Hi Rick!
Where are you? I sent my last turn to you over a month ago:)
Great patriotic war (possum one)
RE: RE:
1942. july 19.
Clear
The red army secured 3 more bridgeheads on the west bank of the Odera this week. A german HQ were overrun in czech territory by our tankers leaving hundreds of Luftwaffe killer machines destroyed. We need some rest now before the final (?) battle.
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
736/366
32/65
153/44
446/0
Stavka
Clear
The red army secured 3 more bridgeheads on the west bank of the Odera this week. A german HQ were overrun in czech territory by our tankers leaving hundreds of Luftwaffe killer machines destroyed. We need some rest now before the final (?) battle.
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
736/366
32/65
153/44
446/0
Stavka
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m39 white death
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:41 pm
RE: RE:
This is absolutely absurd. I don't mind the posts of battle reports, but the Russians overruning the Germans in Poland in '42??? Gimme a break. I've never played Possum, but it appears about as play balanced as the Afghan soccer team playing Manchester United. Version 3.3 is very well play balanced if both guys play it fair, imho.
RE: RE:
This is pure massacre now. Poland is history, I'm at the gates of Berlin now:)
In possum if you do not hit hard the soviets in 41, then the only blizzard chance is to run. Rick did not hit me hard in 41, and tried to fight in the blizzards.
Most of my armor survived to see blizzard. In 2 months the werhmacht was crippled. From then only the supply stops the soviet attacks, as german infatry has been nearly completely destroyed. German armor has no flank support, and every panzer korps near the frontline gets encircled and eventualy destroyed. The Luftwaffe has the edge but cannot interdict because of the masses of soviet fighters.
In possum if you do not hit hard the soviets in 41, then the only blizzard chance is to run. Rick did not hit me hard in 41, and tried to fight in the blizzards.
Most of my armor survived to see blizzard. In 2 months the werhmacht was crippled. From then only the supply stops the soviet attacks, as german infatry has been nearly completely destroyed. German armor has no flank support, and every panzer korps near the frontline gets encircled and eventualy destroyed. The Luftwaffe has the edge but cannot interdict because of the masses of soviet fighters.
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Forward_March
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:40 am
RE: RE:
I've said it before, I'll say it again: Although Possum's map is great, and the historic names of some of the units are cool (forget the Roman numerals!), the rest is rubbish. After seeing air attacks on Russian airbases stopped by fighters that were supposed to be parked in nice rows waiting to be destroyed, I knew the game was way off.
The Germans in this mod are hampered in every conceivable way while the Russians are given every benefit.
...Possum must really hate the Germans...
The Germans in this mod are hampered in every conceivable way while the Russians are given every benefit.
...Possum must really hate the Germans...
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DavidFaust
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:30 am
- Location: Australia
RE: RE:
Possum can not be played with a newbe as the Germans player or the result in this post will be the outcome of the game. Like in history, Germany has massive amounts of odds to over come and only great leadership to battle it with. In my opinion , possum is the only chance a Russian player gets to see a 42 turn with me playing Germany!!! The only fault in this game and in WIR is the abality for airwings to gain exp from airlift missions, more so in possum as Russia has a greater number of fighter wings and fighters. I have had lots of problems advancing as germany in possum 41 but have always seemed to capture or get close to my objectives.
I have seen 14,000 russian squad destroyed in 1 week. Even thou this seems like alot, its only the number the Germans destroyed in Kiev pocket and then again in the Moscow battles. If the Germans failed to destroy these 1 million + Russin soldiers, how much better do you think the Russian winter campain would of been?
I have seen 14,000 russian squad destroyed in 1 week. Even thou this seems like alot, its only the number the Germans destroyed in Kiev pocket and then again in the Moscow battles. If the Germans failed to destroy these 1 million + Russin soldiers, how much better do you think the Russian winter campain would of been?
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m39 white death
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:41 pm
Moscow Variant
A much better alternative to playing Possum is to use Lorenzo's rules and forbid the use of air transport missions for training. The game is played until Moscow is captured, at which time the Germans win. However, the players then replay that turn, and Moscow and the rail line through Gorki are off limits until blizzards strike.
Basically, its like starting a '42 campaign in the winter of '41, giving the Soviets a chance to gain experience and organize. Call it the Moscow Variant. I've found that as long as the Russians hold Moscow and use their air assets properly (and not fritter them away), the Soviet player can offer credible, if not decisive, resistance in '42, even with heavy losses suffered in '41. The premise of this and any other alternative is that both guys play it straight up. Once somebody starts replaying turns for optimum outcome, no strategy or version of this game will work.
Basically, its like starting a '42 campaign in the winter of '41, giving the Soviets a chance to gain experience and organize. Call it the Moscow Variant. I've found that as long as the Russians hold Moscow and use their air assets properly (and not fritter them away), the Soviet player can offer credible, if not decisive, resistance in '42, even with heavy losses suffered in '41. The premise of this and any other alternative is that both guys play it straight up. Once somebody starts replaying turns for optimum outcome, no strategy or version of this game will work.
RE: Moscow Variant
In my opinion axis has only a chance to win when they take both Leningrad AND Moscow in the first summer. And normally axis should able to do this.
Yep, the soviet airforce is much stronger than in other versions. But houserules whitch forbid the training by airlifts with bombers for the soviets is a good possibility to prevent this. And the production of the Pe-3/Yer-2 must limited.
What do you think about the following rules? (Lorenzo`s houserules are fine, but for possum and for a more historical feeling they are better in my opinion)
1) After a corps get special supply, it can`t change it`s commanding HQ. After a corps gets special supply it`s not allowed to transfer or rail units in other corps.
2) A single target (corps, hq`s, cities) can bombed only three times in one turn.
3) To move a corps it must have at least one division sized unit in it.
4) An armored corps/army must have at least one Panzer/Tank, Motorized, PanzerGrenadier (PZG), Mechanized or Cavalry division in it to plot 5 squares of movement. If an armored corps does not have at least one mobile division in it, it can only plot 2 squares as if it were an infantry corps/army.
5) The West and Italian Front HQs must have at least two fighter air groups and one bomber air group in each at all times. The air groups can be set on training mode. The West Front air groups can be placed in OKW or OKH, but if not there then they must be in the West Front HQ.
6) All Soviet HQ's within 3 squares of the eastern edge of the map, are considered to be "in Siberia" and can't be attacked by player directed air missions, such as an airfield attacks. The air groups in these HQ's can't fight however, they must be in training mode only. This rule no longer applies once the HQ has one or more enemy corps adjacent to it, and after Jan 1, 1943.
7) A corps (isolatd or not), currently at Supply Level 0, can only move or attack towards its own front line, i.e., it can not continue attacking towards the enemy rear area.
8) Transport missions are only allowed for tranport squadrons (Ju-52, Li-2, Junkers and TB-3). It´s allowed to supply Corps with supply level “0” by bomber units at all times. Axis is allowed to supply all corps with bombers in 1941.
9) HQ`s can only contain four fighter squadrons. West or Italian Front, OKW, OKH, RVGK and HQ`s in Siberia con contain more fighter squadrons.
10) Both sides can only have up to four heavy tank factories in 41, five in 42, six in 43 and seven in 44. (all KV´s, JS´s, Tiger, Kingtiger,) Axis can only have a maximum of ten Panther factories at all time. At every time axis must have a minimum of four Pz-III, Pz-IV, or Pz38te factories.
12) Axis can only have three He-177 factories. At every time axis must have a minimum of 3 Me-109 factories. The maximum number of FW-190A factories is 5 for 1941 and 6 for 1942. After 1942 there is no limit for FW-190 factories.
13) Soviets can only have two Pe8/Yer-2 factories. At every time the soviets must have at least three different fighter or fighter-bomber factories. This exclude allied factories.
14) Both sides can only change one tank and one plane factory per round.
15) All finnish troops, Corps and the HQ are limited in their movement for the whole game. They must remain within the following boundaries : Vologda, Kalinin, Demyansk, Pskov. They can occupy these cities or be N, NW of them.
16) Blizzard 41/42 Limitations upon Soviets. At Nov 30, 41 the location of soviet controlled hexes are noted. Soviets are not allowed to attack any axis combat unit or to move westward until Dec 21, 41 (two turns). If Leningrad and Moscow is fallen they can move 12 hexes westward from this position. If one of the cities is fallen they can move 9 hexes, if none of the cities fallen they can move 6 hexes.They are not allowed to move further westward until Apr 1, 42.
17) Soviets not allowed to bomb any axis city until Aug 16, 42. Only Ploesti and Bucarest are allowed to bombed.
18) fighting to the end.
19) no cheating !!!
20) no saves during the turn.
21) An unsupplied HQ(ie surrounded by enemy controlled hexes), must be "captured" as soon as possible. This returns the HQ to the other side.
Yep, the soviet airforce is much stronger than in other versions. But houserules whitch forbid the training by airlifts with bombers for the soviets is a good possibility to prevent this. And the production of the Pe-3/Yer-2 must limited.
What do you think about the following rules? (Lorenzo`s houserules are fine, but for possum and for a more historical feeling they are better in my opinion)
1) After a corps get special supply, it can`t change it`s commanding HQ. After a corps gets special supply it`s not allowed to transfer or rail units in other corps.
2) A single target (corps, hq`s, cities) can bombed only three times in one turn.
3) To move a corps it must have at least one division sized unit in it.
4) An armored corps/army must have at least one Panzer/Tank, Motorized, PanzerGrenadier (PZG), Mechanized or Cavalry division in it to plot 5 squares of movement. If an armored corps does not have at least one mobile division in it, it can only plot 2 squares as if it were an infantry corps/army.
5) The West and Italian Front HQs must have at least two fighter air groups and one bomber air group in each at all times. The air groups can be set on training mode. The West Front air groups can be placed in OKW or OKH, but if not there then they must be in the West Front HQ.
6) All Soviet HQ's within 3 squares of the eastern edge of the map, are considered to be "in Siberia" and can't be attacked by player directed air missions, such as an airfield attacks. The air groups in these HQ's can't fight however, they must be in training mode only. This rule no longer applies once the HQ has one or more enemy corps adjacent to it, and after Jan 1, 1943.
7) A corps (isolatd or not), currently at Supply Level 0, can only move or attack towards its own front line, i.e., it can not continue attacking towards the enemy rear area.
8) Transport missions are only allowed for tranport squadrons (Ju-52, Li-2, Junkers and TB-3). It´s allowed to supply Corps with supply level “0” by bomber units at all times. Axis is allowed to supply all corps with bombers in 1941.
9) HQ`s can only contain four fighter squadrons. West or Italian Front, OKW, OKH, RVGK and HQ`s in Siberia con contain more fighter squadrons.
10) Both sides can only have up to four heavy tank factories in 41, five in 42, six in 43 and seven in 44. (all KV´s, JS´s, Tiger, Kingtiger,) Axis can only have a maximum of ten Panther factories at all time. At every time axis must have a minimum of four Pz-III, Pz-IV, or Pz38te factories.
12) Axis can only have three He-177 factories. At every time axis must have a minimum of 3 Me-109 factories. The maximum number of FW-190A factories is 5 for 1941 and 6 for 1942. After 1942 there is no limit for FW-190 factories.
13) Soviets can only have two Pe8/Yer-2 factories. At every time the soviets must have at least three different fighter or fighter-bomber factories. This exclude allied factories.
14) Both sides can only change one tank and one plane factory per round.
15) All finnish troops, Corps and the HQ are limited in their movement for the whole game. They must remain within the following boundaries : Vologda, Kalinin, Demyansk, Pskov. They can occupy these cities or be N, NW of them.
16) Blizzard 41/42 Limitations upon Soviets. At Nov 30, 41 the location of soviet controlled hexes are noted. Soviets are not allowed to attack any axis combat unit or to move westward until Dec 21, 41 (two turns). If Leningrad and Moscow is fallen they can move 12 hexes westward from this position. If one of the cities is fallen they can move 9 hexes, if none of the cities fallen they can move 6 hexes.They are not allowed to move further westward until Apr 1, 42.
17) Soviets not allowed to bomb any axis city until Aug 16, 42. Only Ploesti and Bucarest are allowed to bombed.
18) fighting to the end.
19) no cheating !!!
20) no saves during the turn.
21) An unsupplied HQ(ie surrounded by enemy controlled hexes), must be "captured" as soon as possible. This returns the HQ to the other side.
RE: RE:
Yes, I agree. I dont know what is your skill level, but if you are Josan caliber it is very hard to survive as soviets in 41 as even in possum. Free manouvering for germans and nearly none for soviets are a huge advantage. And the soviets must stop to fight after a while.
In possum it is possible for the soviets to nearly stop german interdictions the last 4-5 clear turns. Against an exellent player that means big losses but it is worth it. I agree with airlift though. I used it heavily that is why I could negate the Luftwaffe from around 41 august-september (which is nonsense).
In possum it is possible for the soviets to nearly stop german interdictions the last 4-5 clear turns. Against an exellent player that means big losses but it is worth it. I agree with airlift though. I used it heavily that is why I could negate the Luftwaffe from around 41 august-september (which is nonsense).
RE: Moscow Variant
We play like this do we? did you get my last turn?
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DavidFaust
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:30 am
- Location: Australia
RE: Moscow Variant
Possum air war is very different to standard WIR and if you use the WIR air tactics for possum, Germany will be doomed. As in histroy, in possum, the Russians can gain control of the air in certain sectors of the front if Germany lets them do so. Germany can not have complete control of the air in the east, but the Russians must commit there entire airforce to a sector to get great results. I have had many problems in the air war as Germany in possum, but have never lost control of the air in the east before 44.
With well setup German air HQ's, Russia has no chance to stop German air missions for more than 1 turn in clear weather.
I have found my greatest fear of the Russian air force is during the 41 blizzard turns but Russia is usally knocked out by then or there air force was waisted in pointless air battles in the summer months trying to save key areas.
Wieschi seems to have some very well thought out rules except for rule 16. I enjoy playing Germany during the blizzard turns!! ( except for the air war !!)
I believe the air war has way to much importance in WIR/Possum. I would like to see the second front rule that only allowed 1 of each air mission (eg. strat, ground attack and airlift) per HQ, or even better , limit it to only 1 air mission per HQ. This will stop alot of the problems we have in WIR/Possum with super strong air HQ's and will force players to spread there airforce out. this will make a much more enjoyable air war with sectors in your hands, and others in the enemy's hands.
With well setup German air HQ's, Russia has no chance to stop German air missions for more than 1 turn in clear weather.
I have found my greatest fear of the Russian air force is during the 41 blizzard turns but Russia is usally knocked out by then or there air force was waisted in pointless air battles in the summer months trying to save key areas.
Wieschi seems to have some very well thought out rules except for rule 16. I enjoy playing Germany during the blizzard turns!! ( except for the air war !!)
I believe the air war has way to much importance in WIR/Possum. I would like to see the second front rule that only allowed 1 of each air mission (eg. strat, ground attack and airlift) per HQ, or even better , limit it to only 1 air mission per HQ. This will stop alot of the problems we have in WIR/Possum with super strong air HQ's and will force players to spread there airforce out. this will make a much more enjoyable air war with sectors in your hands, and others in the enemy's hands.
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JagdFlanker
- Posts: 711
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 9:18 pm
- Location: Halifax, Canada
RE: Moscow Variant
i agree totally with the rule 16 comment. if you want to see how to play germany during the blizzards play against mr. m39 white death - he's got it figured out to a science!! you'l be lucky to shatter 3 of his armies throughout the entire winter!
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m39 white death
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:41 pm
RE: Moscow Variant
Thank's for the compliment Victor...you must owe me money! I just play the Germans historically in blizzard of '41. That is, fortify key cities and the hex behind the city to protect its supply. The German troops in cities during blizzard don't suffer the readiness penalty and can really fight. Then, special supply and air supply them with swarms of Ju-52's which you should KEEP producing for this very reason. You can retreat/shatter advancing Soviet armies if they outrun their supply, and the only way to take the city is with mass, heavy assault at full supply. Right before this occurs, rail the guys out. Even if you do get surrounded, you can usually hold that city for an additional 2 or 3 turns if you keep it well supplied with Ju-52's. You'll lose all the guys there, but you'll inflict heavy casualties on the Ruskies. Also, by doing so you've delayed soviet rail from advancing for 3 or 4 turns, and probably stalled the Soviet advance around Smolensk or a little further back.
Some guys try to hold a line in blizzard '41, but to me this is really hard to do. Once the line begins to break, you gotta march your guys outta there and lose all their heavy weapons in the process. Your infantry corps will suffer under soviet attrition attacks in '42 without lots of artillery.
Most guys scrap the Ju-52 immediately, but did you know that each Ju-52 delivers TWICE the supply tonnage of a Ju88? Keep making 'em as the Germans, and by blizzard '41 you'll have 4 full wings of them that can keep your hedgehog cities well supplied during the winter and really slow down the Soviet advance with minimal casualties.
Some guys try to hold a line in blizzard '41, but to me this is really hard to do. Once the line begins to break, you gotta march your guys outta there and lose all their heavy weapons in the process. Your infantry corps will suffer under soviet attrition attacks in '42 without lots of artillery.
Most guys scrap the Ju-52 immediately, but did you know that each Ju-52 delivers TWICE the supply tonnage of a Ju88? Keep making 'em as the Germans, and by blizzard '41 you'll have 4 full wings of them that can keep your hedgehog cities well supplied during the winter and really slow down the Soviet advance with minimal casualties.
RE: RE:
1942. july 26.
Clear
The germans are throwing everything on the Oder front, and as result 2 of our attacks were stopped there. In the Breslau area 4 infantry and 2 panzer korpses were encircled. Both the western and the southern front shattered so we sucpesct a betrayal by our "allies". We suspect the even the afrika korps is defending Berlin right now...
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
1189/338
162/168
366/32
7/11
Stavka
Clear
The germans are throwing everything on the Oder front, and as result 2 of our attacks were stopped there. In the Breslau area 4 infantry and 2 panzer korpses were encircled. Both the western and the southern front shattered so we sucpesct a betrayal by our "allies". We suspect the even the afrika korps is defending Berlin right now...
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
1189/338
162/168
366/32
7/11
Stavka
RE: RE:
Well, the Luftwaffe threw everything left against the shock army west of Breslau. After the Soviet lines were turned into craters, the German forces trapped to the east strolled back toward the west. Everything has been massed around Berlin.
Axis/Soviet
30/775 Squads
7/281 AFVs
33/808 Guns
306/427 Planes
Axis/Soviet
30/775 Squads
7/281 AFVs
33/808 Guns
306/427 Planes
Rick Bancroft
Semper Fi
Semper Fi
RE: RE:
1942. august 02.
Clear
The red air force still can count to seven correctly, leaving troops without air cover. The tank army commanders bitched about this continously as they catched the retreating germans in the Breslau area and killed them all (except the one panzer korps who ran too fast). Stettin has fallen as well as its defenders. In the south there are only resistance in the Rumanian oil fields. Between south Poland and Ploesti there are no germans, and our troops are marching through unopposed.
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
3310/764
905/365
1226/146
132/153
Stavka
Clear
The red air force still can count to seven correctly, leaving troops without air cover. The tank army commanders bitched about this continously as they catched the retreating germans in the Breslau area and killed them all (except the one panzer korps who ran too fast). Stettin has fallen as well as its defenders. In the south there are only resistance in the Rumanian oil fields. Between south Poland and Ploesti there are no germans, and our troops are marching through unopposed.
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
3310/764
905/365
1226/146
132/153
Stavka
RE: RE:
1942. august 9.
Clear
The battle for Berlin has begun with mixed results. The germans fight on with firm moral even when encircled. 3 german panzer korps stopped our tank armies trying to destroy them. Only one surrendered. As result our tankers are in vulnerable position. We might loose some in the probably last german counterattack next week.
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
1679/1241
774/320
1121/94
223/154
Stavka
Clear
The battle for Berlin has begun with mixed results. The germans fight on with firm moral even when encircled. 3 german panzer korps stopped our tank armies trying to destroy them. Only one surrendered. As result our tankers are in vulnerable position. We might loose some in the probably last german counterattack next week.
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
1679/1241
774/320
1121/94
223/154
Stavka
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EvilWeevil
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: West Yorkshire / England
RE: RE:
what are the total losses so far for both sides ?
I didn't know it then, but looking back, in hindsight, I realize that when I was younger I could see into the future. Now I'm getting all my premonitions as flashbacks!