simoultaneously, as they did historically. Perhaps too much hassle without much strategic effect.

O.

[tacticon]

I would still argue in favor because it gives it creates strategic choices on both sides. Right now Yugo is served up on a silver platter by using only Italian and Balkan forces on the first turn. It requires no propositioning of German forces which happened historically. WAllies have the additional choice of intervening in Greece, defending NAF or defending GB. This was exactly the choice Britain was forced to make in the Spr of '41. It's the strategic decision that’s important not the tactical decision of which country to attack from. Will GB choose to defend Greece if Ger commits only Balkan forces? Does this force Germany to deploy Armor and 1st line Infantry before attacking Yugo to scare GB away? Does Germany have enough forces to go for Spain and Yugo/Greece simultaneously?

So forget about whether Germany can attack from Bulgaria or not. Having the Greeks activate creates a greater array of historical choices then leaving the game as is.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: tacticon

So forget about whether Germany can attack from Bulgaria or not. Having the Greeks activate creates a greater array of historical choices then leaving the game as is.

No I don't agree. If you have Greece activated on the turn Yugo is attacked, and without giving Axis chance to attack from Bulgaria you create unhistoric situation. Then the Allied player will have full turn (3 months) to do whatever he pleases with Greece and its forces. He can evacuate Greek army and use them elsewhere (highly unrealistic). He can reinforce Greece with tons of militia (bit more realistic but still wrong).

Historically, Germans attacked Yugoslavia and Greece simultaneously on 6th April, and by the end of May they not only occupied all of Yugo and Greece, but also have undertaken Para drop on Crete and took control of the island. In WAW thats like HALF of one turn time. Your suggestion would have them struggle over Yugo and Greece for 2 turns, then at least another turn to try something over Krete?

BTW - unrelated note - Axis player who insists on taking Yugoslavia on turn 1 is making a grave mistake, anyway....

O.

[Drax Kramer]

Historically, Hungary and Rumania were activated as German allies (in the sense that Germans could strategically move troops accross their territories) in 1940. Italian invasion of Greece from Albania on Fall 1940 turn was a consequence of Rumanian activation.

Axis attack was repelled and on the same turn, Wallies sent a fighter unit as reinforcement.

In Winter 1941 turn, Bulgaria activates and allows Germany to strategically redeploy into the country in order to invade Greece.

In same turn, British send an infantry unit to Greece to beef up the Greek forces.

On Spring 1941 turn, Germany invades Greece from Bulgaria and conquers it (heavy bomber carries the airborne unit to Crete), while simultaneously other German units previously redeployed to Rumania and Hungary, as well as those from Austria, invade Yugoslavia and conquer it.

So, if the same rule that allows Soviets to strategically redeploy troops through frozen territories is applied to Hungary, Rumania and Bulgaria and tactical movement of Axis troops from these territories is allowed when Greece or Yugoslavia are attacked (from Albania and Austria respectively), historical sequence of events can be duplicated.


Drax

[tacticon]

Is it possible to activate for an alliance but still be frozen? I see two possible ways that can give the Germans cause to attack Greece. Either start Greece off gifting its resource to WAllies, or start Greece off as a frozen WA zone. The 2nd case may be better for the AI. Either way no resources for Germany until they attack it.

We can also make a case for making rough terrain blitz-able for armor units. Since at this scale of 3 months turns, it is more historical than not. If this were the case, Germany would have to deploy armor for a Yugo/Greek blitz.

I'd like to see some small change to the Greek situation in order to make it a little more interesting.