Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Gary Grigsby's strategic level wargame covering the entire War in the Pacific from 1941 to 1945 or beyond.

Moderators: Joel Billings, wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami

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testarossa
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by testarossa »

ORIGINAL: Beezle

A new version of a strategic American Civil War game would be wonderful! That was actually what excited me the most of anything in the pipeline.

That will probably limit the game's market to US only. Personally I have no interest in US civil war.
ZOOMIE1980
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by ZOOMIE1980 »

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

I'm very much pleased with WitP and I will continue to play for long time to come; I don't think something like this will be out again in the near future.

Joel Billings comments: "We'll continue to fix major bugs for sometime. Just don't expect an endless stream of new features or routines rewritten to attempt to increase the accuracy of the model by including new variables. "

Joel, my question to you: I do realize that there is so much a person can do for a project within a given time [:)] I was wondering when time runs out for WitP or better say when developers will have to focus on the future project only is there any chance that some of us from the community can step and help with future code cleanup and new features for WitP ? Seems WitP engine is not an option for future projects however I would be happy to step in and help out with WitP further development; for free of charge of course.

Regards,

Peter Fisla

PS: My skills - C/C++, WinAPi 32, MFC

I was going to ask that same thing. Once they've squeezed all the revenue they can out of it, it would be kind of nice to let some enterprising person/group carry it on as a future freebie ala PACWAR.
ZOOMIE1980
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by ZOOMIE1980 »

ORIGINAL: testarossa
ORIGINAL: Beezle

A new version of a strategic American Civil War game would be wonderful! That was actually what excited me the most of anything in the pipeline.

That will probably limit the game's market to US only. Personally I have no interest in US civil war.

I think the US Civil War would have a broadbased appeal due to it's place in history as a precursor to many of the things we saw in WWI, and the enormous size and scope of the conflict (larger than any European confolict up till that time). If US players have had interest in Napoleanic conflicts, Franco-Prussia, etc.... I can imagine a lot of Euro's would have interest in the American Civil War.
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MButtazoni
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by MButtazoni »

so many opinions, so little understanding of GGWAW...
Maurice Buttazoni
Project Coordinator, Playtest Coordinator

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ZOOMIE1980
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by ZOOMIE1980 »

ORIGINAL: MButtazoni

so many opinions, so little understanding of GGWAW...

Yea, I need to invest some time over there.... On first sight, the game didn't appeal to me much. But I need a more in-depth look-see...
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Tankerace
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by Tankerace »

I must confess my dissapointment of no Medwar game, but that is no biggie. My only hope is that Witp will continue to be suported for at least as long as UV was.
Designer of War Plan Orange
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pfnognoff
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by pfnognoff »

ORIGINAL: fbastos

Say there are 5,000 folks willing to pay $20 for an upgrade of the game engine; I'm sure they wouldn't refuse our $100K to work on improvements we desire. Otherwise, 1.4 will be the last with engine changes.

Heck, I could pay say $10 per month for constant upgrades on the game; perhaps many other folks would do it for say $5 per month.

F.

I too would hope something like this can become a reality. WiTP has incredible value for money from day one, it was playable and fun. Bugs should go out for free, but no upgrade after that sure is a disapointment. Ground movement needs improvement, retreat after combat needs improvement, night air missions need imporvement... I mean we are still just finding out how it all actually works.

Don't forget it is a game that takes over 1 year to finish PBeM. So if I'm to explore all the strategies I can come up with I would need to play it for quite a number of years. It will never leave the hard drive. But if it lacks support it might die, and that would be a shame.

Maybe the length WiTP takes to complete and time it consumes is also a factor why it will be stoped. I mean if we all just play WiTP we will not have time to play all the other new titles [;)]

I definatrely plan to try out Empires in Arms, and maybe GGWaW but those two combined with WiTP will consume so much free time, 24 hrs will not be enough in a day for us who need to work and sleep also. [:D]
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testarossa
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by testarossa »

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980
ORIGINAL: MButtazoni

so many opinions, so little understanding of GGWAW...

Yea, I need to invest some time over there.... On first sight, the game didn't appeal to me much. But I need a more in-depth look-see...

Same here.
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Tanaka
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by Tanaka »

ORIGINAL: captskillet
BUT I WILL BUY A CIVIL WAR GAME!!!!!

Amen to that brother!!!!

Since the demise of Civil War Generals II I have surely missed my 2nd favorite war!!!!

Yes I am really looking forword to this one!!! [:D] I think you mean the demise of CivWArGens III by Sierra. They were supposed to make it but it never came out.
CivWarGens II was an ok game (very old now) but I always wanted a great full theater game. Hopefully Matrix will accomplish that!!!

American Civil War by Frank Hunter was full theater but is a very small scale and very dated game.
ORIGINAL: sveint

East Front? Shrug - the full european theatre would have been so much more interesting.

Yes I must say that half theater games such as the Mediterranean or the Eastern Front never have really interested me. But whole theater games like WITP I cant get enough of. I would be all about a War in Europe game though. Thats why I will probably check out GGWAW.

I also must say I do hope that WITP's life isnt already over. It is such a gem and has so much potential. I feel like it just got started and it kinda makes me sad they will stop working on it in a few months. It is now my favorite game of all time and probably will be for a very very long time..... Hopefully they will let us continue to improve this amazing game in some way!!!!

Nice to here about a future UV patch as well....what a nice little bonus!!!
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pad152
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by pad152 »

Wow, after reading the developers journal it sounds like Witp left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth and the Witp engine is dead.[:(]

Just my 2 cents;

UV - update, why bother, put the resources in adding a couple of more features in Witp.

WAW - little interest.

Civil War - little interest.

War in Russia - enjoyed the first one.

Steel Panthers - It seems to me that at one time every other Matrix game in development was a updated version of Steel Panthers. After Combat Mission I had a hard time enjoying SP.

Wish list;

1. A modern version of UV now that Harpoon is dead.

2. A new version of Computer Air Combat (My all time SSI favorite game).

3. A good turn based tactical squad level WWII game (AKA computer ambush). It's sad the original X-com game is still the best squad level based game.
Chaplain
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by Chaplain »

ORIGINAL: MButtazoni
so many opinions, so little understanding of GGWAW...

Hey, Maurice, I probably spend $500/yr on wargames (and have for 25 years) and I would love to be convinced that GGWaW is worth the attention of a grognard. But I have followed the forums without comment because I see nothing that even begins to convince me it's more than what we used to call a "beer-and-pretzels" game.

Help me (and others like me) understand what we don't understand, and we'll come around. As it stands, WaW seems clearly marketed for mass appeal a la Starcraft or Axis and Allies, rather than the usual Matrix set.

Just my opinion.
Halsey
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by Halsey »

We still call it "beer and pretzels" father.[:D]
Chaplain
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by Chaplain »

ORIGINAL: Halsey

We still call it "beer and pretzels" father.[:D]

LOL! [:D]
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fbastos
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by fbastos »

That's something we'd have to take up with Matrix when the time comes. I wouldn't wish that work on anyone, but I realize that to some this could be fun. It's certainly a possibility down the road. Basically, from what I can tell, that's what Matrix and Mike Wood did for the original Pac War long after SSI had any ongoing interest.

Hey, count me in too! I would love to help as a pro-bona work, including signing a non-disclosure agreement.

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Halsey
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by Halsey »

I think it's a good move for Matrix, even though it really doesn't appeal to us hardcore gamers.

The market might be more sympathetic to a strategy game like this. Besides, their heads are still pounding from the work that they've put into WITP. This is a break for these guys.

At least the forum thread for GGWAW shouldn't be as cannibalistic as this one is.[:D]
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fbastos
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by fbastos »

so many opinions, so little understanding of GGWAW...

To be honest, GGWAW looks pretty much like a big RISK game to me. I'm much more for hyper-realism than high levels of abstraction, so I'm not planning on buying it (albeit I keep my mind open and certainly want to learn more).

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Joel Billings
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by Joel Billings »

It's interesting how game marketing has changed over the last 5 years, at least in the minds of many Matrix/WitP fans. For many years, computer wargamers were just like boardgames in that once published, the only thing that anyone felt was left to be done was to fix any bugs (with boardgames this meant rulebook errata). With the advent of Matrix's (and others) ongoing work on old titles, especially with most of this work being provided free of charge, some people now see the publication of a game as just the first step in an ongoing public development process. This may also have a lot to do with the way online games have developed over the past 10 years, with subscriptions paying for ongoing work. Unless a subscription model can be developed that makes sense, I don't see how anyone could expect official development work to continue. We're all for unofficial modders (just wait for GGWaW to see more of the benefit of this), but spending our time continuing to improve a title that has long since shipped just doesn't make financial sense without ongoing revenues. By the way, we don't see WitP as being dead, in fact sales in October were significantly higher than they were in September, and we would expect the game to continue selling for some time. I just don't believe that improving the game will generate many additional sales over just committing to fix bugs as they are found.

Perhaps Matrix will look into the real interest in subscription revenue for future WitP work. As for leaving a bad taste in our mouths, it's more that we had the same taste in our mouth for so long that we're desperate to find something else to taste. There's no reason that WitP buyers shouldn't be able to enjoy the game for a long time, helped on by various fans that provide various art mods, info spreadsheets and new scenarios. Enjoy.
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Tankerace
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by Tankerace »

I might get GGWaW, but from what I can see it is going to be a fiarly quick paced game, and not as in depth as I like wargames. From what GGWaW seems to be (to me), if I have Hearts of Iron I really don't see justification for buying GGWaW, especially with a whole slew of other games coming out at the same time (Silent Hunter III baby, Torpedo Los!).

GGWaW looks good, but (I rather think beer and pretzels describes it well) I just can't justify spending 50 dollars on a game that is a faster paced, turned based version of a game I already own. One thing I buy a game on is length. If a wargame taks me more than a month to play, i love it. If it takes 6 months (West Front Dynamic Campaign) or over a year (Witp), then I will be willing to live on Ramen noodles for a while to get it. But for a game that is relatively short, no. Maybe in a few years if the price comes down.
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Halsey
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by Halsey »

Hijack! SH3, can't wait![;)]
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fbastos
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RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal

Post by fbastos »

Perhaps Matrix will look into the real interest in subscription revenue for future WitP work.

I'm willing to work for free to improve the game, ... also...

I'm willing to pay up to $15/month for someone else to improve the game. ... but...

I'm not willing to have the game dead in the water - I might very well avoid the aggravation and stop playing it right now and no longer advocate it to my friends

Why not ask Matrix their position about subscription right now and avoid uncertainties? $15 will probably be too much for most of the folks, so perhaps $5 to $10 per month will keep everybody happy.

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