Squad Level Combat?
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- Grumbling Grogn
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Squad Level Combat?
When will we see a WW2 or Modern Squad level 'wargame?
No, I don't mean a first person shooter. Those are great and they are not what I am looking for. I want something in the vein of "Sniper" or "Firepower" if anyone is old enough to remember those old boardgames.
It always bugged the crap out of me that nobody ever picked up the engine from JA2 and made it modern/realistic.
No, I don't mean a first person shooter. Those are great and they are not what I am looking for. I want something in the vein of "Sniper" or "Firepower" if anyone is old enough to remember those old boardgames.
It always bugged the crap out of me that nobody ever picked up the engine from JA2 and made it modern/realistic.
The Grumbling Grognard
RE: Squad Level Combat?
Sniper had a follow up game called Patrol!. I played that and enjoyed it.
For those who do not know, you have a squad and control each man individually. I too look forward to such a game for PC.
I notice there is a Matrix science fiction game called “Titans of Steel”. It could be modded to make a WW2 game.
But Titans of Steel is hex based and turn based. I imagine a WW2 game would need to be “continous time pausable” just like Highway to the Reich.
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For those who do not know, you have a squad and control each man individually. I too look forward to such a game for PC.
I notice there is a Matrix science fiction game called “Titans of Steel”. It could be modded to make a WW2 game.
But Titans of Steel is hex based and turn based. I imagine a WW2 game would need to be “continous time pausable” just like Highway to the Reich.
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RE: Squad Level Combat?
closest thing out at present is Silent Storm. However unfortunaly the went full sci fi[:-][&:]
Why they dd that Ive no idea.
Why they dd that Ive no idea.
- Hexed Gamer
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RE: Squad Level Combat?
I don't recall Patrol, Joe.
I thought it was Sniper - Hetzer Sniper - Special Forces Sniper in that order.
I have those ones at least.
Firepower is also good too.
On "squad level wargame" though, I guess that depends on your expectations.
Close Combat is pretty well a "squad Level wargame".
Steel Panthers is too when the tanks are not to numerous. Same could be said for the Campaign series or Combat Mission.
Squad Assault is more or less a "squad level wargame".
But the moment the game has dozen of squads and dozens of vehicles, I think the term "squad level" should be nudged up to platoon level or company level at least.
I usually think just one squad when I think "squad level".
I thought it was Sniper - Hetzer Sniper - Special Forces Sniper in that order.
I have those ones at least.
Firepower is also good too.
On "squad level wargame" though, I guess that depends on your expectations.
Close Combat is pretty well a "squad Level wargame".
Steel Panthers is too when the tanks are not to numerous. Same could be said for the Campaign series or Combat Mission.
Squad Assault is more or less a "squad level wargame".
But the moment the game has dozen of squads and dozens of vehicles, I think the term "squad level" should be nudged up to platoon level or company level at least.
I usually think just one squad when I think "squad level".
There is only one Hexed Gamer
http://s3.invisionfree.com/Les_s_Place
http://s3.invisionfree.com/Les_s_Place
RE: Squad Level Combat?
ORIGINAL: wodin
closest thing out at present is Silent Storm. However unfortunaly the went full sci fi[:-][&:]
Why they dd that Ive no idea.
It was a shame, although it's still great fun. Maybe they were aiming for the X-Com market ?
Grumbling, you might look around e-bay and such for "Soldiers at War", although it's pretty long in the tooth, now. Much under-rated IMHO, I really enjoyed it.... a JA style (although the inspiration was probably X-Com/Laser Squad) game with a "straight" WW2 setting.
RE: Squad Level Combat?
Yes, in Patroll! you had 8 men or so. And you control each man individually.
I really enjoyed Close Combat - where you control teams instead of individual men.
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I really enjoyed Close Combat - where you control teams instead of individual men.
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RE: Squad Level Combat?
I too enjoyed SAW.
You can still get extra scenarios over at wargamer.
Yes it was very underated.
There was also that game by Microsoft Squad leader I think.
I never played it though did nearly buy at the time of release. It just looked like SAW. Infact thats why I didnt buy it I thought is was SAW under a new name.
You can still get extra scenarios over at wargamer.
Yes it was very underated.
There was also that game by Microsoft Squad leader I think.
I never played it though did nearly buy at the time of release. It just looked like SAW. Infact thats why I didnt buy it I thought is was SAW under a new name.
- Hexed Gamer
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RE: Squad Level Combat?
I have yet to ever hear anyone ever say anything remotely "nice" about the Squad Leader for computer program.
There is only one Hexed Gamer
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RE: Squad Level Combat?
Wild Bill created a scenario for SP that is entitled "Anywhere but here" He took the members of the MCSE Team and put them into an amphibious assault into Normandy. The units are single men (modified snipers). That may whet your appetite.
Oh and please be careful with Pvt. Holland.
Thanks.
Oh and please be careful with Pvt. Holland.
Thanks.
Jim1954
KMC/T
RE: Squad Level Combat?
Both Sarge and I had independantly done work on a single man mod for EYSA. I'm sure one or the other will see the light of day sometime. It's a whole different game. Now you really know you've lost a veteran.
"Fear is a darkroom where the devil develops his negatives" Gary Busey
- Grumbling Grogn
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RE: Squad Level Combat?
I don't care what label you slap on it but the player gives actions/controls each man/veh. individually.
Turn based like JA2 would be just great or the ability to pause and issue orders is required at the minimum. Or it could be continuous turnbased like Combat Mission. Either method would work but: no one person should have to think for a dozen in real time.
I have always been bored by the twich in the first person shooters and want some hard-core, small unit tactics on my PC. Vehicles would be sweet but frankly they are optional if the core infantry game is done right. But an expansion pact would sure sell: "Tank hunting T34's in the streets of Stalingrad...with tons more tactics, realism and no twich required." Hell, maybe I'm just getting old. [;)]
Turn based like JA2 would be just great or the ability to pause and issue orders is required at the minimum. Or it could be continuous turnbased like Combat Mission. Either method would work but: no one person should have to think for a dozen in real time.
I have always been bored by the twich in the first person shooters and want some hard-core, small unit tactics on my PC. Vehicles would be sweet but frankly they are optional if the core infantry game is done right. But an expansion pact would sure sell: "Tank hunting T34's in the streets of Stalingrad...with tons more tactics, realism and no twich required." Hell, maybe I'm just getting old. [;)]
The Grumbling Grognard
- Hexed Gamer
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RE: Squad Level Combat?
Sounds like what you are hunting for is essentially a war RPG game.
Or something that is RPGish where you are really just controlling your "party" ie 3-4-5 or 6 personalities. And controlling them in a RPGish style environment.
There are some out there, but it exceeds my own experiences.
I watch games like EQ or more recently World of Warcraft in beta testing, and wonder, what would that look like if it was a GI, or a Tommie or maybe a Panzer Grenadier.
I have not really been sold on WWII Online as yet.
Or something that is RPGish where you are really just controlling your "party" ie 3-4-5 or 6 personalities. And controlling them in a RPGish style environment.
There are some out there, but it exceeds my own experiences.
I watch games like EQ or more recently World of Warcraft in beta testing, and wonder, what would that look like if it was a GI, or a Tommie or maybe a Panzer Grenadier.
I have not really been sold on WWII Online as yet.
There is only one Hexed Gamer
http://s3.invisionfree.com/Les_s_Place
http://s3.invisionfree.com/Les_s_Place
RE: Squad Level Combat?
Isn't COMMANDOS a WWII squad level game? Seems to me it is. I had a demo of it and got so frustrated cause it was harder than heck to me. But, I suck at those kinds of games anyways, I need cardboard counters and x's and o'x with numbers on them.
Oh and I just remember the early versions of X-COM are squad based missions as well. X-COM the Deep was my favorite.
Oh and I just remember the early versions of X-COM are squad based missions as well. X-COM the Deep was my favorite.
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?
RE: Squad Level Combat?
I have yet to ever hear anyone ever say anything remotely "nice" about the Squad Leader for computer program.
If you ever do, be sure and dial 911 and have them take them to the funny farm.
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?
- Grumbling Grogn
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RE: Squad Level Combat?
ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer
Sounds like what you are hunting for is essentially a war RPG game.
Or something that is RPGish where you are really just controlling your "party" ie 3-4-5 or 6 personalities. And controlling them in a RPGish style environment.
No. A RPG-gun-game is absolutely not what I am looking for.
The closest I have seen on PC was 101st Airborne from Shrapnel games (good game btw). Nothing RPG about that game IMHO. Each soldier has a stat line, but that is about as RPG as it got. No gaining levels/stats/etc. And, frankly, an individual stat line for each soldier is not required.
I want a small unit tactical wargame where the gamer controls at most 2-3 squads/veh. Again, I have to refer to either the board games "Sniper" (and it's sequels) and Firepower as I think these two hit it closest with the hard-edged wargame aspect played up and the fluffy left out.
GG
The Grumbling Grognard
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RE: Squad Level Combat?
Looks like you have identified what might be called a "product gap".
When I first played Squad Leader (the board game) the beauty was it was just a simple game of squads and maybe some vehicles. The vehicles and guns really were not all that intrusive. It was small and managable.
Small and managable doesn't seem important to the computer game designers though.
Or rather, it appears no one wants to design a game where you ONLY have a few squads.
The singular nice part of Sniper and or Firepower, was it was just a handful of blokes you were controlling.
I currently like Close Combat more than Squad Assault mainly due to the difficulty level of just playing the game. It is simply easier to play Close Combat.
I think Close Combat would be even nicer if it was just individual guys and not individual squads. I have Hidden and Dangerous. But I found it was a bit to much like playing several guys simultaneously in a shooter style game. In a shooter, one is plenty to control.
More is not always better.
When I first played Squad Leader (the board game) the beauty was it was just a simple game of squads and maybe some vehicles. The vehicles and guns really were not all that intrusive. It was small and managable.
Small and managable doesn't seem important to the computer game designers though.
Or rather, it appears no one wants to design a game where you ONLY have a few squads.
The singular nice part of Sniper and or Firepower, was it was just a handful of blokes you were controlling.
I currently like Close Combat more than Squad Assault mainly due to the difficulty level of just playing the game. It is simply easier to play Close Combat.
I think Close Combat would be even nicer if it was just individual guys and not individual squads. I have Hidden and Dangerous. But I found it was a bit to much like playing several guys simultaneously in a shooter style game. In a shooter, one is plenty to control.
More is not always better.
There is only one Hexed Gamer
http://s3.invisionfree.com/Les_s_Place
http://s3.invisionfree.com/Les_s_Place
RE: Squad Level Combat?
I want a small unit tactical wargame where the gamer controls at most 2-3 squads/veh
Eric Young's Squad Assault would do that nicely. The maps range in size from 360x360 meters to 540x540 meters. There are a few 1k maps available but they may be to big for a platoon size force.
Squad Assault is continuous time with a pause feature.
The squads available range from 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 12 man squads/teams. Vehicles are individual units.
You could do something like have two squads along with a MG team attacking a German heavy MG tram. On the US side you would be looking at anywhere from 13 men to 27 men depending what size squads you picked.
All the battles in the game can be redone in the Scenario Editor or you can make your own new scenario. You can also easily edit the force size of any squad/team in Excel.
- Grumbling Grogn
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RE: Squad Level Combat?
Well, I have tried the demo for SA and while I thought I would like it while reading the previews, I don't.
See above for reasons (posted by Hexed Gamer) why I still play CC2/CC3 once in a while yet I have no plans on purchasing SA. That and the continous time with pause feature in SA just does not sit well with me. I never feel like I have any real level of control over the units I am to command. Now, morale, and loss of control of "men" or "units" during the course of a battle is one thing, but I just never had the feeling that I was in any form of control in a the demo of SA.
I have only Shrapnel's game 101st Airborne to refer to in the PC realm that seems to have hit the nail on the head. I would LOVE to see this 'type' of game done more generically for a modern or even multi-theater WW2 game(s).
GG
See above for reasons (posted by Hexed Gamer) why I still play CC2/CC3 once in a while yet I have no plans on purchasing SA. That and the continous time with pause feature in SA just does not sit well with me. I never feel like I have any real level of control over the units I am to command. Now, morale, and loss of control of "men" or "units" during the course of a battle is one thing, but I just never had the feeling that I was in any form of control in a the demo of SA.
I have only Shrapnel's game 101st Airborne to refer to in the PC realm that seems to have hit the nail on the head. I would LOVE to see this 'type' of game done more generically for a modern or even multi-theater WW2 game(s).
GG
The Grumbling Grognard
RE: Squad Level Combat?
The follow up to 101st Airborne is 82nd Airborne. Due out in June 2000, Shrapnel says they are still working it.
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- Grumbling Grogn
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RE: Squad Level Combat?
Yep, I know... I am one of the Beta testers. But seeing as it is the 30th, I would not count on them making that date.
However, I am still looking for another, more generic, more versitile game.
However, I am still looking for another, more generic, more versitile game.
The Grumbling Grognard