Notes from a Small Island

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

P.S. The two markers above detail Union troops movements with only fleeting reference to any Southern units.

The Georgia Historical Marker program placed thousands of markers just like these. Exactly 0% are political. Yet they are included in a graphic meant to suggested, and apparently interpreted as such by a gullible public, as dog-whistling segregationist mementos.

Touché Dan, clearing some tentative and erroneous impressions I had in my ignorance of the details of the issue. I salute you for your firm hold on the truth! [&o]

[JohnDillworth]

The people were unified

Were they? All the people? The blacks, the ex-slaves, the targets of Jim Crow, the families of the lynched, the share croppers, the economically destitute? We're they really all united and joined hands with thier former oppressors to raise monuments? They didn't desent because it may have put them at the end of a rope. When you speak of "all the people" are you really speaking for "all the people"? The people in power did what they did because nobody could stop them but let's not pretend they represented anyone but themsleves

[Canoerebel]

Chilling? Really?

Go ahead. Read the scores and hundreds of Georgia Historic Markers. Let me know when you find something "chilling." And you probably will, eventually. And it'll be one out of 1,500 or something.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

The people were unified

Were they? All the people? The blacks, the ex-slaves, the targets of Jim Crow, the families of the lynched, the share croppers, the economically destitute? We're they really all united and joined hands with thier former oppressors to raise monuments? They didn't desent because it may have put them at the end of a rope. When you speak of "all the people" are you really speaking for "all the people"? The people in power did what they did because nobody could stop them but let's not pretend they represented anyone but themsleves

I covered this yesterday, John, fully and appropriately. I noted that only whites counted in Georgia in 1910 (oh, how regrettable that was). The blacks didn't matter (unfortunately). This was a white controlled and dominated jurisdiction. There was no threat to that in 1910.

[Canoerebel]

More "chilling" history (I'll stop with this example). Did the person who created this graphic have the slightest clue what he was doing? Did he have an agenda? Think about all the people that have read this stuff and thought there was merit to it (as exemplified by a respected Forumite posting it here).

What I find chilling is that people are distorting and misrepresenting our history and the public, whose views have been shaped to accept it, readily do.

P.S. This graphic is small, but this "chilling" monument pays homage to a Union general who died of disease. Think about that. This was offered as evidence (just one part, but a part) of ugly southern behavior. This monument.

P.P.S. Note in the small print that one of the groups who paid to have this marker erected was the "8th Regiment Band." That's a group of re-enactors in my town of Rome, Georgia, who play Civil War music on Civil War-era instruments. They do so in uniform (usually Confederate, but not always). They are some of the terrible, awful southerners doing evil things to harm our country and its people, I guess.

I'm done with this. Can you tell?

[BBfanboy]

The picture did not embed - just a little box with an X in it. If it won't upload, can you post a link?

[Canoerebel]

In closing out this topic, I want to thank you guys for the fiery, fascinating exchange of ideas. I disagree vehemently with some of you, but that doesn't change my level of respect for outstanding folks like JohnD and Lokasenna.

These discussions make me think, bring history alive, help me search for information, examine my viewpoints, and increase my knowledge. Quite often, these exchanges help me form thoughts or passages or topics for articles. So I was actually working today while I was on the Forum.

I love working with history.

[aleajactaest10044]

A note from the gallery...

Long term reader of your AAR's, who tends to provide only rare comments here on the forum. While I have the utmost respect for everyone's views, I come here to read about an AAR involving a game called WitP AE. I think this discussion has really derailed what most of us would like to read about. I will say thank you for sharing the informative article about Maj. Wirz. Having said more than enough, I will unsubscribe from following this AAR, and end my comments here.

[Anachro]

Interesting this is the first time you've seen a thread derailed in a CR AAR. I remember many, many posts on hiking, trees, etc. [:D]

[HansBolter]

Discussions of hiking and trees likely didn't bring the same level of discomfort the current discussion seems to have. Personally, reading it all left me feeling a bit discomfited as well.

I think I understand and appreciate Dan's pain. At least, I think I do. Vilification is never an easy mantle to bear.

[mind_messing]

So a friendly forumite from someplace like Glasgow reads the words you post and the graphics presented and picture in their heads a South in which thousands of Confederate monuments somehow erected to glorify slavery or white supremacy dot the landscape....when that's absolutely, 100% factually untrue. But nobody retracts their misstatements or acknowledges the distortions of the truth.

I enjoy this topic as a nice textbook case of how people can twist the data. Let's look at the most recent and comprehensive study:

https://www.splcenter.org/20190201/whos ... onfederacy

The article discussed the political context, so it's well worth examining the actual data-set.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... yS51E/edit

NB: this excluded battlefield and historical markers that Canoe is discussing.

It's simply not commemeration of historical events. It is physical perpetuation of the pro-white and pro-slavery ideology of the Confederacy.

[Bearcat2]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

So a friendly forumite from someplace like Glasgow reads the words you post and the graphics presented and picture in their heads a South in which thousands of Confederate monuments somehow erected to glorify slavery or white supremacy dot the landscape....when that's absolutely, 100% factually untrue. But nobody retracts their misstatements or acknowledges the distortions of the truth.

I enjoy this topic as a nice textbook case of how people can twist the data. Let's look at the most recent and comprehensive study:

https://www.splcenter.org/20190201/whos ... onfederacy

The article discussed the political context, so it's well worth examining the actual data-set.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... yS51E/edit

NB: this excluded battlefield and historical markers that Canoe is discussing.

It's simply not commemeration of historical events. It is physical perpetuation of the pro-white and pro-slavery ideology of the Confederacy.

Using SPLC as a source crosses the line into the political sphere.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Bearcat2

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

So a friendly forumite from someplace like Glasgow reads the words you post and the graphics presented and picture in their heads a South in which thousands of Confederate monuments somehow erected to glorify slavery or white supremacy dot the landscape....when that's absolutely, 100% factually untrue. But nobody retracts their misstatements or acknowledges the distortions of the truth.

I enjoy this topic as a nice textbook case of how people can twist the data. Let's look at the most recent and comprehensive study:

https://www.splcenter.org/20190201/whos ... onfederacy

The article discussed the political context, so it's well worth examining the actual data-set.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... yS51E/edit

NB: this excluded battlefield and historical markers that Canoe is discussing.

It's simply not commemeration of historical events. It is physical perpetuation of the pro-white and pro-slavery ideology of the Confederacy.

Using SPLC as a source crosses the line into the political sphere.

Hence why the raw, non-politicized data is attached.

[BBfanboy]

OK, everyone - Dan said the discussion is closed and as AAR owner he has the right to expect we will follow suit. Kudos to all for putting forward views without real acrimony developing. I learned a lot and I hope others did too.

[Bearcat2]

**********************************************************************************************************

[Canoerebel]

6/9/45 to 6/22/45

The complexity of Allied operations is beyond comprehension right now. Handling Death Star and the air force in NoPac kept me tediously, fully, onerously busy for the past year. Now, added to that, is the handling of massive fleet operations in the Bay of Bengal, the movement of great armies in Indochina and Malaya, and a second huge air force, this one now dividing between Malaya and China. It's gotten so complex that sometime I don't even look forward to an incoming turn (that's a state of affairs I've never experienced!). But all these complexities are coming together in such a way that finally the Allies can bring total war to Japan. That sounds fun, but the complicating factor is that Japan remains very strong and is handled by a crafty player just waiting to jump all over a mistake or opening, should I allow such.

SEAC: Here's the situation centered on Singapore.

[Canoerebel]

6/9/45 to 6/22/45

Indochina and China: A massive, well-supplied army is on the China border and moving forward. Two things were essential to getting ops underway - a secure supply line with lots of supply, and the moving of several dozen AA units from Burma/Malaya to this point. The timing here was critical - I'll need the AA and I'll need RN Death Star in order to work efficiently in China. With those now available, or soon to be, the time is ripe.

[Canoerebel]

6/9/45 to 6/22/45

China and Japan: Tough fighting here but the Allied end-of-game plan is coming together as I had envisioned. Tough fighting ahead for many months to come but the Allies have put forces and supplies where they need to be with very little interference from Erik. The only fly in the ointment is the air war, where it's a real slog.

[Canoerebel]

Placeholder for update later (maybe).

[BillBrown]

Just a quick note. I do not know what types of ships you are using for bombardments, but I have found that CAs and CLs tend to have better results. I think it is because they have more ammo to shoot.