OT Things to ponder

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

When I was born there were 3 billion people here. Now there's nearly 8. This planet cannot sustain that. Natural selection will be kicking in very soon.

No the selection will be very un-natural. When food and water shortages start the have-nots will attack the haves and slaughter will commence on both sides and the smart/worthy/innocent will not be spared. It would be natural if we fought with fists, but the weapons we have will make the situation so bad that all trade may stop. Back to primitive existence after all we have built is destroyed.

That sounds bleak, but unless bold action is taken to ensure everyone gets a piece of the pie and population declines from deliberate birth controls, we will revert to survival of the most vicious.

That nihilistic approach belies or subsumes human progress. Way too bleak.

Through scientific discovery, automation and application of learned principles, we are capable of growing more than enough food for 8 billion people. Rate of growth of populations in most advanced countries are slowing significantly over the last two decades. Some are actually declining (Japan) or will be declining ex-immigration (Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Russia, Central Asian republics) within the next decade or so. Extreme poverty has been globally cut by two-thirds in the last 30 years. Life expectancy globally has continued to rise. Widespread vaccination campaigns have wiped out smallpox and are precariously close to eradicating polio globally. Most other diseases for which vaccines exist have significantly reduced their grip on the world's people. Women are educated and are leaders in more fortune 500 companies than ever before. There are fewer state-on-state wars and fewer people dying (on a per capita basis) from wars than at almost any other time in history.

Compared to our ancestors, we live in a gilded age full of wonders. We're doing just fine for ourselves. I'm optimistic that human progress will continue and the lives of our grandchildren and great grandchildren will be commensurately better.

[USSAmerica]

I'm with CB on this one. I anticipate the growth rate globally to tail off in a manageable manner and our overall situation as human beings to continue to improve. Not that I don't expect significant disruptions along the way but I think the long term future is bright.

[Lecivius]

I don't have your faith in humanity. Protectionism is breaking out everywhere, more is being spent on militaries than research, climate change is causing widespread impact...

Naw, no faith here [:(]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

I'm with CB on this one. I anticipate the growth rate globally to tail off in a manageable manner and our overall situation as human beings to continue to improve. Not that I don't expect significant disruptions along the way but I think the long term future is bright.

The climate change issue is starting to negate any possibility of food stocks keeping up. Areas that were once fertile are becoming deserts, including parts of the USA. When rains do come they are much more likely to be torrential and wash away topsoil. So the average rainfall may not look so bad but the environment will be unsuitable for agriculture. We cannot possibly pipe in enough water to keep the areas affected viable.

I agree that science can help which is why I alluded to everyone getting a piece of the pie, which means creating a reasonably stable environment worldwide so that there is food to distribute where needed. So far our efforts to cut our excessive consumption and spend on environmental things is anemic. Once the Arctic's trapped methane gets added to the greenhouse, we may not be able to reverse course until after a disaster wipes out a huge chunk of the world's population and nearly all the economy. We need to get serious now, and think globally, not just our own political jurisdiction - nature doesn't recognize the latter!

[geofflambert]

American farmers are now producing more food than the market will bear. We need to start reforesting our continent in a big way to lock up some carbon. Nobody is working on a better way of scrubbing carbon out of the atmosphere. Until there's money in it, nobody will. We will live and die in a capitalist economy and we need to monetize carbon reduction somehow.

[MakeeLearn]

Alvy has a clear understanding of our situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U1-OmAICpU

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

American farmers are now producing more food than the market will bear. We need to start reforesting our continent in a big way to lock up some carbon. Nobody is working on a better way of scrubbing carbon out of the atmosphere. Until there's money in it, nobody will. We will live and die in a capitalist economy and we need to monetize carbon reduction somehow.

Right - we need to figure out how to make alcohol from CO2. Just a matter of adding some hydrogen, right? We use solar energy to split ocean H2O and release the O2 into the atmosphere while keeping the H2 for use in our brew! Then we market it to wargamers ...

[MakeeLearn]

It's only going to get worse. Be prepared!

[Will_L]

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

I'm with CB on this one. I anticipate the growth rate globally to tail off in a manageable manner and our overall situation as human beings to continue to improve. Not that I don't expect significant disruptions along the way but I think the long term future is bright.

Feel the same way.
Fastest way to slow growth rate? Stable electrical grid, high speed internet & porn.

[jdsrae]

ORIGINAL: Will_L

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

I'm with CB on this one. I anticipate the growth rate globally to tail off in a manageable manner and our overall situation as human beings to continue to improve. Not that I don't expect significant disruptions along the way but I think the long term future is bright.

Feel the same way.
Fastest way to slow growth rate? Stable electrical grid, high speed internet & porn.

In best David Attenborough voice:
One should not underestimate the strength of the biological urge of the female of the species to procreate.
It has been known to overcome the gravitational like pull on the male of even the most stable electrical grid and highest speed internet.

[Kursk1943]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

American farmers are now producing more food than the market will bear. We need to start reforesting our continent in a big way to lock up some carbon. Nobody is working on a better way of scrubbing carbon out of the atmosphere. Until there's money in it, nobody will. We will live and die in a capitalist economy and we need to monetize carbon reduction somehow.

Would be interesting to know about the situation on Gorn's homeplanet...

[RangerJoe]

I respectfully disagree on monetizing carbon reduction and such things to reduce global warming. The Earth would be an ice ball if it weren't for global warming. Think of the CO2 as a resource and use it as such. There is a method to absorb CO2 from the atmosphere using the MgO to MgCO3 conversion. Then the carbon could be removed and it could be used for things such as growing algae. The algae could be grown in a growing medium such as the wastewater from a waste treatment plant with any other nutrients added. Some algae are very high oil producers. But the algae could be consumed directly by humans, used as an animal feed, and/or broken down with the resulting carbohydrates, proteins, lipids, and other chemicals separated. Those items could be used a resources for other things such as the carbohydrates used to produce ethanol, the proteins to be fed to vegans/vegetarians, and so on.

There is a process to turn organic waste into the equivalent of DF2, with further refining it can be turned into gasoline, kerosene, diesel fuel, carbon black, and methane. The methane is used onsite. The process used 15 BTUs to generate 100 BTUs of energy. The ethanol made from corn (an edible food source for many creatures) uses 100 BTUs to generate 80 BTUs of energy. Besides the damage to the environment from other farming practices, the excessive use of herbicides and pesticides is harmful to the environment. The same process can be used to clean coal and oil. Here is an article about the process:

http://discovermagazine.com/2003/may/featoil

As far as the have-nots attacking the haves, I could get into that but I don't know how far I could get without getting banned.

[Will_L]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

ORIGINAL: Will_L

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

I'm with CB on this one. I anticipate the growth rate globally to tail off in a manageable manner and our overall situation as human beings to continue to improve. Not that I don't expect significant disruptions along the way but I think the long term future is bright.

Feel the same way.
Fastest way to slow growth rate? Stable electrical grid, high speed internet & porn.

In best David Attenborough voice:
One should not underestimate the strength of the biological urge of the female of the species to procreate.
It has been known to overcome the gravitational like pull on the male of even the most stable electrical grid and highest speed internet.

Nice, could hear that as I read it.

[Macclan5]

No political - apolitical - no right left no progressive conservative [8D]

....and alas .... with all due respect to Lecivius and others....

My children will grow up in a wonderful word; different than mine and one I cannot predict.

But then my mother grew up during the 1930’s in the Canadian Prairies where horse and carriage were the primary form of transportation, most people were born lived and died within a 100km radius; not even 100 years ago.

(1) Politicized - Alarmist - Reporting - masking serious issues.

(2) Secondly Reporting polarizing societies/groups as "for us or against us" uncompromising views.

(3) All in the face of the most massive Economic uncertainty and change since the transition from Agricultural to Industrial society... emergence of 2nd and 3rd world economies... Information technology.. traditional work redefined.

(4) That almost completely ignores the most amazing human ability to innovate in unpredictable ways.

--

I am NOT debating the scientific merits of "Over / Under population... Global Warming... I am not a “challenge denier”

I am debating the "negative alarmist messaging" that focuses people’s attention on what they are about to lose and not on 10000 small innovative ideas that typically grow into a massive good change.

Little things like letting "freemen farm instead of Serfs" and earn a little profit. Little things like make a thousand cars on the line - all black - and sell them cheaper. Little things like use connected computers on a 'web' to exchange research papers and it becomes....

Sadly the lessons of history are being lost. [;)]

1968 - Paul Erlich - "Population Bomb"... Humanity has lost the fight to feed itself. India will starve by 1980 – Billions lost. [>:]

1996 - Didsbury et al - "Future Vision: Ideas, Insights Strategies"... America trains 10 lawyers for every Engineer - Japan trains 10 engineers for every lawyer .. Japan's economy is the model for wealth creation for the next 50 years or longer.... [>:]

2006 - Gore - "Inconvenient Truth" - By 2014 all the glaciers are melted and Florida and Manhattan is under water.... [>:]

2009 - Rubin - "Your world is about to get smaller" ... no New Zealand Lamb in US supermarkets because Oil at $225 USD per barrel means the "global economy" will become a local economy... [>:]

There are real challenges and real issues.

However my 3 daughters are better educated, better traveled, better medicine, more socially aware and mature, and far more globally aware of actions and consequences than I ever was at that age (22/18/15).

They will innovate and mitigate the worst and create new good.[8D]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

No political - apolitical - no right left no progressive conservative [8D]

....and alas .... with all due respect to Lecivius and others....

My children will grow up in a wonderful word; different than mine and one I cannot predict.

But then my mother grew up during the 1930’s in the Canadian Prairies where horse and carriage were the primary form of transportation, most people were born lived and died within a 100km radius; not even 100 years ago.

(1) Politicized - Alarmist - Reporting - masking serious issues.

(2) Secondly Reporting polarizing societies/groups as "for us or against us" uncompromising views.

(3) All in the face of the most massive Economic uncertainty and change since the transition from Agricultural to Industrial society... emergence of 2nd and 3rd world economies... Information technology.. traditional work redefined.

(4) That almost completely ignores the most amazing human ability to innovate in unpredictable ways.

--

I am NOT debating the scientific merits of "Over / Under population... Global Warming... I am not a “challenge denier”

I am debating the "negative alarmist messaging" that focuses people’s attention on what they are about to lose and not on 10000 small innovative ideas that typically grow into a massive good change.

Little things like letting "freemen farm instead of Serfs" and earn a little profit. Little things like make a thousand cars on the line - all black - and sell them cheaper. Little things like use connected computers on a 'web' to exchange research papers and it becomes....

Sadly the lessons of history are being lost. [;)]

1968 - Paul Erlich - "Population Bomb"... Humanity has lost the fight to feed itself. India will starve by 1980 – Billions lost. [>:]

1996 - Didsbury et al - "Future Vision: Ideas, Insights Strategies"... America trains 10 lawyers for every Engineer - Japan trains 10 engineers for every lawyer .. Japan's economy is the model for wealth creation for the next 50 years or longer.... [>:]

2006 - Gore - "Inconvenient Truth" - By 2014 all the glaciers are melted and Florida and Manhattan is under water.... [>:]

2009 - Rubin - "Your world is about to get smaller" ... no New Zealand Lamb in US supermarkets because Oil at $225 USD per barrel means the "global economy" will become a local economy... [>:]

There are real challenges and real issues.

However my 3 daughters are better educated, better traveled, better medicine, more socially aware and mature, and far more globally aware of actions and consequences than I ever was at that age (22/18/15).

They will innovate and mitigate the worst and create new good.[8D]

I recognize the issue of panic overstatements and generally do not buy into them. But having lived for an average lifetime, I have seen changes that started gradually (like all the ponds I used to catch frogs at when I was a kid having no amphibian life whatsoever when I went back 20 years later) and have been visibly accelerating over the last 20 years.

In the past 8 or so years the winters in Winnipeg have gotten warmer overall, but extremely variable every few days - temperature swings from near melting to -40 with strong winds in between. It corresponds perfectly with the scientific fact that the more energy you put into a closed system the more violent will be the reactions therein.

Wetlands that we have had since the last ice-age are drying out with disastrous consequences for the waterfowl and other critters that depend on them, and the steady flow of our rivers. Instead we get rivers dropping to record lows and then surging in floods brought on by heavy rains and unchecked runoff.

Technology may offer solutions but if we, individually or as a society, fail to implement them because they are expensive, it will be a case of too-little-too-late.
So far I am not encouraged by our efforts to tackle the problems. I hope I am wrong.

[scout1]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Did mankind benefit in any way from this effort? Did we learn anything new? No? Then it is a vanity project that should not be supported. Mountains that high can be admired from below 10K feet.

Well, people in general routinely spend an incredible amount of resources for stuff mankind does not benefit from. If you and your partners band together to do things, then as long as those things are not harmful to the others and as long as you pay then nobody should have a say in how you should spend your time and money. Free enterprise includes doing stupid things - those are at start indistinguishable from things that are seemingly stupid but can be useful

Spending their own money -fine. Getting support from online donations, maybe (but there are so many others needing real help), but when countries start using tax dollars to "finance an expedition" so they can take some pictures - it's a vanity project with the politicians taking part.

Hell, that line is worse than the bathroom line at a ball game at half time .....

[scout1]

ORIGINAL: MuguNiner

Did this topic take a chill pill? Page 3? Here's something to wake up to...

Just takes my breath away

[BBfanboy]

Changing the particular subject (but not the spirit of the thread), did you know that in some parts of Canada "blue balls" can cause auto pile-ups?

https://globalnews.ca/news/5380746/4-ve ... lake-road/

[MuguNiner]

Congrats to the GORN! What do you call the Stanley Cup on Gorn?

[scout1]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

My definitive copy of Everest

Begs for the question at this point as to ….. Why ?

no longer a "first" ….