Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

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Q-Ball
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Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by Q-Ball »

Strategy Question: Has anyone tried or thought about an advance from Northern Australia and into the SRA? Basically, Timor/Amboina/Kendari, etc. etc.? I would welcome everyone's thoughts, but seems to me there are some things to recommend it:

1. Darwin does represent a reasonable base of operations. It can expand to a decent size base, and is connected by rail (at least in the game anyway) to supply sources in Australia. So logistically you don't have a problem.
2. The Japanese MUST defend the SRA. The Allies CANNOT be allowed to base B-17s/24s within range of key oil resources. For this reason, at a minimum a successful advance or an attempt to advance will draw significant Japanese resources to defend the area.
3. Provides the most direct route to interdicting the SRA; maybe you can even use B-29;s before you have the Marianas

I can see right away some challenges with this strategy:

1. It's a long way from Pearl Harbor, so any carriers operating in this area are too far away from the Central Pacific to also operate there. (On the other hand, it might provide useful employment from a couple RN carriers)
2. The distance between bases in Eastern DEI makes it more difficult to "hop" from base to base using LBA as cover. An advantage in the Solomons is that the Allies can make headway without ANY carriers at all most of the time.

Still this idea intrigues me. I don't advocate ignoring the Solomons, but maybe opening a "second front". In all of the Campaign Starts after '41, Timor is lightly defended, and several tempting bases (Kai Island for example) are completely empty. Historically, the Allies never budged from Darwin.

Thoughts Anyone?
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by Platoonist »

Interesting strategy. I used to do this in PacWar. I would hold on to Timor using one of the early U.S.Divisions. Then using nearby Darwin I slowly built it up with supplies as a base and used it as a springboard to commence a slow re-conquest of the Dutch East Indies. The sad part is the AI took no notice of this at all. Only when I re-took Java and started bombing the hell outta Pelembang did the AI Combined Fleet suddenly decide the Solomons weren't more important. By then it was too late. LBA pretty much chewed them up.

It's ahistorical stratgies like this that the AI probably can't handle. Would be an interesting option in a PBEM game. This is also why some are clamoring to get the map of Australia changed so that Northern Australia and Darwin are more limited in what you can do there.
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by Mr.Frag »

It is very dependant on who you are playing against. What you need to keep in mind is that city attacks on Darwin will score points for Japan. Against a human, I would expect to see Darwin getting hammered for the strategic points. It is very tough to counter this type of attack from a crippled base.

This is one of the key methods that Japan can advance their score without loosing anything. Capturing bases is a temporary score increase, the score will shift back once the Allies kick you back out. Strategic Bombing points are permanent. They can not be taken away.

Derby, Darwin and Cookstown all have industry waiting for bombs. Cookstown requires Port Moresby to base out of, Derby and Darwin are far more exposed and have a much longer supply chain.
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by rogueusmc »

As for the CVs, you can base them out of Sydney just as easily as you can PH.
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Q-Ball
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by Q-Ball »

Probably gamey against the AI. But valid tactic perhaps a human, which is what I was thinking of.

At a minimum, if I am the Japanese player, even a HINT that the allied player might do this would force me to send an IJA Division to garrison Timor. I would also commit a few more resources to building Amboina into a major base, one that could be quickly re-inforced by Bettys and Zeros at any sign of trouble. Thinking ahead, I might also have to build Wewak up in early '42, to send Bettys over NG to interdict transport shipping en route to Darwin. There is no way to provide aircover for those convoys. Even with that, the Allies can always use that railway.

A future patch should take out that ahistorical railway to Darwin.
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Q-Ball
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by Q-Ball »

It is very dependant on who you are playing against. What you need to keep in mind is that city attacks on Darwin will score points for Japan. Against a human, I would expect to see Darwin getting hammered for the strategic points. It is very tough to counter this type of attack from a crippled base.

...and maybe this is all the more reason for an offensive push out of Darwin.
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by Mr.Frag »

...and maybe this is all the more reason for an offensive push out of Darwin.

If you can great, but I would expect to see KB stop by and drop kick Darwin into next month as soon as the japanese player figured out you were planning something. Kb can be supported quite well in that area. PM on the other hand is the old rock and a hard place [;)]
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Q-Ball
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by Q-Ball »

If you can great, but I would expect to see KB stop by and drop kick Darwin into next month as soon as the japanese player figured out you were planning something. Kb can be supported quite well in that area. PM on the other hand is the old rock and a hard place

Definitely true in '42, but how about '43? Point taken that early on, the IJN player can squash any offensive movement with KB. But suppose it's mid-1943 and the tide has turned. You have carrier superiority, and large amounts of LBA. Should all of that offensive punch be concentrated in the Solomons or Central Pacific? Or should a push be made up through the DEI? Remember, I am thinking 1943. Path to victory or a waste of time and resources?

The Solomons are an obvious target. I'm trying to think out of the box a bit on Allied Offensive, but maybe I'm way off. After all, there are no resources in the Solomons. There is nothing for the Allied player but a battleground to wear down the Japanese, and the need to clear a supply line to the Phillipines so you can cut off the SRA from Japan. Advancing up the Java sea is a much shorter route as the crow flies. Maybe I'm crazy or missing something, but seems like a good opportunity. Am I wrong?
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by Grotius »

Hehe, Q-Ball, you're not crazy. Before WiTP was released, others were saying they'd like to try the same thing. One common objection from testers, though, was that keeping Darwin supplied might be a challenge. Yes, it's got that rail line, but it's so far from anything else that I'm not sure how much supply actually will travel along it. (Yes, I've read the land supply rules. I do see great hunks of supply travel from USA to SF and LA, but not so much from Karachi to the rest of India. So I'm not sure how it works in practice.)

If you have to supply Darwin by sea from Karachi or the USA, then you do have Ms. Betty to worry about. And Japan's supply line to the DEI is comparatively short. Conversely, the USA's supply line to CENTPAC and SOPAC is no longer than Japan's.
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by Raverdave »

The strategy is interestung and also valid......and one that I am keen to pursue against Luskan in our current PBEM. Of course the counter point is that the IJN needs to take out Darwin, either by land or sea or air....either way it will cause an Allied player some heartache through most of '42.
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Q-Ball
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by Q-Ball »

Those are good points and what I was looking for! Darwin is tough to supply by sea, though easier in 1943, which is the timeframe for a push. Certainly, Darwin itself should be fine by then, because you can toss all those Australia Command Boomerangs and Spitfires there which aren't much good for anything else. Supplying Darwin will get harder if any map edits take out the mystical railway that didn't connect to Australia in WWII.

Still, if I am the IJN, even the THOUGHT of an Allied player just THINKING of doing this would force me to garrison Koepang, Lautem, and Amboina with an IJA Division between them, probably more, and a garrison on Kai Island.

I would love to know if it works against a Human Opponent----let us know Raverdave if you rule the Banda Sea!
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by SunDevil_MatrixForum »

If he does now, I am sure Luskan will stick a couple of bananas in there just for spite. [:D]
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by Raverdave »

Whats wrong with Spitfires?????????????????
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Mark VII
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by Mark VII »

Nothing, except 10 minutes after taking off its time to land since they seem to not carry much gas.
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Whats wrong with Spitfires?????????????????
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Toro
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by Toro »

I seem to recall someone mentioning that resources and oil did not travel from Darwin to lower Oz, and therefore had to be shipped. Does this play for supplies and fuel going back up? Anyone know? If so, this might inhibit using Darwin as a staging base until much later.
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esteban
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by esteban »

Supply travels to Darwin very well, via the ahistorical rail links. Not sure about fuel.
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RE: Allied Advance from Northern Australia?

Post by SunDevil_MatrixForum »

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