Pace of the game. (PBEM)

[Barb]

Why not? Shouldn't be that hard to implement. Orders are set of instructions - for air unit ID, you need to "extract" Mission Types with %, altitude, flight level, target.
For ships it could be ID, TF ID /Port ID, Repair types (in port).
For TFs it could be the control, destination, Patrol, remain, refuel, speed, threat.
For ground units ID, OpMode, Destination, Combat Orders.

These could be extracted on difference from original orders so that the "orders file" wont be too big.
Then both order sets could be merged for single processing by game.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Edward75

I have an idea!
In future PBEM games need to create a little differently. If it is possible!
After watching turn replay, each player (side) could start making a new turn. When both players are ready, they send each other a file. This files is inserted into game, and you can watch turn replay.
Then each player will NOT wait for his opponent. This way PBEM pace of the game will accelerate!

The game has a 'hotseat' setting wherein players can alternate gameplay turns from the same device-back to back.

What you're describing would require both players to be simultaneously by their computers ready to go at the same time. My opinion is that such occasions would be infrequently convenient and not conducive to >1000 turns of a game. Moreso if your erstwhile opponent is in a different time zone.

[Edward75]

Not. 'Hotseat' is same as PBEM. Only on one computer. While one player makes a turn, another waits and spends time.
My idea is completely different. Both players can simultaneously give orders and when ready, files are sent and a replay is launched. No one waiting.

[rustysi]

I get what you're saying, but I've yet to see any game where orders, input, commands, whatever you choose to call it, are merged together through a simultaneous input. Not a programmer, but also not sure the function would be as easy as you think. Not only that if the orders were to arrive at the server at different times not sure how that would be managed as well.

Of course JMHO. YMMV.

[Edward75]

Is it possible to learn how to create a strategic game, simple? To do this, you need a special education or you can learn it yourself? What is needed for this?

[Edward75]

I'm playing a PBEM-game To End All Wars (AGEod) now. It is played simultaneously by three players. So, in it after show battle-replay, Host-player saves file and sends it to all other opponents. And all three players can start giving orders at same time, and when all three files are ready, Host collects them and starts a new turn, etc.
This way of playing (PBEM) is possible and it will speed up the game! No need to wait for your opponent(s) to finish his turn.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Edward75
No need to wait for your opponent(s) to finish his turn.

Aren't you still (simultaneously) waiting for the other two players to finish their turns before computer resolution? It's just that you're waiting in 'real time' rather than at a late time of your convenience.

[Hoplosternum]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

I get what you're saying, but I've yet to see any game where orders, input, commands, whatever you choose to call it, are merged together through a simultaneous input. Not a programmer, but also not sure the function would be as easy as you think. Not only that if the orders were to arrive at the server at different times not sure how that would be managed as well.

Of course JMHO. YMMV.

But this is done in many games surely? The dominion games (I think the latest is Dominions 5) gathers up all the player turns and then process them together on a server. As there can be a dozen or more factions playing (including AIs) this is much quicker than passing the game from player to player. The game processes when all player turns are in. While this uses a separate server it could easily use the pc of the game creator.

There are plenty of other games that allow simultaneous input of turns.

I don’t think this game could be changed to allow simultaneous input now. But it should have been easy to do that originally. I cannot think of many mechanisms in the game that would be spoilt or need to be changed for this to work. As of now the game waits until it has a complete Japanese and Allied turn before it processes.

PBEM would be speeded up and you could play over a network/ internet - getting several turns in an evening. It would be fairly easy playing with someone you know to coordinate playing most turns fast with the occasional long turn where you both do more planning / training / logistics maintenance to keep the tempo up but still allow reflection adjustment and thinking time.

Sadly it isn’t going to happen now. But I think that was due to its design origins in a time when there was much less over the internet play. The designers just did not see the need and built on the old pacwar email way presumably. But it isn’t really an I go you go game. It is a we go game. But the game only accepts I go you go orders. And so takes much longer to play and is more restricted in how you play.

[rustysi]

There are plenty of other games that allow simultaneous input of turns.

I don’t think this game could be changed to allow simultaneous input now.

You're talking about on-line games. No? This isn't an on-line game, and irregardless its not going to be changed at this point.

PBEM would be speeded up and you could play over a network/ internet - getting several turns in an evening.

Not gonna happen in my case. I've never been able to run multiple turns in one day. At best I can maybe get in one and a half. I refuse to rush my turns just to meet some arbitrary threshold, but that's me. Others I'm sure see it differently. I'm a journey, as opposed to destination type, so there's no rush as far as i'm concerned.

I play to relax, and have no desire to be in any kind of a rush. Besides the anticipation of an executed turn is always near.[;)]

[Hoplosternum]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

You're talking about on-line games. No? This isn't an on-line game, and irregardless its not going to be changed at this point.

I know it won't happen it was just an idle wish really. We had the conversation with the devs and other forumites during the creation. The answer was the same as yours. There is a prejudice against on-line games (as you call 'em - as if you don't need to go on-line to email your turn!). Online does not necessarily mean a desire to play a shoot'em up or RTS game completed in an evening!

I thought it was an error then, and now should anyone make another monster like this. And of course a we go game can be played - just as now - by email.

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Not gonna happen in my case. I've never been able to run multiple turns in one day. At best I can maybe get in one and a half. I refuse to rush my turns just to meet some arbitrary threshold, but that's me. Others I'm sure see it differently. I'm a journey, as opposed to destination type, so there's no rush as far as i'm concerned.

I play to relax, and have no desire to be in any kind of a rush. Besides the anticipation of an executed turn is always near.[;)]

I appreciate that it won't be good for all. No need to kill or change the email option.

But I have a couple of mates from University days. Known them and played board and war games with them for over 30 years. We have even played some big slow wargames like Terrible Swift Sword, Empires in Arms, World in Flames, Europa Universalis (the board game not the PC game based on it), War between the States etc. We have, but never tried, even larger options - Europa, Enemy at the Gates etc. But there have always been issues with such games. Even if you find an opponent the dedication of a whole room for the game (and required for days or weeks before you can break it down) plus while it is the other guys go there is not much to do.

But for some of us to be able to play online and get say half a dozen turns done in an evening would be great. That is not that a fast pace really! Even if we just played once a week that is as good or better than most PBEM games - which literally take longer than the actual war [X(]. But they won't play by email. Appears to be too slow and many people (not just my friends) are wary of starting a game with a largely unknown opponent that is a commitment of years (literally). And it would not stop (or change) traditional email play.

Here is a game which removes all the counter stacking and book keeping and adds huge layers of complexity to every action by utilizing the power of a computer. No war game with maps and counters can come close to the richness of WITP:AE. And it pretty much waits for both turns and then processes. So it is a we go game. But you cannot play it that way [:(]

I know it cannot and won't be changed now. I suspect because it was built off the back of PACWAR rather than from the ground up there was never a real chance for a genuine we go game. It's origins just did not see the requirement. But the game is so close to being we go and yet isn't [:(] It would not just open up the game to many others (and I don't mean the shoot 'em up / RTS crowd - lots of genuine grognards). But also speed up PBEM in some cases. Wouldn't it be good if both players could work on the turn at the same time? Even if you are not trying to do multiple turns a day or speed up the game it would still be good to be able to work on the turn at a time of your choosing rather than needing to wait for your opponent to finish his.

[rustysi]

TBH, I see no reason to not work on my 'next turn' while awaiting my opponents' 'response'. By that I mean checking all my 'out of the way'/backwater areas (and there's tons to do here) and making notes as to what I wish to do in the 'next turn'. For me this would speed up my 'turnover' of the turn significantly. Of course provided I had the time to invest.

Playing against the AI its not possible for me to do much of this, as the turn 'turnover' is instantaneous. I usually just rely on memory and miss a few things, but none are too serious and may wait another day. If I do miss something important then, playing the AI, I have the option to replay the turn. This is something I'd not have in a PBEM.

So, I'm not trying to dismiss your ideas or desires, I'm just saying that I don't think I personally would enjoy the game as much as now. As I say, the game is an escape that I use to relax.

[tarkalak]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

You're talking about on-line games. No? This isn't an on-line game, and irregardless its not going to be changed at this point.

No, it doesn't need to be an online game for that.

He exsplains the following system:
0. One player is the "server" player. In WITPAE this is the Japanese player. His turn is "ground truth", while the allied turn can look different (the replay bug).
1. All players make their orders and send the savefiles to the "server" player.
2. The "server" player runs the turn and returns them the save with the resolution. He doesn't need to put his orders before the others.
3. All players can now run the turn, see what happened and go back to 1. until GAME OVER.

Legend:
orders - the orders that players put.
turn - the turn resolution

This requires more files to run - you have n savefiles (where n is number of players) instead of just 1.

This is implemented in "Stars!", but they have separate files for the replay, orders and state of the game world, which require more file juggling.