Flanker Mod 6.22.41

War in Russia is a free update of the old classic, available in our Downloads section.
Denniss
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RE: Tanks !

Post by Denniss »

Some thoughts about Pz-II to MarderII and Pz38/t) to MarderIII and T60/70 to Su76 :

Let T70 upgrade to T34/76M42 and give T60/T70 only one single factory .
The second factory originally assigned to T60/70 shoud start as Su76 factory with capacity 40

Nearly the same with PzII and Pz38 :
Do not produce Pz-II at all and factory appears as size 35 Marder-I/II factory in january 1942 to compensate the lost PzII procduction - it's possible Marder1 already exist at this date based on captured french/polish vehicles and Marder2 should not start to appear much later .

What should we do with Pz38/t) and MarderIII ?
-> Tank is usable in the first 6 months but sheduled to be replaced by Pt-IIIj-60
Maybe give extra 300(or 400) Pz38(t)f to pool and factory in Prage appears as size 25 MarderIII fatory at default date

Obwir : Today fixed an annoying "Divide Error" after some hours playtesting - I just forgot to give Panther the correct upgrade path to Panther-G (moved slot) so each time a Panther factory arrived this "Divide Error" appeared .
Will now triplecheck all paths/slots/units to prevent future errors .

What do you like more :
Me109E without upgrade path but hardcoded Fw190 replacement or Me109 to Fw190 path ?
-> hardcode does not work as 190A5 takes 190 slot

The small sized Ju88 factory in Munich should be Me-109 .
One of the later appearing Me109G factory should be changed to Ju87D - one factory is not enough to fill the units and to compensate losses (and you need Fw190F factories,too as Ju87G will later upgrade to them and there are no new Fw190F factories) .

Another thought to ME-262 : Remove 2 factories and switch one factory to Fw190F(with earlier arrival) and let Me-410 upgrade to Me-262 (historical upgrade)

Hmmm - I am missing the T60/70 to Su76 conversion - was it removed in later WIR versions ?
PzII/38(t) to Marder seem to work but only in the first one or two months of 1943.
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Denniss
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RE: Tanks !

Post by Denniss »

Me-109F renamed to Me-109F/2 as it's data was used and changed cannon to 4 - 15mm+2x7.92mm
Axis level bombers moved to #63 and higher
Mig3 pool reduced to 200 and Mig1 increased to 100
Mig3 production increased to 4 - pre mass production
He-111 upgrades to Ju-188 - He-111 is considered too slow and not enough bomb load
Do17Z pool upgraded to 400 - they were to be phased-out and a lot of them had already been changed to He-111 or Ju88
Do17Z durability upgraded by two points to 34 - was a little bit tougher
Added Ju188 with better MVR/Dogfight and +10 range and +2 durab at 1/1943 and all other data the same as Ju88
Renamed the second ZG26 arriving later in the game to ZG76
created russian C47/Li2 transport aircraft and added a factory in Kazan arriving 1/42 to produce C47/Li2 - TB3 upgrades to C47 now
Ju52/3m cannon changed to 4 - 1x12.7+2x7.92
Ju52/3m load changed to 2.5t = 55(in lbs)
TB3 load changed to 150(in lbs)
Me109G6 cost changed to 3 - mass production
Ju87B cost increased to 5 - slow production
Ju87B/D cannon rating reduced to 2 - 2x7.92mm and defensive armament not included
Ital fighter cannon upgrade to 6 - some had 2x12mm but many had 2x12+2x7mm guns
Axis fighter cannon upgraded to 7 - some old ones with 2x12 or 2x12+2x7mm but some with 20+4x7mm(D.520)or 2x20+2x12(or 2x7mm)(IAR)
P38 MVR changed back to 21 - too good against Me109/Fw190 in playtesting
La5FN/LA7/Yak3/Yak7/all Yak9 cost reduced by one point
Il2M3/Il10 classified as Tank Destroyer but leaving Il2 as Ground attack
Il2M3/Il10 MVR changed a little downwards to 16/18
Fw190F renamed to Fw190F8 to represent the Fighter-bomber version of the Fw190A8 with adjusted time of arrival
SG units set to arrive with Fw190F have been adjusted to arrive earlier with Ju87 types and at least one with HS129 - the Ju87 will later upgrade to Fw190F
Fw190A5/A8 cost changed to 4 and Fw190A increased to 5 - mass production effects for the later models and production problems for the first series (and preventing the player from producing too much of them too fast)
Hs129 durability set back to 40 - plane armor was good but the engines did not like getting fired at
Plane units shuffled around(except fin/rum/hun/ital) to have them ordered from bottom to top :
Transport - SG/Stg (DB/TD later Fw190F) - ZG/SKG(Me110) - level bombers - fighters

It seems there has to be a plane in Slot#61 or game hangs at german production with divide error
It seems tank slots #64-69 are occupied with symbols for german infantry and for russian art/Flak/AT/recon/infantry

Splitted 20 point Heavy Industry in Berlin into 2x9 points to increase chance of growth and to compensate for Warszaw a little
Splitted 15 point Heavy Industry in Essen into 9/5 points to increae chance of growth and to compensate for Warszaw a little
Heavy Industry in Wuppertal/Cologne reduced from 10 to 9
Heavy Industry shedule to arrive as new factory modified to have one size-5 and one size-1 factory arriving 1942 - 1x5+2x1 in 1943 and 3x5+2x1 in 1944
Added Heavy Industry size 5 in Warszaw to represent industrial capability of Poland
Russian Heavy Industry moved from german slot #148/149 to russian slots 150+ - maybe an error or just cosmetic
StugIIIb factory in Leipzig changed to StugIIIf appearing 3/1942
MarderIII factory in Stettin changed to StugIIIg appearing 9/1942
T60 factory in Kazan changed to size-30 Su76 appearing in 1/1943
Me109G factory in Frankfurt to Ju87D and arriva set 20 turns earlier
Me262 factory in Leipzig changed to Fw190F8 with arrivaldate 20 turns earlier
Me262 factory in Kassel changed to He177 arriving mid/1943
Me262 factory in Dresden removed
Hs129 factory in Stettin removed
PzIIf factory in Berlin changed to size 35 MarderI/II appearing 1/1942
Pz38(t)f factory in Prague changed to size 25 MarderIII appearing 3/1942
Tiger factories in Kassel and Wuppertal removed - too much of them existing
Re-arranged factories to have them in order : HI-Art-Tank-Plane
Multiple factories of the same type in the same city sorted to be on nearby slots

JSU152 cost changed to 6 - similar to JSU122 already costing 6
T70 changed to arrive 1/1942 for later upgrade to T34/76 M42
Pz-IIf upgrade path changed to Pz-IVe/f
Pz38(t)a upgrade path changed to Pz-IIIh/j42
Pt38(t)f upgrade path changed to Pz-IIIj-60
Pz-IVe/f cost changed to 5 to reflect slower production 1941
StuGIIIb cost increased to 4 to reflect slower production in 1941
Panther-G cost changed to 5 to reflect mass production in 1944
Tank unit slot#223 changed from Panther to Nashorn as it's a JPz unit - error ?
PzIIf pool changed to 500 and Pz38(t) to 300 to compensate losses due to factories appearing 1942 as MarderII/MarderIII
Marder II renamed to Marder I/II to represent both types - arrival date set to 1/1942
Some SS Pz Bn with PzIVh arriving earlier than tank arrival changed to PzIVg
Recon/Armored Car to attack3 and defense 2
KV2 upgrade path changed to KV85
Su122 upgrade path change to Su152 to JSU152
Su76 upgrade path changed to JSU122
Panther/Panther-G cost changed from 6/5 to 7/6
Tiger/Koenigstiger cost changed from 7/9 to 8/9

KG60 changed from Ju88 to Do17Z
KG66 changed from Do17Z to He177 with 10 planes
JV44 changed to 90 experience and 100 planes
JG4/JG6/JG300 changed from Fw190 to A5
JG106-110 changed from Fw190 to A8

Attached :
My modded OBWIR mostly with equipment data/factory changes
-> remove the .txt from the end and decompress using Winzip or Winrar
Either replace original files from Flanker Mod or -better - copy your existing Flanker Mod directory and use this copy to test my changes
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crusher
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RE: Tanks !

Post by crusher »

denniss i would like to try your mod but i can not get it to download i get a message that says cannot find site i have downloaded other things from matrix with no problems.
Denniss
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RE: Tanks !

Post by Denniss »

Click on Attachment then right click on obwir.zip.txt and save Link/target as and save it on your HDD .
Then rename it to obwirmod.zip

This forum only allows .txt files and some other types but no .zip files .

IF it still does not work please send me a PM with your mail and I'll mail it to you
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JagdFlanker
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RE: possum mod!

Post by JagdFlanker »

if you download WINRAR it sees it as a zip file instantly with no need for name changing.

thanks for the new obwir deniss! i am currently well on my way to getting a basic version of v0.2 up and running, whereby i'll post it for you when i get it going. i took the hq's, groups, lcu's, subs, and airgroups from the possum obwir and pasted it on to the 3.3 obwir, so now there's a LOT of cleaning up to do! having small problems with the aircraft part, but it's just a matter of playing with it until i find out the problem. looks pretty good so far! i plan on having far less factories in the next version so i kept the 3.3 factories and will edit from there to make it easier.

just to let you know as well it is inadvisable to add new afv's to the database after the inf/AT/arty since they appear AFTER those ikons in the game (which looks silly) and most importantly once you change a Bn to that type it may never be manually upgraded to anything else (like the StuG IIIb currently). i have the JagdTiger in a spot there currently, but i have little fear that any game will make it to mid 1944 anyways, and once you change a Bn to JagdTiger there's no other afv you'd want to change it to anyways!!
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RE: possum mod!

Post by Denniss »

Bugfixed version of my OBWIR Data mod - forgot to change some symbols back .
Just to use for testing the tank/plane data and how they work in combat

Please give me some feedback about the new Tank/Plane data !
I'd like to have some suggestions/opinions how good or how bad they are !
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JagdFlanker
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RE: possum mod!

Post by JagdFlanker »

of interest, i stumbled over this on the net:

Bf 109 or Me 109 ?
What is right: Bf 109, Bf-109, BF-109, Bf109, Me 109, Me-109, ME 109, or ME109?

In 1938, during the production of the C version, Messerschmitt's global reputation has grown to the point where the Air Ministry suggested changing his company's name from Bayerische Flugzeugwerke to Messerchmitt A.G.. Subsequent aircraft would be identified with the "Me" prefix; those already in production, the 109, would retain the "Bf" designator. Nonetheless, many people began referring to the "Me 109," including the USAAF; contemporary air combat reports are filled with references to the "Me 109."

In German usage at the time, "Bf 109" was correct. No dash, lower case "f," not "Me 109," and including a space between "Bf" and "109." But confusion persists to this day. Try a web search on "Messerschmitt Me 109." You'll get almost as many hits as with the proper abbreviation.

http://www.acepilots.com/planes/main.html#top
Denniss
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RE: possum mod!

Post by Denniss »

Everybody should know the Me109 just like the Spitfire or the P51/P47 .
Bf109 may not be so well known

Just leave it as Me-109
-> Me for their famous name and the - as all planes have it
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Denniss
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RE: possum mod!

Post by Denniss »

Hmmmm - it seems I have to have a small look on Italian bombers - the mixed Bombers do have not enough bomb load to represent SM79 and BR.20 as main italian bombers
SM79 should have ~1200Kg and BR20 ~1600Kg
SM79 range is ~2000KM
BR20 range is ~3000km
Data taken from Lemairesoft now trying to confirm

Maybe range has to be adjusted a little to 31-38 and bomb load set to 1400Kg = 21.6 = 22 (grain conversion not lbs)
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JagdFlanker
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RE: possum mod!

Post by JagdFlanker »

actually it might be an option to rename mixed to 'axis bombers' and use it for both the axis and italians - it would stink to have both bombers use 1 ikon! and perhaps it could use mostly italian stats to give the finnish, romanian, and hungarian bombers the benefit of the doubt - the axis (mixed) bombers are not upgraded all through the war!

things are a little slow right now in regards to my programming the new dbase, but i'll be back on track within a week. in the meantime i have been looking at the map a little and trying to 'clean' it up a bit - i found a copy of WiR 3.0 and wow, is the map different!! i'm trying to vary my new map off that one, since that more represents our lord Gary Grigsby's vision, and some of the changes made to it since the original map seem more interesting and perhaps optional now! more in the future...
Denniss
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RE: possum mod!

Post by Denniss »

Changed the Mixed bomber stats to :
Mvr-Can-ld-rng-dur-arv-cst-upg-gfx
9-0-22-35-30-0-11-254-25

changed some mvr of other bombers as some look too good and some a little too bad :
Do17Z to 12
He111H to 11
Ju88 to 13
Do217 to 16
leaving He177 at 19 and Ju188 at 17 (faster than Do217)
Ju87 B/D/G changed to 6/9/8

Change was done because even low experienced fighters should be able to get hits on a Ju87 or He-111
Do17Z was upgraded because it was possible to use a shallow dive to get more speed to avoid contact with some slower fighters
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ancient doctor
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RE: possum mod!

Post by ancient doctor »

Sorry to ask i dump question but what exactly your mode do?
I mean i saw that you have changed stats for some units and their icons(?)but is anything else included in the mod(a new editor)?
Denniss
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RE: possum mod!

Post by Denniss »

Map will be modified
Better looking plane/tank icons
New plane types with changed stats to be more historical
Some new tanks with slightly changed stats to be more historical
Some units changes to be more historical (some Inf divs to Motorized/Mountain and others)
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Denniss
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RE: possum mod!

Post by Denniss »

Further investigation into russian light/obsolete tanks gives the following :

T26/BT5/BT7/T70 use more or less the same 45mm gun and this should be equal to the german/czech 37mm gun so they should be all rated with attack 6
T28 should have used the same 76mm gun as the T35 so their attack rating should be the same . It had a very short barrel so attack rating should be no more than 6 - somehow comparable to the short 75mm gun in early Pz-IV/StuG
T70 armor thickness is between Pz-IIIg and h but it's sloped so defense should be 7
T28 armor is comparable to T35 (later models better than T35) so defense upgraded to 7
T26 looks to be comparable to Pz-IIf or even lower - should be rated as 4 not 5
The KV2 is underrated in atack - imagine what a big hole a 152mm shell punches into a Pz-II/III/IV (or even what a near miss does)
-> attack should be upgraded to 12 (SU152/JSU152 with newer/longer gun are rated 16)
T34/KV with 76mm gun look underrated in attack - they should all get a +1 in attack to be more effective even against later german tanks
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JagdFlanker
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RE: ze map

Post by JagdFlanker »

well, i'v been really busy the last few weeks so i havn't been able to do a lot of work, but here and there i have been working on the map and using a few basic guidelines i'v revamped the map much more than i ever figured i would! i'm sure the change will be a shock at first, but after staring at it for the last few days and making adjustments i think it looks pretty sharp, and a little more practical for all the campaigns, not just 1941. my very first priority was to slow down the axis advance during summer 1941 - i realize that the loss of moscow in 1941 is not necisarily a-historical as we are 'correcting hitler's mistakes', but i think PBEM games would be a lot more fun if there was a greater chance for the soviets to defend moscow! one thing to remember is that this change works both ways - it's harder for the soviets to advance towards berlin from the gates of moscow, thereby perhaps extending the game somewhat. my hope is that these new rails will encourage the soviets to start defending further west than they currently do during the summer 1941 to stall the germans and perhaps help moscow from falling in 1941. defending further west of moscow will increase soviet casualties, which should be offset by an extra 150-175 soviet population. germany will get an extra 35-40 population as well, to help recover from winter '41 if it goes badly. of coarse, it has to be tested to see if i get the desired results...

i think it looks great, and although it looks sorta like the possum map i ensured it looks very neat and tidy so the change is not so obvious!
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JagdFlanker
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RE: ze map

Post by JagdFlanker »

Flanker Map

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Denniss
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RE: ze map

Post by Denniss »

What do you think about some new HI factories ?
At least the Czech should get a 3 or 4 HI factory and the others maybe 1 or 2 sized ones to represent their national Heavy Industry

I'd say : Czech 3, Rumania 2, Bulgaria/Hungaria 1 each
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JagdFlanker
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RE: ze map

Post by JagdFlanker »

i can't see why not, as long as it adds up to the same total (72 or 73?). i added new heavies late in the war for germany so this might be a better way of showing that increase. and with more factories germany's industry should grow a little faster, which i can't argue against!

i'm going to start working on the new dbase soon - you got your latest obwir posted? btw as far as i can tell the Fw 190A5 should actually be the A4 - your date of entry is for the A4, and the A5 is identical except for the fusalage being lengthened by 6 inches to better accomadate the new water-methenol injector equipped engine which was already equipping the A4.

i like the idea of the Pz-IIIh/j then the IIIj/60. also the Marder I/II. in this spirit i also changed Pz-IVh to IVh/j.
sorry, i disagree with the Li-2 - i got room for 1 more ikon, and it's going to beef up the new Fw-190 upgrades. also when i think about playing WiR i never think about supply, just military conquest and the tools which will directly allow me to acheive my goals. air supply comes in handy sometimes, but...
same story for the ju-188 - it doesn't have any quality that makes it any different than the Do-217, as it has a little more range and a little less load. i'm happy that you created it, though, so that i could judge whether it has a chance in the game, since i was very curious! if i had extra ikon spaces, then mabe... (i know, it COULD use the Ju 88 ikon...)

i played with the map graphics and unit map ikons and prettied then up this weekend. there's still a lot i would like to do with those, but that's a much, much later priority so i cut myself off at what i did in the last few days. the trees i played with a lot and although they look better independantly, they look a little more seperate when grouped with other tree hexes so that is a project to be finished later! i didn't like the red soviet hex ownership tiles i had in the mod so i made those into red stars and the german's hexes have the german cross on them. it looks REALLY good, and the best part it's easier to read the 'axis review/sov review' squares now compared to 3.3. also in the original 3.3 there are 2 bad map tiles on the strategic map - one wasn't used until i made my new map (it's the backwards river hex by leningrad in my old map posts), and the other is a shore hex used on the bottom of the boot of italy (also posted on the old maps), so they are both fixed.

i will be posting it in the next 24 hours -> http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/larryaub/

note the new map symbols are useable on ALL versions of WiR!!
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RE: ze map

Post by Denniss »

There is no need for a new Icon and Fw190A4/5 or even A8 .
For Li2 try to use the Pacwar C47 icon
Ju188 should use the Ju88 icon

I created the Li2/C47 to have an upgrade for the TB3 transports - I like to have my level bombers drop bombs on the enemy and not supply for my troops being isolated or an very low supply .

I created the Ju188 to have an upgrade path for the slow/small payload He111 to a faster and better loaded Ju188 as well as the good Ju88 upgrade to this plane
-> Ju88 was produced all the time in war but later models mostly night fighters or flying bombs (Mistel component)
Do217 production ceased mid/1943 - maybe the Ju188 should be delayed to this date with the Do217 upgrading to the Ju188 or delay He177 to mid/1943 and let Do217 uprade to this plane .
-> Do217 is a heavy medium bomber and upgrade to heavy bomber might be more historical than going back to a medium bomber
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crusher
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RE: possum mod!

Post by crusher »

so how is your mod commimg along i like what you have done so far looking foward to your next version thanks
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