Defending Burma/India

Share your gameplay tips, secret tactics and fabulous strategies with fellow gamers.

Moderators: wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami

Post Reply
User avatar
The Gnome
Posts: 1215
Joined: Fri May 17, 2002 2:52 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Defending Burma/India

Post by The Gnome »

Ok this area of the war is a complete blind spot for me. I'm so lost I can't even think of where to set up my main line of resistance. I keep hearing people using Rangoon as a strong point. It seems easy to islolate and reduce it though. Transport TF's are alread suffering torpedo attacks from the air and I doubt I'll be able to keep it supplied for long.

Anyone have any tips for slowing/stopping the enemy here?
User avatar
Feinder
Posts: 6983
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:33 pm
Location: Land o' Lakes, FL

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by Feinder »

So far, things have just started cooking for me, but here's what I've found...

1. I'm trying to hold Rangoon. It's got 3 of the understrength units, plus the Rangoon garrison, additional base-support. I still hold the adjacent base (Moulmein?), that is actualy 2 hexes away (because you have to cross the causeway), have 2 understrength units there. Since the Moul defenders are dug in, I figure I'll keep 'em there, until IJA pushes them out, and they can retreat to Rangoon.

2. I don't like the fact that Rangoon can be cut off, so I'm likely to put more importance o defending up front at Moulmein. If Rangoon gets cut off, it means bad things are happening, and will make it that much harder to reinforce (only by sea, which means casualties).

3. Tavoy is a major nuisance. If there's a way to hold it, do so (altho it would be very difficult). I gave it up, and now it's a major airbase that he can use to strike Rangoon. I'm not sure if I could have even gotten troops there in time, but now it sucks to have a big enemy airbase as my neighbor.

4. Lots of air combat over Rangoon. I had pulled the Buffalos out of Sing, and moved them to Rangoon, and also the reassigned the AVG and committed it also. I had substantial early success vs. the Japanese air, but now that the Zeros are replacing the Nates in droves, things are getting a lot tougher (esp since they can fly from Tavoy). Thankfully, my veteran pilots are surving, but this week I lost a lot planes (about 20 P40s, and 30 Buffalos), so I've pulled back the AVG for refit and dispersed the Buffalos for refit also. Since IJA hasn't move on Moul yet, I'm hoping that dispersing my aircraft more, will relieve some of the pressure on Rangoon, until I can get my squadrons back up to strength.

5. I've actually had reasonable success with the Vildabeasts and the Swordfish, by basing them on the island just SW of Sing (NW of Java). They can fly out of the bases there, and harrass the traffic trying to move around Sing (still holding a line north of Sing, but don't have much hope for them). I've also got my two RN subs patrolling that straight, they work well with the torpedo bombers. With the subs and torpedo planes working together, I've sunk several ships in this straight.

6. I've been giving my Blens and Hundsons something to do, but letting them bomb the IJA units (that don't have CAP). I figure it doesn't hurt (no losses), causes disruption to the bad-guys (altho I haven't really seen any affect), and is slowly getting my medium bombers experience.

7. The RN presence is fine against other surface combatents, but your AA -sucks-. Be very careful bringing these guys near the coast. I have managed two successful bombardment runs vs. Tavoy, but with surprisingly poor results. No loss to my ships, but only marginal damage to the airfield, and it the losses to my CAP in Rangoon escorting it in, made the whole operation a wash. The amusing thing was tho that, on run #2, we managed to catch an IJN DD and PG in Tavoy. 2 BBs, BC, 2 CAs, 4 CLs, and 4 DDs made short work of them. At least it was amusing. But I think I'll keep my surface fleet at either Diamon Harbor or Tricom for the time being. They're not doing much good as bombarnment (not sure why, seems like 3 heavies should throw some serious shell weight), and I don't want to risk them against the Japanese Bettys that seem to be moving into the neighborhood.

8. I've got one full-strength Division headed to Rangoon on a convoy. It's about 2 days out. However, the enemy aircover in the area is getting very hot, and I'm afraid it's going to take a serious beating if I try to sail into Rangoon's harbor. I'm thinking I might divert it's landing to that small base west of Rangoon (I keep my Catalina's there), and then have the guys march to Rangoon (altho that will probably add about 10 days). Am loading another full strenght div back in Karachi, but it will be at least 10 days before the transports round the horn at southern India and I have to decide where to land them.

9. Rangoon has ample supplies, but I regret not running supplies in there from Day 1. There is enough for now, but if it's going to bear the brunt of the IJA, it's going to need more. And now that my CAP is getting pushed back, it's going to be harder to escort the supply convoys.

10. Fortunately for my CAP, I've got 4 squadrons of Hurricane IIs showing up in the next week. I don't expect these guys to work wonders, but I'm hoping these guys can keep the situation in check, until the AVG and Buffalos get brought back up to strenght. We'll see.

-F-
"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

Image
User avatar
The Gnome
Posts: 1215
Joined: Fri May 17, 2002 2:52 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by The Gnome »

ORIGINAL: Feinder

So far, things have just started cooking for me, but here's what I've found...

1. I'm trying to hold Rangoon. It's got 3 of the understrength units, plus the Rangoon garrison, additional base-support. I still hold the adjacent base (Moulmein?), that is actualy 2 hexes away (because you have to cross the causeway), have 2 understrength units there. Since the Moul defenders are dug in, I figure I'll keep 'em there, until IJA pushes them out, and they can retreat to Rangoon.

2. I don't like the fact that Rangoon can be cut off, so I'm likely to put more importance o defending up front at Moulmein. If Rangoon gets cut off, it means bad things are happening, and will make it that much harder to reinforce (only by sea, which means casualties).

3. Tavoy is a major nuisance. If there's a way to hold it, do so (altho it would be very difficult). I gave it up, and now it's a major airbase that he can use to strike Rangoon. I'm not sure if I could have even gotten troops there in time, but now it sucks to have a big enemy airbase as my neighbor.

4. Lots of air combat over Rangoon. I had pulled the Buffalos out of Sing, and moved them to Rangoon, and also the reassigned the AVG and committed it also. I had substantial early success vs. the Japanese air, but now that the Zeros are replacing the Nates in droves, things are getting a lot tougher (esp since they can fly from Tavoy). Thankfully, my veteran pilots are surving, but this week I lost a lot planes (about 20 P40s, and 30 Buffalos), so I've pulled back the AVG for refit and dispersed the Buffalos for refit also. Since IJA hasn't move on Moul yet, I'm hoping that dispersing my aircraft more, will relieve some of the pressure on Rangoon, until I can get my squadrons back up to strength.

5. I've actually had reasonable success with the Vildabeasts and the Swordfish, by basing them on the island just SW of Sing (NW of Java). They can fly out of the bases there, and harrass the traffic trying to move around Sing (still holding a line north of Sing, but don't have much hope for them). I've also got my two RN subs patrolling that straight, they work well with the torpedo bombers. With the subs and torpedo planes working together, I've sunk several ships in this straight.

6. I've been giving my Blens and Hundsons something to do, but letting them bomb the IJA units (that don't have CAP). I figure it doesn't hurt (no losses), causes disruption to the bad-guys (altho I haven't really seen any affect), and is slowly getting my medium bombers experience.

7. The RN presence is fine against other surface combatents, but your AA -sucks-. Be very careful bringing these guys near the coast. I have managed two successful bombardment runs vs. Tavoy, but with surprisingly poor results. No loss to my ships, but only marginal damage to the airfield, and it the losses to my CAP in Rangoon escorting it in, made the whole operation a wash. The amusing thing was tho that, on run #2, we managed to catch an IJN DD and PG in Tavoy. 2 BBs, BC, 2 CAs, 4 CLs, and 4 DDs made short work of them. At least it was amusing. But I think I'll keep my surface fleet at either Diamon Harbor or Tricom for the time being. They're not doing much good as bombarnment (not sure why, seems like 3 heavies should throw some serious shell weight), and I don't want to risk them against the Japanese Bettys that seem to be moving into the neighborhood.

8. I've got one full-strength Division headed to Rangoon on a convoy. It's about 2 days out. However, the enemy aircover in the area is getting very hot, and I'm afraid it's going to take a serious beating if I try to sail into Rangoon's harbor. I'm thinking I might divert it's landing to that small base west of Rangoon (I keep my Catalina's there), and then have the guys march to Rangoon (altho that will probably add about 10 days). Am loading another full strenght div back in Karachi, but it will be at least 10 days before the transports round the horn at southern India and I have to decide where to land them.

9. Rangoon has ample supplies, but I regret not running supplies in there from Day 1. There is enough for now, but if it's going to bear the brunt of the IJA, it's going to need more. And now that my CAP is getting pushed back, it's going to be harder to escort the supply convoys.

10. Fortunately for my CAP, I've got 4 squadrons of Hurricane IIs showing up in the next week. I don't expect these guys to work wonders, but I'm hoping these guys can keep the situation in check, until the AVG and Buffalos get brought back up to strenght. We'll see.

-F-

Thanks for the pointers! I too let Tavoy go; I couldn’t see a way to hold onto it. I’m still in 1941 so the AI is consolidating the Malaya Peninsula. I still hold the base just below Kuala Lumpur, and the base a hex away on the other side of the coast (forget the name). I plan on putting up a fight for Singapore and have already managed to get 50k extra supplies there using single or paired AK runs from DEI.

I turned off the air groups’ replacements as they’re sucking too much supply, and I’ll try rebasing the buffaloes to Rangoon and the bombers to Colombo to reconstitute once they start to dwindle in numbers. Right now they’re doing too much damage to shipping to move.

I’m trying to draw as many enemy units to fight for Singapore as I can to indirectly help me in Burma. The trouble as you noted is the enemy air. I have nothing close to being able to counter it, so I guess it’s a waiting game for upgrades. Right now long range bombers can dictate how many supplies/reinforcements reach the Rangoon area.

When do the Brits start to see good replacement levels? Ever?
John B
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:22 pm

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by John B »

Its important to hold Singapore/Malaya as long as possible. I bungled my ops in Malaya badly, and lost Singapore in early Jan. The Jap AI seems to have reacted by making operations in the DI secondary, and launching a big push through Burma. Now late Feb, and they have Rangoon/Mandalay and have one strong division driving for Imphal. There's not a lot in the way of British/Indian ground forces in India at this stage, though a few reinforcements have landed at Karachi. Whether they will reach the front in time is another matter. Way things are going, I'm going to lose Imphal, but may, with luck, block the main advance at Kohima, where I have a full division, long enough for the reinforcements to come up. Best hope may be to use some Chinese to hit the Jap lines of communication.
John
User avatar
Feinder
Posts: 6983
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:33 pm
Location: Land o' Lakes, FL

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by Feinder »

Well, as far as upgrades go, don't look for any, anytime soon. British aircraft don't start upgrading until May 1, 1942. So you're going to be stuck with those Buffalos and Blens for a while.

I don't see how to increase the production rates for them, so I think it's a matter of doing your best make sure you losses are worth it (because unfortunately, the replacement rate of your Buffalos is pretty tough). My Hurricanes haven't seen combat yet, so I don't know what sort of losses these guys are going to take/extract. But again, I think it's a matter of trying to at least get an even exchange (which is tough, consider your pilots and aircraft are inferior, and the initial Japanese bonus).

My AVG haven't upgraded from the P-40b yet, and I'm hoping they'll upgrade soon. It might encourage them to upgrade, if I split them back into the A, B, C squadrons, instead of trying to upgrade the whole thing at once.

It kind of reminds me of trying to keep your head above water at Port Moresby in UV.

-F-
"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

Image
John B
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:22 pm

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by John B »

Hurricane II's are so-so. Mine at Imphal brought down a few Bettys, but struggle against Zeros.
John
ZOOMIE1980
Posts: 1283
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:07 am

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by ZOOMIE1980 »

I'm playing the AI and am in Late Jan. Still barley holding on at Singapore, but Rangoon has the Japs stymied. Guess they can use Malay units until Singapore is done. In the meantime, since I'm playing the AI, and I'm pretty sure the AI isn't going to do an end run and make landings through Calcutta and Dacca areas, I've completely emptied India of everything but base forces and headed them to Jorhat and from there I left one division in reserve at Jorhat, move two major ground forces (one div and one brigade and and ARM unit) to Imphal for a fall back reserve and everything else is headed for Mandalay. I also emptied Yunan of all those SE Asia Chinese forces and and force marching them through the jungle to Mandalay. It looks like they'll get there before Japan does, totally exhausted, but there are a LOT of them! Also move some base force units that had retreated to Rangoon to repair the support problem having that huge unit of P40B's there.

We'll see how the stand goes.....
chili614
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2002 4:04 pm

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by chili614 »

I evacuated everything south of Rangoon and sent it there. I put together a large supply convoy on day one and sent it to Rangoon prior to the Bettys getting into range. I then moved every ground combat unit in India to the coastal cities and sent them to Rangoon over water. I lost a few to bombers, but not too many. When the large Japanese division made it up to Rangoon, they were in for a serious suprise. I repelled the first attack and counter attacked down the peninsula and retook Tavoy. A second large Japanese division also showed up but was again repelled by incoming units from the sea. My initial Rangoon defence force just took Bangkok and the secondary force is about to take out both Japanese large divisions in Malaysia. Once you get past those divisions, the rear area bases are weak and almost without defences. I am just starting to wonder when the 100K+ infantry attacking Singapore are going to head north and cause trouble...
User avatar
Grotius
Posts: 5842
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 5:34 pm
Location: The Imperial Palace.

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by Grotius »

Singapore fell on January 19 for me, and that spelled doom for Rangoon, which was quickly cut off and fell ten days later. I didn't try to reinforce it, though, because I don't seem to have all that many ground troops available. Fortunately, the AI forgot to leave some troops outside Rangoon to keep me from retreating, so my defenders escaped and are high-tailing it to Mandalay, where I plan to make more of a stand. Even there, though, I don't expect to hold off the Japanese indefinitely. I see my ultimate line of defense as the temperate zones across the border from Burma, and I plan to use some Chinese to cut off Japanese ground forces when they get deeper into Burma. If I'm allowed to use Chinese that way.
Image
Andy Mac
Posts: 12573
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 8:08 pm
Location: Alexandria, Scotland

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by Andy Mac »

OK some of my suggestions please note there are against AI and you may suffer sever casualties if you try these against Human.

Sitrep I lost Singapore late Jan but managed to save 2 Bdes (Not Aussies do not ship out Aussies Ill explain why later) and cadres for all base forces, HQ's and most bdes.

It is now April I have held Rangoon and retaken Moulmien and Tavoy.

I have 100,000 soldiers dug in behind lvl 9 fortifactions at Rangoon and a field army of about another 100,000 at Moulmien and Tavoy. (My next move is either Bankok or going for a retake of Singapore in 1942.

Japanes have 4 worn down divisions stuck at Rangoon.

Comp is on Hard

V Important tun off replacements for all units yer Indian UK and CW replacements are very limited.

Things Ive picked up.

You must save as many base force cadres from DEI and Singapore as you can for Northern Aus and India If you save those they make a huge difference to defence of Rangoon as you can send saved cadres to India to recuperate and use Indian base forces to reinfoce and build Rangoon and Mandalay.

1. On turn 1 start moving all 8 Chinese SE Asia divison to Mandalay and at leat two or three base force from India.

This is your fall back position.

2. Without Rangoon Burma is lost if you lose Burma Run for it.

3. Holding Rangoon is a must do action all reinforcements should go there and fortifications built up immediatley.

4. Evacuate fuel from Rangoon on empty AK's fuel at Rangoon is a free gift to Japanes you have lots of AK's use them stockpile at leat 100k supply at Rangoon.

5. Do not get sucked into a fight anywhere but Rangoon the disruption a defeat would cause is a bad thing and make sure you pile up artillary in Rangoon by all means deploy Inf Bdes forward just make sure you retreat before defeated. All units in Rangoon are replacement on.

6. Diamond Harbour needs a better AF as does Calcutta these are important but quick to build.

7. In my opinion evacuate most air gps out of Singapore before they get totally wasted especially Buffalos with the slow replacement of aircraft and dont waste AVG by all means use it at Singapore but dont let it get ground down you will need it at Rangoon.

8. Evacuate at least 1 US fighter gp from Phillipines to Singapore/ Rangoon they upgrade to Warhawks quickly which allow hurricanse to do Air to Ground a lot which is good xp builder for Hurricane.

9 Do not let 3 corps and Malaya Army or the air HQ's to get wiped at singapore.

I use 3 corps to support Mandalay and Malaya Army to defend Rangoon plus one Air HQ each.
(After arrival of Bur Corps move Malaya Army to Rangoon)

They will rebuild quickly because Allied support pool is enormous.

(Replace Percival is a neccesity to)

Lastly reason why I dont save CW or Australian Bdes from Singapore (except for Cadres rescued by all the Dorniers at the last second before fall) Is because you get lots of Australian replacements. One of those Bdes decimated can be reform in India within a month or two whereas Indina Bdes are almost impossible to reform given the requirements for Indian replacements in Burma.

Anyway these are my tips against a human I suspect stripping india would be costly although I have 2nd UK Division and at least 3 Indian Divisions (At Bge strenght still in India plus the two Aussie Bgdes at 80% strength so I do still have a lot of forces concentrated at Karachi and Calcutta)

Anyway thats my tuppence worth above

Andy Mac
User avatar
ctid98
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 7:35 pm

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by ctid98 »

This is all against the AI, but here are my ideas.

I moved every one I could out of India and down to Singapore to hold there. The Japs need to take it in order to continue into the Dutch areas otherwise they get hammered by the LBA.

I also moved all RN and Dutch ships into the area to intercept and bombard the landing up and down the Malayan coast.

Presently I have 100K troops to his 60K and I'm forcing him back. Nothing happening in India right now, I guess again the AI waits for Singapore to fall before heading that way in force. I don't see any reinforcements coming to aid him and I hope not, it means I can head straight into Indo China!
---------------------
Tora! Tora! Tora!
User avatar
Sinjen
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2002 10:27 pm
Location: Florida
Contact:

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by Sinjen »

I would have to agree, If you hold Singapore its going to be very hard for a japanese player computer or human to project his power north into India. I think Rangoon is also an important city to hold also. Don't neglect it.
User avatar
The Gnome
Posts: 1215
Joined: Fri May 17, 2002 2:52 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by The Gnome »

The key to holding Rangoon is Tavoy. If you can delay its fall, you can build Rangoon with supply and troops relatively unopposed. If Tavoy falls you better be able to hold back the horde of Bettys as you will be in their torpedo range and you won't have the airpower to break through the escorts. You will then lose the ability to resupply Rangoon.

If someone sees a way to keep Rangoon in this situation let me know as Tavoy fell early for me!
User avatar
freeboy
Posts: 8969
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 9:33 am
Location: Colorado

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by freeboy »

If the Jap player uses the Imperial div, watch out its big and high in experience, no way I can see you stopping it short of Rangoon, not until it hits those trails between Burma and India
"Tanks forward"
UncleBuck
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 8:35 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, USA

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by UncleBuck »

My only suggestion for holding Rangoon and supplying it with Tavoy fallen, as it has in mine is to dump supply into Akyab. The Hq's in Rangoon will draw from the excess in Akyab. The distance is far enough that the Betties sort of leave you alone, especially if it is smaller TF's. They seem to concentrate on Rangoon proper. I am also moving in some fighters to Akyab to try and keep the Betties Honest. I am looking at possibly brining in two of my American Carriers from the Pacific to the IO along with several battleships and think of an amphibious landing at Tavoy, once the battle for Rangoon is joined. This should, I think tie in with the time it will take for the Carrier forces to get there. I am just not sure if I want to do this since it would leave the Central Pacific defenseless. But I think I need to do something drastic or I will lose India. Currently I am holding the Ledo road open with strong units at Ledo and Yunan, both have good supply. I do have several saved squadrons of B-17's in OZ that I am thinking of moving to India to do Night attacks on Tavoy, right now my Blens and Huds are not doing much in there night attacks but hitting back some is better than none at all.
UB
Image
User avatar
The Gnome
Posts: 1215
Joined: Fri May 17, 2002 2:52 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by The Gnome »

ORIGINAL: UncleBuck

My only suggestion for holding Rangoon and supplying it with Tavoy fallen, as it has in mine is to dump supply into Akyab. The Hq's in Rangoon will draw from the excess in Akyab. The distance is far enough that the Betties sort of leave you alone, especially if it is smaller TF's. They seem to concentrate on Rangoon proper. I am also moving in some fighters to Akyab to try and keep the Betties Honest. I am looking at possibly brining in two of my American Carriers from the Pacific to the IO along with several battleships and think of an amphibious landing at Tavoy, once the battle for Rangoon is joined. This should, I think tie in with the time it will take for the Carrier forces to get there. I am just not sure if I want to do this since it would leave the Central Pacific defenseless. But I think I need to do something drastic or I will lose India. Currently I am holding the Ledo road open with strong units at Ledo and Yunan, both have good supply. I do have several saved squadrons of B-17's in OZ that I am thinking of moving to India to do Night attacks on Tavoy, right now my Blens and Huds are not doing much in there night attacks but hitting back some is better than none at all.
UB

Yeah I'm using Akyab as a strong point now too. I'm throwing in the AVG and a bunch of bombers once the airfield is improved. I think this gives the japanese player a choice... reduce the airpowere growing in Akyab, or concentrate on eliminating Rangoon.

With Akyab as a major airbase I can either bomb any landings directly at Rangoon and/or add constant ground support to ground combat. I'm also toying with the idea of shipping in C-47's for an airlift operation. Getting them there will be problematic though.
User avatar
freeboy
Posts: 8969
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 9:33 am
Location: Colorado

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by freeboy »

But how are you going to protect the coast of India after Burma falls?
"Tanks forward"
User avatar
Raverdave
Posts: 4882
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 5:00 pm
Location: Melb. Australia

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by Raverdave »

I really don't like the thought of trying to hold Rangoon............against a human player it will simply become another Singapore, and in '42 the allies will have lost enough troops by this stage. Better to buildup Akyab and Mandalay and fight from there. So far this strategy is working well against Luskan in my PBEM against him.
Tavoy is simply used as a speed hump to check any wild rushes by the IJN to Rangoon.
Image


Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
User avatar
pompack
Posts: 2585
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:44 am
Location: University Park, Texas

RE: Defending Burma/India

Post by pompack »

I used a modified Frag Mandalay gambit (modification was to hold four brigades back in Diamond Harbor/Chandpur as a reserve). I rushed everyone else to Mandalay.

Singapore fell on 12 Jan and I maintained a light covering force that delayed the Japanese advance up the coast. Rangoon was abandoned without a fight as soon as Moul was taken.

Mandalay itself never got above level 4 fort. Heavy Japanese attacks stipped the fort level back down to 2. The Chinese marched to Lashio and beyond as quickly as possible, ariving just as the Mandaly position began to erode. The Chinese got across the Japanese supply line; this could not happen against a competent human opponent.

Final result: 110,000 Japanese cut off. Heavy fighting threw them out of Mandalay and they withdrew trying to retreat Southeast through the jungle. It was fairly easy to stay ahead of them and advance down the coast road.

End result: Brits took Bangkok in June 42 and recovered Singapore in Sept 42.
Post Reply

Return to “The War Room”