11th Army?

[pbcrnk]

So in the middle of winter 42 11th Army goes away...does another come about or do I just attach those units to other corps?

[fritzfarlig]

in the logfile you can see all what comes and go in all turns

[pbcrnk]

poof gone....nothing due thru the summer

[Neogodhobo]

11th Army is not gone. Well, it is, technically, but all its manpower went into creating Army Group Don. This is due to Hitler reorganizing the Southern Front in the winter of 42. Army group Don should stay active until early 1943, when it will merge back as Army Group South. Von Manstein was leading AGD and their purpose was to create a line between Army Group A, and B.

[pbcrnk]

All well and good but apparently I now have to attach all those corps to other armies now. Waste of admin points...

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: pbcrnk

All well and good but apparently I now have to attach all those corps to other armies now. Waste of admin points...

That's how it was, Hitler interferring.

[Aufklaerungs]

This is an example of one of the more ridiculous detractors from the game.
The player is cursed with the outcomes of historical mistakes even when he steers clear of repeating those mistakes. What happens to sixth army units when a player when either avoids Stalingrad or defeats the Soviet armies of the Stalingrad front? What happens to the historically destroyed units when the Soviet player opts not to defend Stalingrad?

[Great_Ajax]

Units aren’t automatically removed from the game based on their historical destruction dates.

Trey

ORIGINAL: Aufklaerungs

This is an example of one of the more ridiculous detractors from the game.
The player is cursed with the outcomes of historical mistakes even when he steers clear of repeating those mistakes. What happens to sixth army units when a player when either avoids Stalingrad or defeats the Soviet armies of the Stalingrad front? What happens to the historically destroyed units when the Soviet player opts not to defend Stalingrad?

[Denniss]

In previous WitE versions the Stalingrad units were either all withdrawn or just those that were rebuilt and became active on another front like france (can't remember exactly).
In 1.08, with a disband option now available, I changed that to have units disband that were rebuilt but sent to France/Italy while those rebuilt and sent back to East will stay (unless they came back as other units then they will disband too).

[Great_Ajax]

The philosophy with all units to include the destroyed Stalingrad and Bagration units was the units were only withdrawn from the game if they were rebuilt and transferred to another theater. Historically destroyed units that didn't transfer stay on the Eastern Front. There are also numerous units that historically disbanded in the East that remain in the game. Not sure how things look now since I handed these scenarios off but units that were disbanded (not necessarily destroyed) were left untouched. These include units like the 27th Panzer Division (disbanded April 43) and the numerous Luftwaffe Recon Squadrons that were disbanded in the winter of 41/42. The intent was never to arbitrarily remove these units based on historical loss dates.

Trey

ORIGINAL: Denniss

In previous WitE versions the Stalingrad units were either all withdrawn or just those that were rebuilt and became active on another front like france (can't remember exactly).
In 1.08, with a disband option now available, I changed that to have units disband that were rebuilt but sent to France/Italy while those rebuilt and sent back to East will stay (unless they came back as other units then they will disband too).

[Denniss]

The Stalingrad units were mostly changed from withdraw to disband - you couldn't do this because you hadn't this feature available (and it's still missing in WitW).

[MechFO]

ORIGINAL: Denniss

The Stalingrad units were mostly changed from withdraw to disband - you couldn't do this because you hadn't this feature available (and it's still missing in WitW).

So the original Enterprise gets scrapped instead of scuttled once the the Essex class Enterprise is launched.

Still makes no sense.

I should have kept my list of corrections.

[Aufklaerungs]

My compliments to Denniss et al for rectifying the automatic removal of Army Group B units from the Axis OB in 1943. Two remaining examples (among some others) of units withdrawn or disbanded automatically in Spring 43 are XIV PzK, 29th Motorized Division - (historically both reformed and re-deployed to Sicily in Jul 43 in response to Operation Husky)

11th Army is a perfect illustration of unwarranted removal. In Nov 42, 11th Army was in the process of redeploying to Army Group North. The Stalingrad contingency was the single reason for aborting this redeployment. Army Group Don was created to deal with this contingency absorbing 11th Army Divisions into 1st PzA, 4th PzA and 17th A. If 6th Army is not surrounded in Nov 43, why is 11th Army removed from the OB?

Summer 1944 (historic destruction date of AGC) used to be another programmed period to remove unit groupings automatically without any situational justification. Hopefully, these units have been revised to remain in play.

[Neogodhobo]

I agree that a bit more freedom on how to operate the disband/withdrawal aspect would be nice. Maybe even have some events that require making choices. ( say the western front is in need of troops, YOU get to chose who goes, and who stay)

[Great_Ajax]

These issues are mainly fixed with the new theater box system in WitE 2. You can move these units around however you wish if you choose full control over the theater boxes. There is an option to use the WitE version of arrivals and withdrawals if you do not want to manage forces all over Europe. Entirely the player's choice.

Trey

ORIGINAL: Neogodhobo

I agree that a bit more freedom on how to operate the disband/withdrawal aspect would be nice. Maybe even have some events that require making choices. ( say the western front is in need of troops, YOU get to chose who goes, and who stay)

[Neogodhobo]

[&o]

[uw06670]

[/quote]

There is an option to use the WitE version of arrivals and withdrawals if you do not want to manage forces all over Europe

Very cool

[pbcrnk]

I don't mind historical events sparking...I'm about to lose the Italians now and I get that. They were invaded and so that's acceptable. But the "that's how it was...hitler" is bs. I am Hitler...I am the leader of this invasion. No reason for 11th Army HQ to go away. Apparently it'll be fixed in pt 2 but unacceptable in this game.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: pbcrnk

I don't mind historical events sparking...I'm about to lose the Italians now and I get that. They were invaded and so that's acceptable. But the "that's how it was...hitler" is bs. I am Hitler...I am the leader of this invasion. No reason for 11th Army HQ to go away. Apparently it'll be fixed in pt 2 but unacceptable in this game.

It's a historical wargame so historical things happen and most definitely not unacceptable as you say. Yes, it probably would be good to explore situations were nothing like this happens but then it becomes fantasy.

[SparkleyTits]

I have noticed there are a few different pulling forces for us players

In this example the two forces that are sometimes diametrically opposed are, alot of players want the game to be as historical as possible even if it hurts gameplay or intuitive mechanics
Others would prefer more freedom of choice over their own decision making and more intuitive gameplay at the loss of historical accuracy

I personally think the balance between the two is as good as could be expected from such a great game to give both types of people what they hope for but pleasing everybody to the nth degree is unfortunately an impossible job
I just try to accept the mechanics I am given as they are and work around them where possible otherwise I would pull my own hair out and lessen my enjoyment because of it [:D]