Patch 1.16 playthrough vs allied AI

[hellraiser1973]

Started a game vs Allied AI to get an ideea of the impact of the patch changes:

1. Bomber nerfs - yep you can feel them, especially early on. Once they get ground attack tech and some xp/and under a good HQ they are strong but obviously not as strong as before. You feel the nerfs in the polish and french campaign - maybe add one more turn for poland and france sometimes.
You can feel it in Malta, the island may survive a little bit longer. And you definitely feel them in North Africa - actually wherever there is a bottle neck, you have to rely more on your ground units now.

2. Sub nerfs - not really funny at all. Axis have only 2 options for resupply before the fall of france - Greenland (until the americans take over it) and Iceland (for even less time). You got the option of operating a bomber to Rejkjavik and keep Iceland but that will incur US wrath (+8% increase in readiness). So extended raiding campaigns are difficult now.

3. AI offensive planning - late 42, US amphib transports spotted in south atlantic - with gibraltar still allied, Axis decide to sneak ships past the rock, two at the time. Algeria in axis hands. Axis fleet intercept US transports and escorting fleet, huge battle, etc - some amphib manage to escape BUT to Gibraltar - tunnel vision operation Torch? I mean the invasion fleet amounted to str 1 amphib, str 4 amphib and str 10 amphib - once the allies decide to go somewhere, they just go for it no matter what? OFC they got sunk near the Rock - why not making their way back, regroup and live to fight another day?

4. AI defensive planning - on the eastern front I noticed the tendency of the allied AI to hold on to certain cities, even forming a huge bulge in the german frontline, with multiple units, without HQs - if they keep a railroad open, they continue to bring more units to the slaughterhouse - yea, it slows me down a little bit but losing so many units for no apparent strategic goal? If slowing down the Axis while building up in other areas was the goal, it would have made sense.

[PvtBenjamin]

ORIGINAL: hellraiser1973


2. Sub nerfs - not really funny at all. Axis have only 2 options for resupply before the fall of france - Greenland (until the americans take over it) and Iceland (for even less time). You got the option of operating a bomber to Rejkjavik and keep Iceland but that will incur US wrath (+8% increase in readiness). So extended raiding campaigns are difficult now.

Interesting update thanks.


Hurrah !! No longer possible to put unsinkable zero supply subs at the extremes of the map that continue to block supply & gain experience for years. Looks like it will take more strategy now.

The Axis taking Iceland certainly is more interesting now but given the US mobilization impact it probably still makes it a poor move.

If Spanish diplomacy is handled correctly the Axis have ports to re supply from Northern Finland to Santa Cruz as the game progresses.

Sealion strategies will also have to be adjusted. The British did have a large naval advantage in the real war after all.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: hellraiser1973

Started a game vs Allied AI to get an ideea of the impact of the patch changes:

1. Bomber nerfs - yep you can feel them, especially early on. Once they get ground attack tech and some xp/and under a good HQ they are strong but obviously not as strong as before. You feel the nerfs in the polish and french campaign - maybe add one more turn for poland and france sometimes.
You can feel it in Malta, the island may survive a little bit longer. And you definitely feel them in North Africa - actually wherever there is a bottle neck, you have to rely more on your ground units now.

2. Sub nerfs - not really funny at all. Axis have only 2 options for resupply before the fall of france - Greenland (until the americans take over it) and Iceland (for even less time). You got the option of operating a bomber to Rejkjavik and keep Iceland but that will incur US wrath (+8% increase in readiness). So extended raiding campaigns are difficult now.

3. AI offensive planning - late 42, US amphib transports spotted in south atlantic - with gibraltar still allied, Axis decide to sneak ships past the rock, two at the time. Algeria in axis hands. Axis fleet intercept US transports and escorting fleet, huge battle, etc - some amphib manage to escape BUT to Gibraltar - tunnel vision operation Torch? I mean the invasion fleet amounted to str 1 amphib, str 4 amphib and str 10 amphib - once the allies decide to go somewhere, they just go for it no matter what? OFC they got sunk near the Rock - why not making their way back, regroup and live to fight another day?

4. AI defensive planning - on the eastern front I noticed the tendency of the allied AI to hold on to certain cities, even forming a huge bulge in the german frontline, with multiple units, without HQs - if they keep a railroad open, they continue to bring more units to the slaughterhouse - yea, it slows me down a little bit but losing so many units for no apparent strategic goal? If slowing down the Axis while building up in other areas was the goal, it would have made sense.

Interesting...I've always thought the allied AI should only go straight for the safest route first... Morocco (a la Torch) and then precede to everything else as going straight into the Med is too dangerous..

[hellraiser1973]

Just ended the game, spring 43 - allies offered peace after the three important russian cities had fallen.

After the FoW was lifted, I noticed the same issue as in previous patches: England was choke full of ground units but only 1-2 planes while the US mainland was stacked with planes of all types.
Aside from the ill fated Torch operation, the western allies did absolutely nothing to threaten Axis except for one interesting development: Axis took Iraq and then move on to liberate Persia and go up north thru Caucasus. At some point, a polish corps was formed in the Mid East which started to move into Iraq. Is this polish corps supposed to appear even if Axis conquered Iraq?

[hellraiser1973]

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

ORIGINAL: hellraiser1973


2. Sub nerfs - not really funny at all. Axis have only 2 options for resupply before the fall of france - Greenland (until the americans take over it) and Iceland (for even less time). You got the option of operating a bomber to Rejkjavik and keep Iceland but that will incur US wrath (+8% increase in readiness). So extended raiding campaigns are difficult now.

Interesting update thanks.


Hurrah !! No longer possible to put unsinkable zero supply subs at the extremes of the map that continue to block supply & gain experience for years. Looks like it will take more strategy now.

The Axis taking Iceland certainly is more interesting now but given the US mobilization impact it probably still makes it a poor move.

If Spanish diplomacy is handled correctly the Axis have ports to re supply from Northern Finland to Santa Cruz as the game progresses.

Sealion strategies will also have to be adjusted. The British did have a large naval advantage in the real war after all.

Ok PvtBenjamin, I understand your concerns about those subs - I agree there had to be some sort of penalty for out of supply subs like there are for ground units. I just feel it's been overdone a little bit. There are alternate tactics to this. In order to disrupt UK mpp flow you may do the following:
1. Diplo Iraq - once they go below 20% allied leaning, they stop the convoy - that's 70 mpps per turn - A LOT. You need just on diplo hit here as opposed to diploing Spain for example, which is unlikely to go into the Axis fold once the opponent blocks you and defend Casablanca.

2. Use the initial subs, the light cruiser in the Atlantic and 1-2 more surface ships for the mpp war against the UK - subs raid till they go out of supply and the surface vessels sail full steam to the canadian port. 3 ships adjacent to the port will reduce the strength of the port thus cancelling the canadian convoy to the UK.

3. Build the Breslau paratrooper (accept the decision) and use him to capture Copenhagen - you get Iceland (for a few turns) and Greenland for a few more turns - places to resupply your subs - the problem here is : expect your supply stations to be camped by the Royal Navy.

Ref your Sealion comment - I fully agree. With the bomber nerfs, the inability to overbuy your 3rd paratrooper (as of 1.16), Sealion is a very difficult endeavour unless the allied player pretty much invites you to do it by sending his ground and naval assets elsewhere.

[Hubert Cater]

ORIGINAL: hellraiser1973

Just ended the game, spring 43 - allies offered peace after the three important russian cities had fallen.

After the FoW was lifted, I noticed the same issue as in previous patches: England was choke full of ground units but only 1-2 planes while the US mainland was stacked with planes of all types.
Aside from the ill fated Torch operation, the western allies did absolutely nothing to threaten Axis except for one interesting development: Axis took Iraq and then move on to liberate Persia and go up north thru Caucasus. At some point, a polish corps was formed in the Mid East which started to move into Iraq. Is this polish corps supposed to appear even if Axis conquered Iraq?

The Western Allied planning arc for invading France would be from Spring 1943 and onwards. This just means that under the right conditions it could invade in the Spring of 1943 (assuming a unit threshold has been met and that the naval conditions are favourable) or in the Spring of 1944.

If the game has already ended for you by Spring of 1943 then it is likely the case that it ended too soon, and/or the conditions were also not favourable at the time. In most cases it would be a combination of the two and especially so if the Allies attempted Torch as then it would have likely planned and prepared for an invasion in 1944.

My suggestion here is to ramp up the difficulty level if your games are ending in total victory by early 1943 as otherwise not much will likely change from the AI side due to my outline above.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

[hellraiser1973]

ok ty for the insight, makes sense now