Proximity Spotting

Armored Brigade is a real-time tactical wargame, focusing on realism and playability
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Veitikka
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Proximity Spotting

Post by Veitikka »

I'm sure that many who've played the game have run into situations in closed terrain, for example in forest, where there are enemy units firing right next to you, but you cannot spot them. The enemy keeps firing, your men are killed one by one, but still nothing is seen. This has been an issue especially with enemies that have a small profile, for example dug-in scout teams or vehicles with a small turret. To improve this, we are going to add a new spotting rule:

If the enemy unit is firing and is within 60 meters, and your unit is an infantry unit or an un-buttoned vehicle, has a LOS to the map cell where the enemy is, and is not retreating, then the base spotting chance is raised to the maximum.

I've been testing this and so far the results have been very promising.
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altipueri
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RE: Proximity Spotting

Post by altipueri »

Is spotting or rather cover cumulative in some way?

If I am in woods is being on the edge cell the same as being in the middle of a forest?
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Veitikka
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RE: Proximity Spotting

Post by Veitikka »

ORIGINAL: altipueri

Is spotting or rather cover cumulative in some way?

Spotting capability is affected by many factors, such as thermal imaging systems, recon ability, movement type, training level, suppression, fatigue, being dug-in or buttoned-up, retreating, the vehicle visibility attribute, and damage.

How well a unit can remain undetected depends on the movement type, the weapon muzzle signature when firing, training, suppression, fatigue, terrain concealment, recon ability, and size. If a non-vehicle unit is dug-in, hiding, or in a building it can remain almost completely hidden from the enemy.

If I am in woods is being on the edge cell the same as being in the middle of a forest?

Are we talking about spotting or cover here? When it comes to protection against fire (cover) it doesn't matter how deep in the woods you are.
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altipueri
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RE: Proximity Spotting

Post by altipueri »

Thanks for the reply Veitikka. I like the game so these are enquiries rather than complaints.


Yes, I meant spottability - how far into the woods to hide. And can you see out better than you can see in? I do this when I go on country walks - and perhaps because I don't have good eyesight - I can't see anything more than a few feet into the woods; but if I am a few feet into the woods I can still see out across fields.

I should play with the green/red spotting tool a bit more.
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altipueri
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RE: Proximity Spotting

Post by altipueri »

Blimey I'm a newb to all this post WW2 stuff.

I've just looked up on the web and there thermal stuff that can "see" 2000m in dark or daylight.

This from a site:

"Thermal night vision is based around the idea that different things emit different amounts of radiation. So its true that when things are the same temperature they will appear as the same tone. I've interviewed soldiers who've returned from using FLIR in Afghanistan, and sure enough there are times of day when the ground is the same temperature as body heat. In those conditions, FLIR can be tricky, but that is only for fifteen minutes a day in a hostile environment. You can still use FLIR units in warm locales by changing your pallets to change how the camera displays existing temperature difference. Choosing white-hot or black-hot can help differentiate warm and cool objects, or the Instalert setting which will highlight the hottest objects in the scene. There are three levels of Instalert, where you might choose the most sensitive for a cool environment and the least sensitive for a warm one."

Any of you gamers actually used this stuff on military service?
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varangy
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RE: Proximity Spotting

Post by varangy »

Excellent.
Lowlaner2012
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RE: Proximity Spotting

Post by Lowlaner2012 »

+1 thanks for continuing to improve the game 😀
zacklaws
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RE: Proximity Spotting

Post by zacklaws »

ORIGINAL: altipueri

Blimey I'm a newb to all this post WW2 stuff.

I've just looked up on the web and there thermal stuff that can "see" 2000m in dark or daylight.

This from a site:

"Thermal night vision is based around the idea that different things emit different amounts of radiation. So its true that when things are the same temperature they will appear as the same tone. I've interviewed soldiers who've returned from using FLIR in Afghanistan, and sure enough there are times of day when the ground is the same temperature as body heat. In those conditions, FLIR can be tricky, but that is only for fifteen minutes a day in a hostile environment. You can still use FLIR units in warm locales by changing your pallets to change how the camera displays existing temperature difference. Choosing white-hot or black-hot can help differentiate warm and cool objects, or the Instalert setting which will highlight the hottest objects in the scene. There are three levels of Instalert, where you might choose the most sensitive for a cool environment and the least sensitive for a warm one."

Any of you gamers actually used this stuff on military service?


I used to be a fire controller and used thermal imaging, cannot recall now how far the range was but it exceeded 2000 meters by a good margin, maybe more than double. It was incredible the amount of things you could see that you could not see with the naked eye. ie, you could look at a wood and see a building in the thick of it all, but with the naked eye, you could not see it and only through consulting a map could you confirm a building was there. It was same with people and vehicles, you could see them, but not with the naked eye. Watching HE rounds and WP impacting was incredible in red (hot) and black or vice versa, you could see all the heat waves fanning out in halucinatory patterns. The sensitivity was that good, you could look at a person about 30 yards away, and penetrate their clothing by the adjustment controls and spot items in their pockets, ie pens, coins, knives, ammunition, note books ie. Also, we would sometimes "borrow" them, take them home and look at your house to see where you had heat loss to identify poor insulation and gaps in it. It is an incredible bit of kit and in daylight as well as night time.
JoonasTo
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RE: Proximity Spotting

Post by JoonasTo »

For gameplay, I think this is a definite improvement.
Realism wise too, I think you should be at least able to spot the signature when someone is firing near you(assuming they are shooting at you so you have sight of them.) You might not be able to see a man in a densely packed forest but you would be able to see the movement of the plants/dust/snow caused by the firing and shoot back at that.
ORIGINAL: zacklaws
ORIGINAL: altipueri
Blimey I'm a newb to all this post WW2 stuff.

I've just looked up on the web and there thermal stuff that can "see" 2000m in dark or daylight.

This from a site:

"Thermal night vision is based around the idea that different things emit different amounts of radiation. So its true that when things are the same temperature they will appear as the same tone. I've interviewed soldiers who've returned from using FLIR in Afghanistan, and sure enough there are times of day when the ground is the same temperature as body heat. In those conditions, FLIR can be tricky, but that is only for fifteen minutes a day in a hostile environment. You can still use FLIR units in warm locales by changing your pallets to change how the camera displays existing temperature difference. Choosing white-hot or black-hot can help differentiate warm and cool objects, or the Instalert setting which will highlight the hottest objects in the scene. There are three levels of Instalert, where you might choose the most sensitive for a cool environment and the least sensitive for a warm one."

Any of you gamers actually used this stuff on military service?
I used to be a fire controller and used thermal imaging, cannot recall now how far the range was but it exceeded 2000 meters by a good margin, maybe more than double. It was incredible the amount of things you could see that you could not see with the naked eye. ie, you could look at a wood and see a building in the thick of it all, but with the naked eye, you could not see it and only through consulting a map could you confirm a building was there. It was same with people and vehicles, you could see them, but not with the naked eye. Watching HE rounds and WP impacting was incredible in red (hot) and black or vice versa, you could see all the heat waves fanning out in halucinatory patterns. The sensitivity was that good, you could look at a person about 30 yards away, and penetrate their clothing by the adjustment controls and spot items in their pockets, ie pens, coins, knives, ammunition, note books ie. Also, we would sometimes "borrow" them, take them home and look at your house to see where you had heat loss to identify poor insulation and gaps in it. It is an incredible bit of kit and in daylight as well as night time.
And it doesn't even have to be high-end FLIR or anything to have that effect. Even a basic image intensifier will show thermal differences due to how light is reflected.

Like looking at two tents in the woods that are exactly identical to the naked eye but when you look at them with an image intensifier the other one is lit like a lamppost because there are people sleeping in it. The temperature difference of the tent and the air outside causes a mirage on the boundary layer, which shows up on on the intensifier.

PS. Technically not post WW2 as they had systems for IR vision in WW2 already, just not the most portable ones.
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Veitikka
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RE: Proximity Spotting

Post by Veitikka »

ORIGINAL: altipueri

Yes, I meant spottability - how far into the woods to hide. And can you see out better than you can see in? I do this when I go on country walks - and perhaps because I don't have good eyesight - I can't see anything more than a few feet into the woods; but if I am a few feet into the woods I can still see out across fields.

I should play with the green/red spotting tool a bit more.

You can use the LOS tool to see how it behaves in different kinds of forest. The LOS weakens gradually as it meets obstacles such as tree cells. To see this better, you can change the LOS tool mode in the options (hotkey shift+L). In the game the LOS is the same both ways, from the point A to B and from B to A. When there's the yellow outline in the unit NATO icon then the unit is hiding and cannot be detected as long as it doesn't fire. Any terrain with some concealment can be used for this.
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altipueri
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RE: Proximity Spotting

Post by altipueri »

"When there's the yellow outline in the unit NATO icon then the unit is hiding and cannot be detected as long as it doesn't fire. Any terrain with some concealment can be used for this."

Very useful.

Also useful from something you posted on another thread is that the game plays better if you give orders to formations rather than specific units. Act like a Brigade commander, not a tank commander.
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