People War Games (Jack Radey) Korsun Pocket

radegast · Post by **radegast** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 2:53 pm

Anyone out there familiar with the cardboard and paper board game from designer Jack Radey which deals with Korsun Pocket?

A massive board game (the board is approx 2 * 2 metres) about 1200 playing pieces and 800 markers it was (is) a wealth of information about the battle.

Unfortunately unplayable, I remember trying a scenario with the 16 and 17 Pz divisions on the Gnoloi Tisich ((sp?) I think) where each hex seemed to have about 15 counters on it! Not good for the shaky hands!

The opening breakthrough and encirclement scenarios were a little easier to handle, but even so mega complex. Cried out for computer power I even went as far as to program a (then) state of the art calculator for combat odds calculation to ease the burden a little.

The rules went as far as modeling different types of ammo supply for different classes of artillery, and some units were represented down to the company level!

Jack's games were always amongst the most enjoyable for me, not least because of the irreverent manner in which his rules were written, to the extent tht at one point it states that if your opponent does x you are permitted to beat him round the head!

Unfortunately, Jack dedicated Korsun Pocket to the 'Brave men and women of the Red Army who gave their lives in the Great Patriotic War' and was immediately branded a communist! This made him somewhat of a pariah in the community, which in the seventies seemed to comprise, at least in the US, solely of fascists. Makes one wonder where the world would have been if the Great Patriotic War had never been fought.

Jack did a number of other games, the most relevant to Korsun being Kanev, the paradrop over the Dnieper and Kirovograd, the precursor to Korsun.

I've still got these games somewhere, must dig them out for comparison.

Edited for typos.

julianbarker · Post by **julianbarker** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 3:58 pm

I used to have a copy when it came out. Like you I found it unplayable.

Capitaine · Post by **Capitaine** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:14 pm

I have a mint copy. What's it going for?

e_barkmann · Post by **e_barkmann** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:21 pm

A boxless copy was spotted at Gen Con a couple of weeks ago for $135...not sure if it got sold though.

Chris

Kent Pfeiffer · Post by **Kent Pfeiffer** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 9:34 pm

Originally posted by Capitaine
I have a mint copy. What's it going for?

If you are going to sell it, do it soon, because L2 Design Group is publishing an updated edition sometime in the next 6-12 months.

Snigbert · Post by **Snigbert** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:05 pm

A boxless copy was spotted at Gen Con a couple of weeks ago for $135...not sure if it got sold though.

That's pretty steep. The most I've paid for a board game is $130 for an unopened copy of Beyond Valor for ASL (it's out of print, got it on ebay).

What's the most you guys have paid for a game?

Wilhammer · Post by **Wilhammer** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:12 pm

I played his Black Sea Black Death game once.

Loved the paratrooper rules; hold counter 3-6 inches above map and drop. If it lands upside down, it takes a casualty and is disrupted.

julianbarker · Post by **julianbarker** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:14 am

I remember paying about £40 for AH Longest Day when it first came out. As I was earning about £100 a week then, it has to be the most I have paid for a game.

HannoMeier · Post by **HannoMeier** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 1:41 am

I think that would be about $250 for the SPI War in Europe new edition from Decision Games. (WWII divisional scale with unit production 9 maps 4000 counters). That will be probably topped be the new SPI War in the Pacific edition. That should be about $300.

A very rare game is the Hobby Japan edition of Last Gamble (Ardennes 1944). Market price is over $500.

Regards,

Hanno

HannoMeier · Post by **HannoMeier** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 1:46 am

I was looking for the Korsun Pocket boardgame. But I wanted a boxed copy - which I didn't find for quite some time. I was nearly convinced to pay the $150-$200 market price for it, when I located a guy at a German wargaming convention, who wanted to sell a punched boexd copy for $15 - a steal. Now its mine and I have the situation maps next to me when I play SSG's Korsun Pocket.

Hanno

Matt Erickson · Post by **Matt Erickson** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 6:04 am

Originally posted by Snigbert
A boxless copy was spotted at Gen Con a couple of weeks ago for $135...not sure if it got sold though.

That's pretty steep. The most I've paid for a board game is $130 for an unopened copy of Beyond Valor for ASL (it's out of print, got it on ebay).

What's the most you guys have paid for a game?

Hmm...I have a copy of that too unpunched too...also have red radeys game too along with about a couple of hundred others as well
I loved collecting them:) anyone heard of streets of stalingrad two maps company level phoenix games I wonder what this is worth now?

julianbarker · Post by **julianbarker** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:59 pm

I've got one of them - I kept that one. Lovely simple and elegant system, but it is still hard work pushing all those counters and rolling all those dice! Still, it is a fun game.

However, company Level Battle of Stalingrad is always going to be hard work!

Kent Pfeiffer · Post by **Kent Pfeiffer** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 9:04 pm

Originally posted by Matt Erickson
anyone heard of streets of stalingrad two maps company level phoenix games I wonder what this is worth now?

Not that much ($50-$100), because L2 released deluxe edition late last year. It pretty much made the Phoenix Games version obsolete.

elmo3 · Post by **elmo3** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 10:26 pm

Originally posted by Hanno Meier
...

A very rare game is the Hobby Japan edition of Last Gamble (Ardennes 1944). Market price is over $500.

Regards,

Hanno

Just checked my copy after seeing this but it's the 3W version.

Matt Erickson · Post by **Matt Erickson** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 11:39 pm

hey kent you have any kinda link for that game? as for hobby japan didnt know they released a bulge game but I do have thier 45 budapest game...final agaony I think its called.

Matt Erickson · Post by **Matt Erickson** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 11:42 pm

one of my favorite titles as well as companys was a title called 48th panzer corps dealing with the german defence on the river chir, very cool game unusaul game system.

Kent Pfeiffer · Post by **Kent Pfeiffer** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:09 am

Originally posted by Matt Erickson
hey kent you have any kinda link for that game? as for hobby japan didnt know they released a bulge game but I do have thier 45 budapest game...final agaony I think its called.

Sure, it's l2designgroup.com from Canada (Toronto?). The bad news is they don't take credit card orders, but they do accept Paypal or checks. Last I heard, they were down to less than 200 copies, in spite of the $170.00 price tag. Also, if you order now, it will likely be awhile before it gets shipped because they are starting to ship updated versions of The Russian Campaign and Bitterwoods just this week.

Matt Erickson · Post by **Matt Erickson** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:13 am

Hey... very cool they cleaned up the map a bit but it still looks very good!...price is a little steep but I'm gonna chew on this thanks for the link!:)

Spaceman · Post by **Spaceman** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:53 pm

Originally posted by Matt Erickson
one of my favorite titles as well as companys was a title called 48th panzer corps dealing with the german defence on the river chir, very cool game unusaul game system.

Hey Matt, me too! Wow, I am not the only one!

Looks like lots of Grognards here, very cool, but I did not know about L2 and I am very happy to find out. Excellent, thank you.

Personally I have old Squad Leader, stopped because refused to start again just because they brought out ASL. Also several old SPI and AH games, and more recently a lot of GMT Games (a mized bag - hate the tactical series, it is just so UGLY), and current favourites The Gamers Operational Combat Series. Hoping to mod some of these as scenarios for DBWWIIKP, if I ever get 1) the game, and 2) time.

Cheers

Space§man

Matt Erickson · Post by **Matt Erickson** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:03 pm

I know the guy at gmt gene billingsly used to bump into him when I went to game conventions in los angelas he let me sleep on the floor of his hotel room, rather than drive 150 miles back to santa barbra at 4 in the morning nice guy.

People War Games (Jack Radey) Korsun Pocket

People War Games (Jack Radey) Korsun Pocket

magazine games

oh yeah!

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