Dumb Question(s)

The sequel of the legendary wargame with a complete graphics and interface overhaul, major new gameplay and design features such as full naval combat modelling, improved supply handling, numerous increases to scenario parameters to better support large scenarios, and integrated PBEM++.
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Zovs
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Dumb Question(s)

Post by Zovs »

So, still installing TOAW IV, in my "haste" I found this URL:

http://alternatewars.com/Games/TOAW/TOAW.htm

And downloaded a ton of old TOAW III scenarios (in particular the McBride ones, I did some play testing for him way back in the day).

Will TOAW III scenarios work in TOAW IV?

Do I need to bother?

Sorry for the hasty questions prior to completing the install...but thanks in advance.
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by btd64 »

Open the old scenario in the TOAW4 editor and save with a new name. And it should work fine....GP
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by Zovs »

ORIGINAL: btd64

Open the old scenario in the TOAW4 editor and save with a new name. And it should work fine....GP

Thanks btd64
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by btd64 »

Your welcome....GP
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by Zovs »

So here is the first really dumb question.

Forgive me, I am old school old wargamer.

What the heck is Steam (I mean I know what steam is, and I know its bad if your in a submarine and something goes boom and the steam starts...)?

Told you it was going to be dumb...
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by larryfulkerson »

What the heck is Steam?

I have a theory that it's some kind of place where you can logon and play TOAW IV from anywhere in the world via computer. But that's just speculation on my part. I have no good idea what in the world it is or how to use it. I'd like to know the answer to your question too.




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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by Shadrach »

Man, I kind of wish I didn't know what Steam is... so much money spent there, and still many games in my "list of shame" i.e. games I bought on impulse but never played [:D]

These days lots of games, about 20-30 released each day, most of them total crap. Lots of Japanese anime-games targeted at teenage boys (schoolgirls, big boobs...)

And stay away from the forums, they are truly the cesspit of humanity.

Getting games automagically updated with patches is the one nice thing though...
If you're still curious:
https://store.steampowered.com/
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Hi Don - Welcome back!

When playing the older scenarios, just keep in mind that they weren't designed with TOAW IV and some can play differently [especially with the new naval model]. It took a lot of time to try and get the scenarios for the release working proper, so anything not in the release could be a little wonky.

Steam - please don't use it, it is third party garbage that wastes our money and the developers time under the veil of 'easy updates and cheap prices'. [:-]
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by Raindem »

Will TOAW III scenarios work in TOAW IV?

As a scenario designer desperately trying to get his old scenarios to play correctly in T4, there is more than meets the eye to this question. The scenario may load up and appear to play OK, but there are differences that the observant will notice.

Besides the graphical issues of custom graphic legacy scenarios, several playability issues have been identified. Air combat is different. AA combat is different. Naval combat is different. Supply is different. Depending on the scenario, these things could have a huge impact on how it plays. Scenarios that played fine in T3 may produce totally different results in T4. Don't get me wrong... there are many wonderful changes & improvements in T4. But, IMO, not enough consideration was given to how these upgrades would affect the great body of work that was already out there.

As for Steam, they were that one-hit-wonder band from the 60s, right?
Grab them by the balls. Their hearts and minds will follow.
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by larryfulkerson »

But, IMO, not enough consideration was given to how these upgrades would affect the great body of work that was already out there.

I seem to remember a really big thread as we discussed this at great length about 2 years ago on the development board. There were at least two big projects to take a look at the old scenarios and adjust them to use the new features. I remember us arguing over the changes to gameplay the new game engine was going to cause, quite besides the implementation of the new naval rules. The BTS system by itself demands a new style of gameplay. And the new supply rules act quite differently from the old ones, as you've already pointed out. I predict that the players are going to discover that very few scenarios are going to play the same as the old way. I for one think that's a good thing. They will probably play more realistically now. And as the players venture into the editor's world they will produce mods of existing scenarios left and right now that the editor is a lot easier. I don't think this is quite a crisis yet. There may be a few scenarios that will prove difficult to "fix" and I'm looking at you Curt dude. You can produce some really complex bodies of work. I usually check your scenarios when I'm looking for tips about how to do events right. You're worth your weight in gold.
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by Curtis Lemay »

ORIGINAL: Raindem

Air combat is different. AA combat is different. Supply is different.

I don't know of any change made in Air Combat or AA Combat.

Supply is only different if the designer opts to use an Overextended Level or to use the improved road divisor. The scenario has to be willfully modified for either.
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by Zovs »

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

Man, I kind of wish I didn't know what Steam is... so much money spent there, and still many games in my "list of shame" i.e. games I bought on impulse but never played [:D]

These days lots of games, about 20-30 released each day, most of them total crap. Lots of Japanese anime-games targeted at teenage boys (schoolgirls, big boobs...)

And stay away from the forums, they are truly the cesspit of humanity.

Getting games automagically updated with patches is the one nice thing though...
If you're still curious:
https://store.steampowered.com/

Thanks for the info, does not sound like my cup of tea.
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by Zovs »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Hi Don - Welcome back!

When playing the older scenarios, just keep in mind that they weren't designed with TOAW IV and some can play differently [especially with the new naval model]. It took a lot of time to try and get the scenarios for the release working proper, so anything not in the release could be a little wonky.

Steam - please don't use it, it is third party garbage that wastes our money and the developers time under the veil of 'easy updates and cheap prices'. [:-]

Thanks Steve!

I did download a bunch of scenarios, and I noticed that there is still a lot in the default of TOAW IV, so I am going to pick and choose carefully/wisely.

I can't recall off hand, but do I just add scenarios in the default directories?

C:\Matrix Games\The Operational Art of War IV\Scenarios

Under each folder? That is the installation folder and the default from the game. Trying to get caught up reading the manual, and reading stuff on here as well. Or how do you all do it/add scenarios?

Again, thanks on the Steam warning.

I used to have 4-6 scenarios I created back I think (but can't recall) from TOAW COW, maybe? I'll have to dig around. Someone mentioned I just open it up in the editor and save it, but where and where?

Thanks again and sorry for any and all dumb questions.
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by Zovs »

ORIGINAL: Raindem
Will TOAW III scenarios work in TOAW IV?

As a scenario designer desperately trying to get his old scenarios to play correctly in T4, there is more than meets the eye to this question. The scenario may load up and appear to play OK, but there are differences that the observant will notice.

Besides the graphical issues of custom graphic legacy scenarios, several playability issues have been identified. Air combat is different. AA combat is different. Naval combat is different. Supply is different. Depending on the scenario, these things could have a huge impact on how it plays. Scenarios that played fine in T3 may produce totally different results in T4. Don't get me wrong... there are many wonderful changes & improvements in T4. But, IMO, not enough consideration was given to how these upgrades would affect the great body of work that was already out there.

As for Steam, they were that one-hit-wonder band from the 60s, right?
Air combat is different.

Thanks slowly reading things up to here...and makes sense about old scenarios.
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I can't recall off hand, but do I just add scenarios in the default directories?
Well, things are different these days, there is now the Windows Movement to Documents. Most other games also do this, so maybe you are familiar. If not, the details are here, let us know if it is still unclear.
tm.asp?m=4381180

It is my understanding that because of Steam's recent required interference, that some of this may not be true. Others have reported problems, I have not experienced it personally. So, if you have any trouble, just let us know and somebody can get it straight for you. [Again, thanks Steam [:@] and please, everybody stop using this middle man rip-off].
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by sPzAbt653 »

If it helps make anything clearer, here is a shot from my W7 computer. I have a few folders that I added, like my scenarios in the highlighted one, things I grab from elsewhere in Imports, etc.

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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by Zovs »

Thanks Steve, that helps. My Documents\My Games\The Operational Art of War IV does not have any Scenarios directory, so I am assuming I'll need to create that. Based on that link you sent it appears so. I am assuming I can name the new sub-folders within Scenarios as per yours for example?

WWII - Asia
WWII - East Front

etc...
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by Zovs »

So for example doing something like this (and then adding scenarios to them when I find them):

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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by Zovs »

That seems to work. What was a little odd is that I created a few new folders and they are not named the same as the basic game (WWII - North Africa) and it showed up and worked (it was a Afrikia 41 scenario I downloaded). I added one called Modern - Asia and only one scenario, but did not see it off hand cause I thought I'd only see one file, but instead saw the whole lot of them, which is okay.

So I think I got it.

Thanks.
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RE: Dumb Question(s)

Post by Lobster »

ORIGINAL: Zovs

So here is the first really dumb question.

Forgive me, I am old school old wargamer.

What the heck is Steam (I mean I know what steam is, and I know its bad if your in a submarine and something goes boom and the steam starts...)?

Told you it was going to be dumb...

Steam is free to try and if you don't like it then uninstall it. You can get a Steam key for your TOAW from Matrix for free. I never rely on someone's opinion because they may have an agenda. I typically check things out for myself. Not everyone is the same and not everyone likes the same things. Give it a try. If you like it fine. If you don't fine. But don't take the word of people who dislike something simply because it isn't something they think they wouldn't like themselves. Steve has said he doesn't like Steam because the Steam version of TOAW took away from dev time for the game. Maybe so but it exposes TOAW to thousands of people who wouldn't know it even exists. He bashes Steam at every opportunity whether or not it's even called for. As far as I know he has never even used it so has no experience for an informed opinion. I used to be like him. I would constantly bash Steam at every turn. I swore I would never use it. Until I tried it. I use it. I like it.
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