New patch in the works

Eagle Day to Bombing of the Reich is a improved and enhanced edition of Talonsoft's older Battle of Britain and Bombing the Reich. This updated version represents the best simulation of the air war over Britain and the strategic bombing campaign over Europe that has ever been made.

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simovitch
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by simovitch »

ORIGINAL: joey

I love the idea of a patch for such a great game. I thank all involved in this process.
I do have one question. Will there be any improvement the Allied AI in BTR? I like to play the Germans in BTR. I would love a beefed up AI to play against.
Night operations by Bomber Command will be stepped up a bit, and you will see more variation in Allied AI strategy thanks to Alberto fixing a bug with the initial random number seeding. But other than that the Allied AI in BTR is fairly robust and not much was done this go around.

The Luftwaffe in BoB needs serious help and is the main focus of AI overhauling.
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joey
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by joey »

Thanks for the update, and I appreciate all your work. I am looking forward to this update!
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by simovitch »

ORIGINAL: Denniss

you just need to ensure only the JG 300 units would be eligible for using 109/190 as night fighters or one may misuse this upgrade and change all night fighters to day fighters.
OK I've added some code to allow the S/E Wilde Sau fighter types to convert to day fighters sometime in march 1944. The Wilde Sau groups can not change to other nightfighter types, nor can other nightfighter goups change to S/E Wilde Sau fighters.
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by Tejszd »

Thank you for all the effort on patching this older title!
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joey
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by joey »

I am really looking forward to this patch. I thank you all for your efforts.
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by BigDuke66 »

Are there any plans to adjust & improve the database?
Not sure if something or anything at all was used from this thread:
tm.asp?m=3431670
but it seems a pity if this wouldn't be utilized.
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simovitch
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by simovitch »

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Are there any plans to adjust & improve the database?
Not sure if something or anything at all was used from this thread:
tm.asp?m=3431670
but it seems a pity if this wouldn't be utilized.
Reading through that thread is like reading through the minutes of a City Council administrative committee agenda item where nothing is really decided on. A/C data is a slippery slope and I would only trust a recommendation from someone who is familiar with the AI, combat and upgrade code, and/or how the code interprets the A/C data (Denniss, TaggedYa, Creeper, and maybe Turner and warshipbuilder).

Slightly OT but we have found several errors where the code was trying to upgrade, change, or otherwise edit aircraft ID numbers that had long since been changed at the request of well-intended, albeit misinformed data folks who did not understand the code or by coders who did not understand the data structure. Alberto and I have also eliminated thousands of unnecessary loop cycles (which should manifest as better performance during initialization and AI processing) caused by the same data/coding disconnect. Not to take away from the absolutely brilliant efforts by the coders before us, mind you, but without the BtR and BoB data spreadsheet in front of me and an understanding of how it is structured it would be very difficult to do much in the way of coding the AI or other functions.

Anyway, there you have it.[:)]
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by CaptCarnage »

Wonderful, I am excited!

Will there be a savegame data export possibility for Excel as there once was, for more convenient message reading?
"One must always distrust the report of troop commanders: 'We have no fuel' [...] You see, if they become tired they suddenly lack fuel" - Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by boogabooga »

I'm glad to hear that a new patch is in the works. Here are a few of my suggestions:

-Allow a victorious player to decline the victory and play on, if they wish.
-More target filtering on the planning map. Especially a filter by industry type is really needed, IMHO.
-Variable operational strength. Let the player adjust how many sorties per mission a unit will conduct versus what gets held back. For example, a group sends out 40 bombers instead of 36 or 30 fighters instead of the usual 48.
-Try to incorporate intermediate units (Fliergerkorps, Divison, RAF BTR Group). Perhaps assign an entire Division to a target in one button press the same way way that you now would assign individual groups or squadrons.
-Some sort of category system for the defending side to make sure exhausted units are not scrambled.
-Get the players permission before upgrade units to new type.
-The separate "fighter bomber" category needs to be re-examined in BTR because it limits historical upgrade options. Virtually ALL of the allied fighter units were fighter bombers. The only exception that I can think of is the mosquito whose pilots may have had a bomber crew background. But A-36 units should be able to upgrade to P-47s, Typhoon units to Tempests, etc. as they did historically. And related to that:
-Allow the ability to switch between the ground attack loadouts and extra fuel tanks (or fighter vs fighter-bomber mode) for all fighter types, as currently only some types (P-38 P-47, etc.) allow.

Also, are there any plans to add any new new shorter duration (1 week to 1 month) campaigns?
The boogabooga doctrine for CMO: Any intentional human intervention needs to be able to completely and reliably over-ride anything that the AI is doing at any time.
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by warshipbuilder »

"Allow a victorious player to decline the victory and play on, if they wish."

Are you related to Bomber Harris?

"Variable operational strength. Let the player adjust how many sorties per mission a unit will conduct versus what gets held back. For example, a group sends out 40 bombers instead of 36 or 30 fighters instead of the usual 48."

So you want even more micro-management?

"Typhoon units to Tempests"

They already do.

"Allow the ability to switch between the ground attack loadouts and extra fuel tanks"

Try War in the West, Pointblank Directive or Weakest Link scenarios. Not BTR, but you have lots of different aircraft and in some cases 3 loadout options. BTR data base isn't able to handle it. If I do one I would have to them all and crash goes the game. I have experimented and was able to do all the Spitfires with no ill effects. But for play balance and fairness you would have to do most/all of the aircraft and it just doesn't work.

"Also, are there any plans to add any new new shorter duration (1 week to 1 month) campaigns?"

No.

Some of your other ideas have merit and could be do-able. Simovitch will be able to speak to those better than I can.
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simovitch
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by simovitch »

ORIGINAL: CaptCarnage
Will there be a savegame data export possibility for Excel as there once was, for more convenient message reading?
So we fixed the in-game replay-recorder plane types, message scrolling, and crash bugs so it is far superior to the message reader built into the editor.

I don't recall the public ever having the ability to read savegames though.
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by CaptCarnage »

Well slap me silly but this thread:

fb.asp?m=3157232

kind of points to a Message Reader that allows superrapid scrolling? Based on savegames?

The topic starts with "Here is a little tool that is able to load a savegame file,
collect the ingame messages of your gameturn and displays them
in a listview."
So apparently we could read stuff from the savegame? And this was a truly beautiful message reader, where you could scroll through a massive list and it would point you where it all was on a beautiful map. Superfast and convenient. I could easily scroll through it to find flak locations.

As for message scrolling currently, how does that happen? What do I do? Because the only tools I have available in the replay is to move backwards and forwards a frame? There is no message scrolling? If I want to know now where my bomber formations got hit by flak, I need to click through all the frames. Takes ages.
"One must always distrust the report of troop commanders: 'We have no fuel' [...] You see, if they become tired they suddenly lack fuel" - Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by simovitch »

Ah yes, Creeper's external message reader. He must have had the keys to the kingdom because the password that protects the save files is a guarded secret. Anyway, we had to adjust a few array sizes in the data structure to make the in-game recorder working and fix some other potential bugs so that message reader no longer loads the data correctly.

That said, I adjusted the public editor to work with the new data structure so I know the new offsets (many sanity cells were lost on this venture), but I don't have time right now to write a new message reader. If someone wants to step forward and volunteer, I will happily send them the extracted binary data to test with. Once they have it up and running and looking good, I'll send them the password (with Matrix' permission).
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by CaptCarnage »

Fair enough!
would if I could but not a programmer at all...

But how does message scrolling work now? How do I determine where flak is without sitting through the whole mission and pinpointing each frame?
"One must always distrust the report of troop commanders: 'We have no fuel' [...] You see, if they become tired they suddenly lack fuel" - Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by simovitch »

ORIGINAL: CaptCarnage

Fair enough!
would if I could but not a programmer at all...

But how does message scrolling work now? How do I determine where flak is without sitting through the whole mission and pinpointing each frame?
You can't, really. Let me think about that one.
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by gargamel9 »

Great to see the game still has patches. I would like a scenario with only Italy, from 1943 to the end. So far having day and night and the whole europe is a bit to much given the depth of the game.
If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting.
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simovitch
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by simovitch »

Another update on the patch. Except for a few minor touch-ups it's basically finished and ready for final testing and sign off:

Variable moonlight now corresponds to actual phases of the moon relative to sunrise/sunset.

Fixed a bug in BoB 40 & 41 campaign where moon rise and set hours went past 24:00 clock during mid-late game.

Overcast display simplified to show OVC (overcast) base and height elevation.

Fixed ops points in BoB and non-campaign scenarios to match rulebook.

Ensured detached groups combine with parent when sharing the same base.

'Top pilots' and 'Honor Roll' views now show days until return to service for WIA veterans.

Luftwaffe units in Balkans "Sud Ost" groups now go on alert normally when Allied bombers approach.

88mm FlaK 41 now distributed by AI from AA pools to home defense in Btr. Similar fixes to some RAF AA guns in BoB.

Map now recenters only when an event falls outside of the current view. The frenetic screen jumping is greatly reduced, especially noticable for BoB and the smaller scenarios.

'Intercept', 'Set Patrol', and 'Set Doctrine' displays now show Nightfighter Groups in blue for easy reference. 'Set Doctrine' display now lists only aircraft currently in use by HQ, with ability to quick reference aircraft database for selected aircraft type.

Fixed a bug where the random number generator was always producing the same sequence of numbers at start and not re-seeding. This impacts anything that is randomly set at the start of the scenario, and possibly some other effects.

Fixed a bug where "lowest ready" aircraft was showing incorrectly.

Clarified "autoplan missions" button and rename "set bomber targets" to "autoplan missions"

Verified that changing clock speed from anything but 1 impacts the combat results (as previously suspected). Fixing this bug was very complex so for now clock speed hardwired to 1. You can still adjust the clock/timer settings under 'Options'.

Fixed a major bug/exploit where the cloud cover in BoB games would reset to the north edge of the map when zoomed out.

Reworked the Fuel-Oil economy routines. Shortages are now much more likely to occur with a dedicated fuel/oil campaign. Both players will be notified when the shortage is in effect, but only the defender will see just how bad it is. Beside fuel to fly airplanes, shortages impact the delivery of replacements to ground units leading to greater ability to break the defensive lines.

Fixed several cases where aircraft were not converting to elint or other types. Fixed several German fighter default doctrines.

BTR: "Wilde Sau" nightfighters Bf 109G-6/U4N and Fw 190A-5/U2 cease production and convert into day fighters sometime before the end of March 1944. Bf 109G-6/U4N upgrades to Bf 109G-14 in July 1944 and Fw 190A-5/U2 upgrades to Fw 190A-8 in March 1944. Nightfighters cannot change to/from Wilde Sau types.

Added morale loss for delayed or scrubbed Allied missions.

Reduced accuracy for high altitude raids >25000' more or less, increase risk of mechanical or crew damage at high altitude (icing)

Scenario balance:
Overlord scenarios: Axis receive points for servicable aircraft west of x=540 instead of x=500 (this also matches the western limits of "terror bombing" targets.

Avalanche scenario: Allies receive 75 points per airfield captured in Italy instead of 100. Axis receive points for serviceable aircraft south of y=875 instead of y=950.

Both 1943 and 1944 campaigns are 65 turns shorter, ending in April 1945, corresponding to the historical date that major offensive air operations ended and giving the Luftwaffe a better chance to win before the entire economy is overrun. Allies must achieve 90 VP instead of 85. Added some more historical at-start damage to German cities. Set baseline terror and industry points the same for 43 and 44 scenarios, and sudden death calculation assumes 44 scenario is already 6 months along (so Allies will already need a minimum score of 14 at the March 1944 checkpoint...)

Fixed the 1944 Jet Age scenario. Me 262's now come on with a vengeance at start, with the AI doing a good job of integration into the Luftwaffe. 1944 Jet campaign length and VP unchanged but sudden death applies as with 1944 campaign.

Added several tweaks and smarts to make the German AI bomber offensive in BoB much more potent.

BoB: Kg 40 and Kgr 126 units in Brest were maritime patrol and minelaying units. They have been reduced in size from Gruppe to Schwarm (assuming some were used for bombing England) and the balance of He 111's returned to the replacement pool.

Fixed bugs where German targets and bases in Crete and Balkans would remain until the end of the war. Fixed Rimini airfield behind enemy lines.

Axis player can select ground troops during movement phase and see the supply value and path without it flickering by too fast to read.

Replay messages can be read without flickering by regardless of scroll speed.

Many more OOB changes, See seperate listing.
1. Most Allied reinforcements have increased delays.
2. In the 44 campaign, all 2ndTAF Typhoons are now rocket equipped.
3. The LSNF now has its historical OOB.
4. Wherever possible, all units now have their historical leaders.
5. fixed a few data errors intorduced in the last patch, mainly dealing with replacements.

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RE: New patch in the works

Post by warshipbuilder »

These are the changes in the OOB for the upcoming patch. RAF squadron's below 112 & Commonwealth AF's, were done in the previous patch. No changes to LW or USAAF.

BTR 1943

112 Sqn - Changed a/c from Spitfire LFVIII to Spitfire LFIXC
118 Sqn - Changed delay from 325 to 330
- Changed a/c from Spitfire LFIXC to Spitfire HFIX
122 Sqn - Changed delay from 163 to 1
- Changed a/c from Mustang III to Spitfire HFIX
126 Sqn - Changed AirHQ from MAC to IXADGB
- Delayed 279
- Changed a/c from Spitfire FIX to Spitfire HFIX
127 Sqn - Changed delay from 246 to 276
128 Sqn - Changed AirHQ from 8 Group to LSNF
- Changed a/c from Mosquito BIV to Mosquito BXVI
- Changed delay from 398 to 409
129 Sqn - Changed delay from 227 to 233
130 Sqn - Changed delay from 228 to 232
139 Sqn - Changed Air HQ from 8 Groupt to LSNF
- Assigned to Hutton Cranswick
142 Sqn - Changed delay from 427 to 435
- Changed Air HQ from 8 Group to LSNF
149 Sqn - Changed a/c from Stirling I to Stirling III
153 Sqn - Changed AirHQ from MAC to 5 Group
- Changed a/c from Beaufighter VIF to Lancaster III
- Delayed 417
162 Sqn - Changed Air HQ from 8 Group to LSNF
163 Sqn - Changed delay from 520 to 530
164 Sqn - Changed a/c from Hurricane IV to Typhoon IB
169 Sqn - Changed delay from 153 to 156
170 Sqn - Changed delay from 415 to 427
171 Sqn - Changed delay from 357 to 388
186 Sqn - Changed delay from 408 to 428
189 Sqn - Changed delay from 418 to 441
195 Sqn - Changed a/c from Typhoon to Lancaster III
- Changed AirHQ from 10 Group to 3 Group
- Delayed 436
196 Sqn - Changed a/c from Stirling I to Stirling III
199 Sqn - Changed a/c from Stirling I to Stirling III
201 Sqn - Changed delay from 210 to 213
213 Sqn - Changed delay from 312 to 327
218 Sqn - Changed a/c from Stirling I to Stirling III
219 Sqn - Changed delay from 162 to 179
225 Sqn - Changed delay from 8 to 5
227 Sqn - Changed delay from 410 to 417
234 Sqn - Changed delay from 364 to 381
237 Sqn - Changed delay from 140 to 112
238 Sqn - Changed delay from 251 to 246
239 Sqn - Changed delay from 122 to 114
- Changed a/c from Mosquito NFXII to Mosquito NFXIII
241 Sqn - Changed delay from 136 to 139
249 Sqn - Changed delay from 373 to 71
- Changed a/c from Mustang III to Spitfire HFIX
253 Sqn - Changed delay from 187 to 61
- Changed a/c from Spitfire FIX to Spitfire LFVC
255 Sqn - Changed delay from 110 to 88
X/256 - Removed
256 Sqn - Air HQ changed from 11 Group to MAC
- Delayed 58
264 Sqn - Changed a/c from Beaufighter VIF to Mosquito NFII
303 Sqn - Changed delay from 255 to 257
305 Sqn - Changed delay from 15 to 76
307 Sqn - Change Air HQ from LSNF to 12 Group
- Assigned to Coleby Grange
- Changed a/c from Mosquito NFXIII to Mosquito NFII
309 Sqn - Changed delay from 409 to 483
310 Sqn - Changed delay from 32 to 33
312 Sqn - Changed delay from 31 to 48
315 Sqn - Changed delay from 221 to 220
317 Sqn - Changed delay from 34 to 35
318 Sqn - Changed delay from 246 to 258
322 Sqn - Changed delay from 202 to 205
329 Sqn - Changed delay from 208 to 197
335 Sqn - Changed delay from 389 to 387
336 Sqn - Changed delay from 391 to 396
345 Sqn - Changed delay from 175 to 259
346 Sqn - Changed delay from 300 to 289
347 Sqn - Changed delay from 327 to 315
349 Sqn - Changed delay from 71 to 68
351 Sqn - Changed delay from 312 to 402
500 Sqn - Changed delay from 348 to 481
514 Sqn - Changed delay from 15 to 78
515 Sqn - Changed delay from 193 to 201
- Changed a/c from Mosquito NFXII to Mosquito FBVI
550 Sqn - Changed delay from 98 to 100
571 Sqn - Changed AirHQ from 8 Group to LNSF
- Changed delay from 245 to 234
576 Sqn - Changed delay from 98 to 107
578 Sqn - Changed delay from 157 to 156
582 Sqn - Changed delay from 245 to 236
600 Sqn - Changed delay from 30 to 45
604 Sqn - Changed delay from 261 to 251
605 Sqn - Changed a/c from Beufighter VIF to Mosquito FBVI
- Changed Air HQ from LSNF to 84 Group
- Assigned to Bradwell Bay
608 Sqn - Changed delay from 367 to 350
- Changed Air HQ from 8 Group to LSNF
613 Sqn - Changed delay from 62 to 124
616 Sqn - Changed delay from 367 to 345
625 Sqn - Changed delay from 44 to 45
626 Sqn - Changed delay from 80 to 82
627 Sqn - Changed delay from 93 to 87
630 Sqn - Changed delay from 88 to 90
635 Sqn - Changed delay from 213 to 216
640 Sqn - Changed delay from 140 to 143
692 Sqn - Changed Air HQ from 8 Groupt to LSNF

BTR 1944

112 Sqn - Changed a/c from Spitfire LFVIII to Spitfire LFIXC
118 Sqn - Changed delay from 121 to 143
- Changed a/c from Spitfire LFIXC to Spitfire HFIX
126 Sqn - Changed AirHQ from MAC to IXADGB
- Delayed 92
- Changed a/c from Spitfire FIX to Spitfire HFIX
127 Sqn - Changed delay from 42 to 89
128 Sqn - Changed AirHQ from 8 Group to LSNF
- Changed a/c from Mosquito BIV to Mosquito BXVI
- Changed delay from 194 to 222
129 Sqn - Changed delay from 27 to 46
130 Sqn - Changed delay from 24 to 45
139 Sqn - Changed Air HQ from 8 Groupt to LSNF
- Assigned to Hutton Cranswick
142 Sqn - Changed delay from 224 to 248
153 Sqn - Changed AirHQ from MAC to 5 Group
- Changed a/c from Beaufighter VIF to Lancaster III
- Delayed 230
158 Sqn - Changed a/c from Halifax II to Halifax III
162 Sqn - Changed delay from 285 to 302
- Changed Air HQ from 8 Group to LSNF
163 Sqn - Changed delay from 316 to 343
164 Sqn - Changed a/c from Hurricane IV to Typhoon IB
170 Sqn - Changed delay from 228 to 240
171 Sqn - Changed delay from 153 to 231
186 Sqn - Changed delay from 204 to 241
189 Sqn - Changed delay from 214 to 255
195 Sqn - Changed a/c from Typhoon to Lancaster III
- Changed AirHQ from 10 Group to 3 Group
- Delayed 249
196 Sqn - Changed a/c from Stirling I to Stirling III
213 Sqn - Changed delay from 112 to 140
227 Sqn - Changed delay from 206 to 230
234 Sqn - Changed delay from 160 to 194
238 Sqn - Changed delay from 47 to 59
239 Sqn - Changed a/c from Mosquito NFII to Mosquito NFXIII
249 Sqn - Removed delay, assigned to Marcainise
Changed a/c from Mustang III to Spitfire HFIX
250 Sqn - Changed a/c from Kittyhawk III to Kittyhawk IV
253 Sqn - Changed a/c from Spitfire LFIXC to Spitfire LFVC
256 Sqn - Air HQ changed from 11 Group to MAC
- Assigned to Capaccio
300 Sqn - Changed a/c from Lancaster I to Wellington III
302 Sqn - Changed a/c from Spitfire LFVB to Spitfire LFIXC
303 Sqn - Changed delay from 51 to 70
308 Sqn - Changed a/c from Spitfire LFVB to Spitfire LFIXC
307 Sqn - Change Air HQ from LSNF to 12 Group
- Assigned to Coleby Grange
309 Sqn - Changed delay from 205 to 296
315 Sqn - Changed delay from 17 to 33
318 Sqn - Changed delay from 42 to 71
322 Sqn - Delayed 18
329 Sqn - Changed delay from 4 to 10
331 Sqn - Changed delay from 19 to 40
332 Sqn - Changed delay from 19 to 40
335 Sqn - Changed delay from 185 to 202
336 Sqn - Changed delay from 187 to 211
340 Sqn - Changed delay from 102 to 84
345 Sqn - Delayed delayed 72
346 Sqn - Changed delay from 96 to 102
347 Sqn - Changed delay from 123 to 128
500 Sqn - Changed delay from 144 to 294
515 Sqn - Delayed 15
571 Sqn - Changed AirHQ from 8 Group to LNSF
- Changed delay from 41 to 47
582 Sqn - Changed delay from 19 to 49
602 Sqn - Changed a/c from Spitfire LFVB to Spitfire LFIXC
604 Sqn - Changed delay from 74 to 64
608 Sqn - Changed a/c from Mosquito BIV to Mosquito BXVI
- Changed Air HQ from 8 Group to LSNF
616 Sqn - Changed delay from 163 to 158
635 Sqn - Changed delay from 9 to 29
692 Sqn - Changed delay from 154 to 137
- Changed Air HQ from 8 Group to LSNF
- Assigned to Hutton Cranswick


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RE: New patch in the works

Post by warshipbuilder »

-Variable operational strength. Let the player adjust how many sorties per mission a unit will conduct versus what gets held back. For example, a group sends out 40 bombers instead of 36 or 30 fighters instead of the usual 48.

I have re-thought our position on this and actually it is a good idea and historically sound. So we will have a look at it for the next next patch. Assuming we haven't thrown up our arms and given up fighting with this seriously old, limiting, cranky game. I am pretty sure we have pushed our main programmer to the edge with the new patch.
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RE: New patch in the works

Post by solops »

This is one of my favorite games and I am ecstatic to see the recent 1.3 patch and this thread. I have not looked at any of this for a long time, so please clarify this for me. The patch being discussed in this thread is a successor to the 1.3 patch, correct?
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