What was the computer thinking?

[Nikademus]

Think of her as an Austro-Hungarian battleship, destined to become the flagship of a new Croat. navy, but pre-empted by some spoilsport Italians determined not to see the AH "threat" morph into another form.

[;)]

[Milman]

That was not Cruisers it was italian damaged destroyer :

When we engaged that destroyer at such close range there wasn't a shot fired from her, her guns remained fore and aft." From the diary of Chief Signals Yeoman Watkins, BEM, HMAS Stuart.

British have carier in that battle and italians ships didn't have radar .

[pfnognoff]

I think the point of this thread was that Hiei and Kirishima, while protecting carriers, would run away from Viribus Unitis, and even a damaged Italian destroyer according to the current game model [:D]

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Grunty

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

It's historically accurate:
On 31st October 1918, the Austro-Hungarian fleet was handed over to the representatives of the People's Council of the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs (from Zagreb). The Allies states did not recognise the surrender of the Austro-Hungarian fleet to the People's Council of the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs, but divided the fleet among themselves (the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes got only a few small and old-fashioned units). Early next morning two Italian officers, determined to stop the transfer even though an armistice had been signed, entered Pola harbour on a 'human torpedoe'. They approached the unsuspecting ship, full of Croations celebrating their new-found independence, attached two mines to her hull and crept away. When they exploded Viribus Unitis sank, taking with her 350 people....
from S.M.S. Viribus Unitis 3D Project

So much of a Croatian navy .... besides don't you forget: Croatia was not an independent state at the time, it was a part of Kingdom of Serbs,Croats and Slovenes --- so at best (for those few hours that floated) it was a ship of newly created kingdom's (and this includes Serbs and Slovenes) navy, no?..

"irrelevant" is correct but dates are a bit skewed while "Grunty" is wrong.

The independent Croatian state did indeed exist after collapse of Austrian Hungarian empire but it was decided (by parliament) that instead of independence it would join into new state (together with Slovenia and Serbia).

The "Viribus Unitis" was sunk before the new state (kingdom of Serbians, Croats and Slovenians) was effectively constituted and at the moment of sinking ship was showing Croatian flag.

As for WWI (and before) the only sea Austro-Hungarian empire possessed belonged to kingdom of Croatia (as part of empire of course) and majority of sailors (and all ports) were Croatian.

BTW, when "Viribus Unitis" sunk the admiral (he was Croat by nationality and admiral in Austro-Hungarian navy) on board choose to die with his ship. There is military cemetery in Pula (Pola as Italians call it) where his grave is (together with other killed sailors - near by is German military graveyard as well).


Here is link about "Viribus Unitis" and her 3 sisters:

http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/bunker/5294/main.html


Leo "Apollo11"

[Grunty]

Wasn't Pola (or Pula) Italian port at the end of the war (Italians gained her with other parts of A.H. empire's territory)....?

[Milman]

Yes , but during the war Serbian army liberate Pula (Pola) and take all A.O. ships from there . And that is not Croat ship , that is Yugoslav Royal Navy ship . Serbs doesnt have ports and that is reason why Croat sailors was on boat . Ship is Serbian war loot .

[Arsaces]

ORIGINAL: Milman

Yes , but during the war Serbian army liberate Pula (Pola) and take all A.O. ships from there . And that is not Croat ship , that is Yugoslav Royal Navy ship . Serbs doesnt have ports and that is reason why Croat sailors was on boat . Ship is Serbian war loot .

As has been already pointed out by "Irrelevant" and "Apollo XI" it was forces loyal to the revolutionary government in Zagreb who had control of the port. Yugoslavia did not exist in 1918, it only came into existence after the parliament of Croatia and Slovenia voted to join Serbia to create a new state. Serbia, which had effectively been knocked out of the war, did not "liberate" Croatia.

Cheers.

[Arsaces]

ORIGINAL: Grunty
... those cowardly Italians ...

I don't believe that "cowardly" is the best way to describe the italian officers who sank the Viribus Unitis ! Racial stereotypes are not very useful when one considers military history.

[Oznoyng]

ORIGINAL: strawbuk

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, The computer was thinking "10010101101010010101101000101010110101010101110101010101101"

Not to your best, I humbly suggest ... (note to Dr Pasternaki - even Mog affected by 'Patchless Syndrome').

Mogami doesn't have time for any patch syndrome. He has 8 PBEM games going.

[targul]

If you had to think only in 1's and 0's you wouldn't be too smart either.

Jim

[Milman]

Serbia, which had effectively been knocked out of the war, did not "liberate" Croatia.

And who liberate Croatia ? Serbian army was never knocked out of war . In 1915. Serbian army retreat in Greece and afther regrouping they continue to fight . Solun front was broken afther asault of Serbian army on Kajmakcalan (today in Macedonia) . Afther that battle Serbian army was on ofense to the end of war . At the end of WW1 they were 80km south of Wiena .

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Milman

Serbia, which had effectively been knocked out of the war, did not "liberate" Croatia.

And who liberate Croatia ? Serbian army was never knocked out of war . In 1915. Serbian army retreat in Greece and afther regrouping they continue to fight . Solun front was broken afther asault of Serbian army on Kajmakcalan (today in Macedonia) . Afther that battle Serbian army was on ofense to the end of war . At the end of WW1 they were 80km south of Wiena .

What?

Ahm.... they were in Serbia and not 80 km from Wienna... The Austrian-Hungarian empire crumbled from within and not from outside...


Leo "Apollo11"

[Milman]

This is about Solun front :

http://www.principlesofwar.com/scenarios/19thc/balkans/Kajmakcalan.htm

[Arsaces]

ORIGINAL: Milman

Serbia, which had effectively been knocked out of the war, did not "liberate" Croatia.

And who liberate Croatia ? Serbian army was never knocked out of war . In 1915. Serbian army retreat in Greece and afther regrouping they continue to fight . Solun front was broken afther asault of Serbian army on Kajmakcalan (today in Macedonia) . Afther that battle Serbian army was on ofense to the end of war . At the end of WW1 they were 80km south of Wiena .

Serbia was completely occupied by the end of 1915. The Serbian army in Salonica was placed under French command, reequipped with French weapons purchased by British banks who were in turn financed by american loans...
The Serbian troops were part of a multinational force composed of French, British and even Russian soldiers. In 1918, the Bulgarian front collapsed which allowed the Allies to reenter Serbia.

The Serbian army only reentered Serbia the way Général Leclerc reentered France - as the component of a much greater alliance. They retook Belgrade - the way Leclerc 'retook' Paris.

Never got close to Vienna - or Pola or Zagreb...

Cheers,

[esteban]

The independent Croatian state did indeed exist after collapse of Austrian Hungarian empire but it was decided (by parliament) that instead of independence it would join into new state (together with Slovenia and Serbia).


Leo "Apollo11"

Ouch! That didn't turn out to be a very good decision!

[Milman]

The Serbian army only reentered Serbia the way Général Leclerc reentered France - as the component of a much greater alliance. They retook Belgrade - the way Leclerc 'retook' Paris.

Did you read about Solun front or what ?

[Grunty]

so... you can see from all those different replies....there was no croatian dreadnought anywhere in history (or serbian)...... but who cares, anyway.... maybe I should just start signing my posts with: " Prinz Eugen ... american cruiser" just because it was confiscated at the end of WW2 and later bombed in Bikini atol for experimental purposes [>:] .. or even better :" Roma" german battleship, because Germans confiscated it from Italians in 1943 (or was it the allies? ..I don't remember now)...

..I guess some persons just like to invent things to magnify importance of themselves or their state..
..if you ask me that ship wasn't either croatian or serbian nor italian.... it was captured Austro-Hungarian. ship which sank immediatly after war so ...

the point is obvious I think.... [>:]

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Arsaces

Serbia was completely occupied by the end of 1915. The Serbian army in Salonica was placed under French command, reequipped with French weapons purchased by British banks who were in turn financed by american loans...
The Serbian troops were part of a multinational force composed of French, British and even Russian soldiers. In 1918, the Bulgarian front collapsed which allowed the Allies to reenter Serbia.

The Serbian army only reentered Serbia the way Général Leclerc reentered France - as the component of a much greater alliance. They retook Belgrade - the way Leclerc 'retook' Paris.

Never got close to Vienna - or Pola or Zagreb...

Cheers,

This is 100% correct and accurate.


Leo "Apollo11"

[Milman]

..if you ask me that ship wasn't either croatian or serbian nor italian.... it was captured Austro-Hungarian. ship which sank immediatly after war so ...

That is my point also . But we change the subject on other thing . Apollo 11 claimed that this ship was croatian .

[Taiyo]

is that really so important to you, Grunty? and why?

oh, btw., u'r waaaay off topic!