This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!
If I remember right he was surprised by the supply usage when he got a number of late war LCU reinforcements. As stated by BBFanboy, the Japanese economy was not well understood early on.
It was fuel expenditure that killed him, as he was unable to fuel his heavy industry as he'd ran the KB from ocean to ocean wiping out Allied carrier fleets.
To be honest, a great deal of that game is rose-tinted glasses. Andy Mac did not have as much interest in the naval or air games as he did the ground war, and his game suffered for it as a result.
It's well worth reading, but be careful what conclusions you draw from it.
mind_messing,
The "rose-tinted glasses" understandably were worn by all those Japanese players who having no direct access to the devs, nor to the private development fora where game design/mechanics were discussed and analysed, were amazed at the results achieved by PzB. They didn't know that PzB had all those advantages which they themselves lacked as they tried to come to grips with game design and mechanics.
If anything you are downplaying his logistical limitations. It was not just a problem derived from tactical fuel consumption from over use of the KB. There were other significant long term logistical considerations which he sacrificed for short term gain. Then as the long term costs came into play, HRs were implemented in his match and there were requests for the devs to change game mechanics.
It is neither the quality of the player playing the match, nor the particular scenario, which is of much value in assessing the value of an AAR. What is important is the quality of the discussion contained within the AAR.
The best AARs have significant contributions from knowledgeable forum identities which raise and analyse strategy, tactics, logistics, game mechanics etc. Not all contributions from the peanut gallery are that good, in fact often they are downright terrible. A selective list of good quality AAR non dev contributors not already referred to in this thread (apologies to those not included but the list had to remain manageable), not all of whom have written AARs nor remain regular posters today, would include:
Nemo
Cribtop
PaxMondo
Crackaces
Lokasenna
Lowpe
The above focussed on commenting in Japanese AAR and a careful reading of their posts in or outside AARs is valuable.
Alfred
It is neither the quality of the player playing the match, nor the particular scenario, which is of much value in assessing the value of an AAR. What is important is the quality of the discussion contained within the AAR.
The best AARs have significant contributions from knowledgeable forum identities which raise and analyse strategy, tactics, logistics, game mechanics etc. Not all contributions from the peanut gallery are that good, in fact often they are downright terrible. A selective list of good quality AAR non dev contributors not already referred to in this thread (apologies to those not included but the list had to remain manageable), not all of whom have written AARs nor remain regular posters today, would include:
Nemo
Cribtop
PaxMondo
Crackaces
Lokasenna
Lowpe
The above focussed on commenting in Japanese AAR and a careful reading of their posts in or outside AARs is valuable.
Alfred
One of my favourites; RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
It even has an index page to help get you to the meaty bits fast! It is a great read, and to my mind really embodies the huge scope and nature of the game, and the comradarie of these forums.
Lots of discussion of IJ economy and set up, with contributions from most of those on Alfred's list.
It is neither the quality of the player playing the match, nor the particular scenario, which is of much value in assessing the value of an AAR. What is important is the quality of the discussion contained within the AAR.
The best AARs have significant contributions from knowledgeable forum identities which raise and analyse strategy, tactics, logistics, game mechanics etc. Not all contributions from the peanut gallery are that good, in fact often they are downright terrible. A selective list of good quality AAR non dev contributors not already referred to in this thread (apologies to those not included but the list had to remain manageable), not all of whom have written AARs nor remain regular posters today, would include:
Nemo
Cribtop
PaxMondo
Crackaces
Lokasenna
Lowpe
The above focussed on commenting in Japanese AAR and a careful reading of their posts in or outside AARs is valuable.
Alfred
One of my favourites; RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
It even has an index page to help get you to the meaty bits fast! It is a great read, and to my mind really embodies the huge scope and nature of the game, and the comradarie of these forums.
Lots of discussion of IJ economy and set up, with contributions from most of those on Alfred's list.
I still follow this one, although lately it has gone dormant once more. Mile gets busy sometimes and has also recently started a second game.
I'd save reading this one for when and if you intend to tackle the Japanese economy.
All this being said above is good, but you have to realize one thing. You will develop your own game style and mode of play. All of which will change so many of the things done by other players. As for myself I do things that would have players here howling, but that's me. OTOH its one reason I still play the AI as I'd like to at least have an idea that my 'style' will work in the long run. Things are looking OK so far. Now if I could just clear my calendar enough to make the PBEM commitment.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Surely I will play the Japanese, maybe for the first campaign game is better to start with the Allied side.
Now if I could just clear my calendar enough to make the PBEM commitment.
I'm making my WitP-AE daily routine, moving stuff is not so long if you take notes but I'm spending lot of time thinking about the tactics, maybe because I'm new and after a while will be faster.
maybe for the first campaign game is better to start with the Allied side.
Yeah, I'd say that's the better choice. TBH its taken me forever to get to where I think I've gotten the most that can be gotten out of Japan's economy. Was it worth the time? Maybe, but then again I could have been playing an Allied PBEM for some time now. Then again someone has to be Japan. But... and on and on.[:D]
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
I’ve been playing vs the AI for years and found that entertaining enough, but about a year ago started to think about a PBeM scenario 1 game.
It’s such a huge investment of time that before I do that I want to make sure I’d at least pose a moderate challenge to keep the other person interested.
I feel that I have to at least be “ok” at managing every aspect of the game as even against the AI if I neglect any aspect it can teach you a lesson.
In the last year I’ve read most of those AARs and am still tracking a few. They all give information that has helped me figure out what might work and what to try and avoid.
That includes cycling through all of the following on a regular basis:
1. select and maintain a clear strategic intent, between allied nations or Inter-service if playing as Japan
2. have a clear mission in each theatre
3. keep your order of battle organised, so you get the most out of each of the units you have. Before you get into the tactical detail of giving orders to units you need to have assigned what you think are the right forces to each area on the map
4. develop and track what the enemy has where, the intelligence picture, so you can factor that into your planning cycle
5. Understand industry and production rates of fuel, supply and war machines and how they constrain your operations planning
6. Understand the map, terrain has a big impact on land combat and supply movement
7. Setup and maintain your on map pilot training force
8. The whole point of playing is to try and win, so understand the victory points ratios and consider that in your operations planning
Once you’ve got all of the above and more sorted out, your tactical play will be more effective and more of a challenge to another person.
Assign balanced joint forces to missions at the operational level including land, air and naval assets.
Land combat
1. develop an understanding of firepower strength of your units compared to the enemy, it’s more important than raw Assault Value. Eg: a Chinese infantry unit with 100 AV will be crushed in open terrain vs a Japan 100 AV mixed infantry brigade.
2. If you don’t like the land campaign in China, learn to like it. At the strategic level, Japan can use as many of China’s Resources as that means they don’t have to send ships further to get them and the Supply generated there is handy to capture too
3. Everything else written about land combat from Sun Tzu, Guderian, et al
4. Understand what HQ unit bonuses do for you, including Air HQ which provide torpedoes and also Naval HQ naval support squads (or tenders) can do for your ship rearming - this is a big one to keep your ships fighting after day 1
Air combat
1. Develop an understanding of each air mission and when it is useful
2. Review all aircraft types and develop your understanding of comparative strengths and weaknesses
3. Don’t forget about night naval search or other night flying operations
4. Try to avoid flying unescorted bombers against enemy fighters
5. Try to avoid flying naval search into heavy enemy combat air patrols
Naval combat
1. Review the capabilities of every ship type and class, they all have a role to play
2. Always assign ASW capable escorts within task forces
3. Try to keep fighter cover over your task forces in contested or enemy waters
It really is an awesome game with its level of historical detail and preparing myself to play a grand campaign pbem is my ultimate goal too.
Don't forget to learn the repair system and thus the best way to use your repair ships (including tenders) as well as naval support squads. You can move the naval support squads quickly to a small base to help with quick repairs to a damaged ship and the enemy might not notice the movement so then the port is not attacked.
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child
In the meantine that I'm playing small scenarios I'd like to read some good AARs about scenario 1 (any side) because it will be my next step.
I already checked the "Useful Info for Beginner" topic but the AAR list is quite old.
Do you have any suggestions?
As always, thanks for the support!
I'll add my first full campaign AAR to the list since it is also Scen 1.
I would look at Mike Solli's extensively before ever dipping into this. Then check Miller's for a good quick look at how the war progresses to the finish since those guys have raced through the campaign (and Miller has shown what a top player can do to balance strong tactical and strategic play with a solid understanding of the economy required to still be fighting in the endgame).
This one though does have a lot of great input from all of the commentators listed by Alfred above (and some from himself I believe) plus others who were invaluable as I learned how to play this monster to the end. I also tried to give frequent data updates to ask for advice on R & D, resources/fuel and the economy as well as the more strategic concerns in the game. At the end there is also a lot of data to look into.
I’ve been playing vs the AI for years and found that entertaining enough, but about a year ago started to think about a PBeM scenario 1 game.
It’s such a huge investment of time that before I do that I want to make sure I’d at least pose a moderate challenge to keep the other person interested.
I feel that I have to at least be “ok” at managing every aspect of the game as even against the AI if I neglect any aspect it can teach you a lesson.
In the last year I’ve read most of those AARs and am still tracking a few. They all give information that has helped me figure out what might work and what to try and avoid.
That includes cycling through all of the following on a regular basis:
1. select and maintain a clear strategic intent, between allied nations or Inter-service if playing as Japan
2. have a clear mission in each theatre
3. keep your order of battle organised, so you get the most out of each of the units you have. Before you get into the tactical detail of giving orders to units you need to have assigned what you think are the right forces to each area on the map
4. develop and track what the enemy has where, the intelligence picture, so you can factor that into your planning cycle
5. Understand industry and production rates of fuel, supply and war machines and how they constrain your operations planning
6. Understand the map, terrain has a big impact on land combat and supply movement
7. Setup and maintain your on map pilot training force
8. The whole point of playing is to try and win, so understand the victory points ratios and consider that in your operations planning
Once you’ve got all of the above and more sorted out, your tactical play will be more effective and more of a challenge to another person.
Assign balanced joint forces to missions at the operational level including land, air and naval assets.
Land combat
1. develop an understanding of firepower strength of your units compared to the enemy, it’s more important than raw Assault Value. Eg: a Chinese infantry unit with 100 AV will be crushed in open terrain vs a Japan 100 AV mixed infantry brigade.
2. If you don’t like the land campaign in China, learn to like it. At the strategic level, Japan can use as many of China’s Resources as that means they don’t have to send ships further to get them and the Supply generated there is handy to capture too
3. Everything else written about land combat from Sun Tzu, Guderian, et al
4. Understand what HQ unit bonuses do for you, including Air HQ which provide torpedoes and also Naval HQ naval support squads (or tenders) can do for your ship rearming - this is a big one to keep your ships fighting after day 1
Air combat
1. Develop an understanding of each air mission and when it is useful
2. Review all aircraft types and develop your understanding of comparative strengths and weaknesses
3. Don’t forget about night naval search or other night flying operations
4. Try to avoid flying unescorted bombers against enemy fighters
5. Try to avoid flying naval search into heavy enemy combat air patrols
Naval combat
1. Review the capabilities of every ship type and class, they all have a role to play
2. Always assign ASW capable escorts within task forces
3. Try to keep fighter cover over your task forces in contested or enemy waters
It really is an awesome game with its level of historical detail and preparing myself to play a grand campaign pbem is my ultimate goal too.
Have fun!
A great list, jksrae! [&o]
From a picayune tactical perspective, I would add one tidbit. As the Japanese player you have many units that are fragments of larger organic units that will be reassembled 'later'. Identify those subunits with an asterix near their name and work to co-mingle them with their other subunits in order to reassemble / transform them into larger units. Your armored divisions will be more effective as a larger conglomerate, suffer comparatively limited disruption and so forth versus the constellation of armored regiments, scout forces, engineer units, etc. that make up their subunits. They're also easier to track and assign consistent tactical goals (and prep) when they're combined units verus the fragmented smaller ones.
I’ve been playing vs the AI for years and found that entertaining enough, but about a year ago started to think about a PBeM scenario 1 game.
It’s such a huge investment of time that before I do that I want to make sure I’d at least pose a moderate challenge to keep the other person interested.
I feel that I have to at least be “ok” at managing every aspect of the game as even against the AI if I neglect any aspect it can teach you a lesson.
In the last year I’ve read most of those AARs and am still tracking a few. They all give information that has helped me figure out what might work and what to try and avoid.
That includes cycling through all of the following on a regular basis:
1. select and maintain a clear strategic intent, between allied nations or Inter-service if playing as Japan
2. have a clear mission in each theatre
3. keep your order of battle organised, so you get the most out of each of the units you have. Before you get into the tactical detail of giving orders to units you need to have assigned what you think are the right forces to each area on the map
4. develop and track what the enemy has where, the intelligence picture, so you can factor that into your planning cycle
5. Understand industry and production rates of fuel, supply and war machines and how they constrain your operations planning
6. Understand the map, terrain has a big impact on land combat and supply movement
7. Setup and maintain your on map pilot training force
8. The whole point of playing is to try and win, so understand the victory points ratios and consider that in your operations planning
Once you’ve got all of the above and more sorted out, your tactical play will be more effective and more of a challenge to another person.
Assign balanced joint forces to missions at the operational level including land, air and naval assets.
Land combat
1. develop an understanding of firepower strength of your units compared to the enemy, it’s more important than raw Assault Value. Eg: a Chinese infantry unit with 100 AV will be crushed in open terrain vs a Japan 100 AV mixed infantry brigade.
2. If you don’t like the land campaign in China, learn to like it. At the strategic level, Japan can use as many of China’s Resources as that means they don’t have to send ships further to get them and the Supply generated there is handy to capture too
3. Everything else written about land combat from Sun Tzu, Guderian, et al
4. Understand what HQ unit bonuses do for you, including Air HQ which provide torpedoes and also Naval HQ naval support squads (or tenders) can do for your ship rearming - this is a big one to keep your ships fighting after day 1
Air combat
1. Develop an understanding of each air mission and when it is useful
2. Review all aircraft types and develop your understanding of comparative strengths and weaknesses
3. Don’t forget about night naval search or other night flying operations
4. Try to avoid flying unescorted bombers against enemy fighters
5. Try to avoid flying naval search into heavy enemy combat air patrols
Naval combat
1. Review the capabilities of every ship type and class, they all have a role to play
2. Always assign ASW capable escorts within task forces
3. Try to keep fighter cover over your task forces in contested or enemy waters
It really is an awesome game with its level of historical detail and preparing myself to play a grand campaign pbem is my ultimate goal too.
Have fun!
Thanks you for your guide especially for the strategic points.
You wrote "develop/understanding" in few points, where do you have learned these informations? (AARs, topics, hard way, etc.)
Don't forget to learn the repair system and thus the best way to use your repair ships (including tenders) as well as naval support squads. You can move the naval support squads quickly to a small base to help with quick repairs to a damaged ship and the enemy might not notice the movement so then the port is not attacked.
I found a great post "Ship Repair 101 Guide" by Alfred [:)]
In the meantine that I'm playing small scenarios I'd like to read some good AARs about scenario 1 (any side) because it will be my next step.
I already checked the "Useful Info for Beginner" topic but the AAR list is quite old.
Do you have any suggestions?
As always, thanks for the support!
I'll add my first full campaign AAR to the list since it is also Scen 1.
I would look at Mike Solli's extensively before ever dipping into this. Then check Miller's for a good quick look at how the war progresses to the finish since those guys have raced through the campaign (and Miller has shown what a top player can do to balance strong tactical and strategic play with a solid understanding of the economy required to still be fighting in the endgame).
This one though does have a lot of great input from all of the commentators listed by Alfred above (and some from himself I believe) plus others who were invaluable as I learned how to play this monster to the end. I also tried to give frequent data updates to ask for advice on R & D, resources/fuel and the economy as well as the more strategic concerns in the game. At the end there is also a lot of data to look into.
I’ve been playing vs the AI for years and found that entertaining enough, but about a year ago started to think about a PBeM scenario 1 game.
It’s such a huge investment of time that before I do that I want to make sure I’d at least pose a moderate challenge to keep the other person interested.
I feel that I have to at least be “ok” at managing every aspect of the game as even against the AI if I neglect any aspect it can teach you a lesson.
In the last year I’ve read most of those AARs and am still tracking a few. They all give information that has helped me figure out what might work and what to try and avoid.
That includes cycling through all of the following on a regular basis:
1. select and maintain a clear strategic intent, between allied nations or Inter-service if playing as Japan
2. have a clear mission in each theatre
3. keep your order of battle organised, so you get the most out of each of the units you have. Before you get into the tactical detail of giving orders to units you need to have assigned what you think are the right forces to each area on the map
4. develop and track what the enemy has where, the intelligence picture, so you can factor that into your planning cycle
5. Understand industry and production rates of fuel, supply and war machines and how they constrain your operations planning
6. Understand the map, terrain has a big impact on land combat and supply movement
7. Setup and maintain your on map pilot training force
8. The whole point of playing is to try and win, so understand the victory points ratios and consider that in your operations planning
Once you’ve got all of the above and more sorted out, your tactical play will be more effective and more of a challenge to another person.
Assign balanced joint forces to missions at the operational level including land, air and naval assets.
Land combat
1. develop an understanding of firepower strength of your units compared to the enemy, it’s more important than raw Assault Value. Eg: a Chinese infantry unit with 100 AV will be crushed in open terrain vs a Japan 100 AV mixed infantry brigade.
2. If you don’t like the land campaign in China, learn to like it. At the strategic level, Japan can use as many of China’s Resources as that means they don’t have to send ships further to get them and the Supply generated there is handy to capture too
3. Everything else written about land combat from Sun Tzu, Guderian, et al
4. Understand what HQ unit bonuses do for you, including Air HQ which provide torpedoes and also Naval HQ naval support squads (or tenders) can do for your ship rearming - this is a big one to keep your ships fighting after day 1
Air combat
1. Develop an understanding of each air mission and when it is useful
2. Review all aircraft types and develop your understanding of comparative strengths and weaknesses
3. Don’t forget about night naval search or other night flying operations
4. Try to avoid flying unescorted bombers against enemy fighters
5. Try to avoid flying naval search into heavy enemy combat air patrols
Naval combat
1. Review the capabilities of every ship type and class, they all have a role to play
2. Always assign ASW capable escorts within task forces
3. Try to keep fighter cover over your task forces in contested or enemy waters
It really is an awesome game with its level of historical detail and preparing myself to play a grand campaign pbem is my ultimate goal too.
Have fun!
A great list, jksrae! [&o]
From a picayune tactical perspective, I would add one tidbit. As the Japanese player you have many units that are fragments of larger organic units that will be reassembled 'later'. Identify those subunits with an asterix near their name and work to co-mingle them with their other subunits in order to reassemble / transform them into larger units. Your armored divisions will be more effective as a larger conglomerate, suffer comparatively limited disruption and so forth versus the constellation of armored regiments, scout forces, engineer units, etc. that make up their subunits. They're also easier to track and assign consistent tactical goals (and prep) when they're combined units verus the fragmented smaller ones.
Therefore you suggest to combine units into divisions or brigades for a better efficacy, but I have a question now:
if I launch an assault, a three regiments attack outcome would be different respect a full division assault?
