The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

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mind_messing
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: obvert


...I do need more troops on Formosa, but I'll have to take them from Honshu to do that, which is risky too. There are, as you know, just too many places to cover effectively. Daito and the little islands to the North could be easily taken, and those would provide close-in fighter support for strat bombing as well as limiting any further transport to the Home Islands. I'm flooding units to North Honshu and to Kyushu to get a mobile reserve ready close to anything. I'll move something to every pile of rock around, but I can't put a division everywhere just yet.

Tsushima is a massive fort, but I'd not even though of it as a target. I can drop a brigade there and fly in more quickly if he moves that way.

Do not weaken the Home Islands defences. Japan remains well on track to achieving a significant game victory. The Allies have less than 5 months to get to a 2:1 auto victory ratio. Their only hope of getting anywhere near that is by capturing Home Island bases combined with strategic bombing.

Based on developments to date in this game I very much doubt the Allies will even achieve a 1.26:1 ratio by the end of August 1945. That only places them in marginal Allied victory territory which is of course very far short of the historical outcome which in keeping with the game design victory conditions means crowing rights to Japan.

Unless that Allied auto victory is gained by 31 August 1945, the end game auto victory level adjustment mechanism will see the worst outcome for Japan being a draw, with a Japanese marginal victory being the most likely adjusted outcome.

Alfred

I'm trying to keep this in mind, and really do want to focus on VP ratio in all of my choices right now. This is also why I'm playing too conservatively regarding all-out naval strikes and kamis.

With the influx of new China, Manchurian and Home Island restricted units I can probably afford a few units moving from China and Manchuria to the inner islands around Kyushu and down to Daito, and some of the smaller infantry units from naval guard to regiment size installing in those spots. For Formosa I'll bring a few from farther South to add in, and at least cover all of the bases plus have noe stack that might hold for a bit.

The Allies have shown they can move a mass of troops quickly and have them drop in a day, ready to strike. I can't let any base be hit in this way without immediate response, so the forts have all been building beyond level 6 in any clear hex and often to level 8. Non-clear hexes are 6-7 for the most part now, with some Western Honshu and Kyushu bases still catching up.

I am moving some units from Hokkaido back to Honshu as well since he's pulling units from Kushiro and Wakkanai for whatever the next op will be.

Glad your forts are moving in clear terrain. IJA units can work wonders in x3 terrain with level 3 or 4 forts, but they need the bigger forts for x2 and clear terrain.

Food for thought: Okinawa is worth about the same (if not slightly more) base VP's to the Allies as Formosa. It's also much easier to defend and much more relevant to the Home Islands defence. On top of that, I consider Formosa indefensible due to terrain (bar two hexs, it's all clear terrain), while Okinawa is x2 and x3 terrain.

Regarding China, Shanghai and Peiping are the really big ticket VP items. The real VP haul for the Allies comes from destroying large numbers of surrounded IJA units. To that end, I think it's important to know when to bug out of China so that the Soviets don't get to cut off your armies in South-East Asia.

I think the best way to play the VP game in China/Manchuria is to throw expendable units into the big cities to deny VP's, then bug everyone out to Keijo and the two hexes east of it. It surrenders a fair bit of territory, but the cost of losing units facing the Soviets head on will be far greater. This also had the added advantage of giving you the ability to consolidate units and develop a strategic reserve in Korea to deploy where needed. I've don't know the maths for your game, but I reckon that army VP's make up a significant portion of IJ VP's left on the game board at this point. More food for thought.

I think it's the only way of putting a dent in the Soviet juggernaut - they shotgun into Manchuria and find nothing all the way to Korea.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Glad your forts are moving in clear terrain. IJA units can work wonders in x3 terrain with level 3 or 4 forts, but they need the bigger forts for x2 and clear terrain.

Food for thought: Okinawa is worth about the same (if not slightly more) base VP's to the Allies as Formosa. It's also much easier to defend and much more relevant to the Home Islands defence. On top of that, I consider Formosa indefensible due to terrain (bar two hexs, it's all clear terrain), while Okinawa is x2 and x3 terrain.

Regarding China, Shanghai and Peiping are the really big ticket VP items. The real VP haul for the Allies comes from destroying large numbers of surrounded IJA units. To that end, I think it's important to know when to bug out of China so that the Soviets don't get to cut off your armies in South-East Asia.

I think the best way to play the VP game in China/Manchuria is to throw expendable units into the big cities to deny VP's, then bug everyone out to Keijo and the two hexes east of it. It surrenders a fair bit of territory, but the cost of losing units facing the Soviets head on will be far greater. This also had the added advantage of giving you the ability to consolidate units and develop a strategic reserve in Korea to deploy where needed. I've don't know the maths for your game, but I reckon that army VP's make up a significant portion of IJ VP's left on the game board at this point. More food for thought.

I think it's the only way of putting a dent in the Soviet juggernaut - they shotgun into Manchuria and find nothing all the way to Korea.

I'm with you on Okinawa. That is a bigger priority for sure than Formosa.

For China, on thing about this game is that China is completely in the hands of the IJA. I've been holding off the hordes in the mountains, sometimes defending well with a 1:10 AV disadvantage, but the terrain and forts combined with better quality and experience of the units have been decisive. So I might face a different challenge. The majority of strength in China is in the mountains. I may want to stay there, only pulling back to defend Chunking if necessary.

As to the Soviets, if I'm still going strong by that point I will pull all Manchurian units back to good terrain, but we'll see. Defending the Peiping area would be a priority but of course so much of China can't really be defended either.

All of it is speculation though considering I'm a bit confused about what will happen in Dan's next move. Will it be to another main Home Island? Will it be to begin moving around and creating other threatening bases to get fighter coverage of Western bases? Will it be to shut the door on movement of resources from the SRA and troops back from Burma?
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Glad your forts are moving in clear terrain. IJA units can work wonders in x3 terrain with level 3 or 4 forts, but they need the bigger forts for x2 and clear terrain.

Food for thought: Okinawa is worth about the same (if not slightly more) base VP's to the Allies as Formosa. It's also much easier to defend and much more relevant to the Home Islands defence. On top of that, I consider Formosa indefensible due to terrain (bar two hexs, it's all clear terrain), while Okinawa is x2 and x3 terrain.

Regarding China, Shanghai and Peiping are the really big ticket VP items. The real VP haul for the Allies comes from destroying large numbers of surrounded IJA units. To that end, I think it's important to know when to bug out of China so that the Soviets don't get to cut off your armies in South-East Asia.

I think the best way to play the VP game in China/Manchuria is to throw expendable units into the big cities to deny VP's, then bug everyone out to Keijo and the two hexes east of it. It surrenders a fair bit of territory, but the cost of losing units facing the Soviets head on will be far greater. This also had the added advantage of giving you the ability to consolidate units and develop a strategic reserve in Korea to deploy where needed. I've don't know the maths for your game, but I reckon that army VP's make up a significant portion of IJ VP's left on the game board at this point. More food for thought.

I think it's the only way of putting a dent in the Soviet juggernaut - they shotgun into Manchuria and find nothing all the way to Korea.

I'm with you on Okinawa. That is a bigger priority for sure than Formosa.

For China, on thing about this game is that China is completely in the hands of the IJA. I've been holding off the hordes in the mountains, sometimes defending well with a 1:10 AV disadvantage, but the terrain and forts combined with better quality and experience of the units have been decisive. So I might face a different challenge. The majority of strength in China is in the mountains. I may want to stay there, only pulling back to defend Chunking if necessary.

As to the Soviets, if I'm still going strong by that point I will pull all Manchurian units back to good terrain, but we'll see. Defending the Peiping area would be a priority but of course so much of China can't really be defended either.

All of it is speculation though considering I'm a bit confused about what will happen in Dan's next move. Will it be to another main Home Island? Will it be to begin moving around and creating other threatening bases to get fighter coverage of Western bases? Will it be to shut the door on movement of resources from the SRA and troops back from Burma?

I think you need to consider an exit strategy for China prior to 6/45. The dam holds for now, but it will break sooner rather than later. You'll get about a month and a half grace as the Allies catch up with you, maybe more if you can make selective defensive actions to stall them.

Get ahead of the pursuit, on rail lines and into Manchuria/Korea. Elsewise you'll have too much AV stuck in a sideshow. Open the Allied OOB for 1945. There's a LOT of AV, most unrestricted. Don't make my mistake of depending on the IJA '45 reinforcement list to help you - it looks impressive, but it's hollow.

Consolidate, consolidate, consolidate!

Given the strategic situation, first place for his next move goes to the north coast of Honshu. Second place to Korea. In either of those cases, all the AV in western China isn't much good to you.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by witpqs »

I think the dam in the mountains of China will not break, it will have to be circumvented.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Glad your forts are moving in clear terrain. IJA units can work wonders in x3 terrain with level 3 or 4 forts, but they need the bigger forts for x2 and clear terrain.

Food for thought: Okinawa is worth about the same (if not slightly more) base VP's to the Allies as Formosa. It's also much easier to defend and much more relevant to the Home Islands defence. On top of that, I consider Formosa indefensible due to terrain (bar two hexs, it's all clear terrain), while Okinawa is x2 and x3 terrain.

Regarding China, Shanghai and Peiping are the really big ticket VP items. The real VP haul for the Allies comes from destroying large numbers of surrounded IJA units. To that end, I think it's important to know when to bug out of China so that the Soviets don't get to cut off your armies in South-East Asia.

I think the best way to play the VP game in China/Manchuria is to throw expendable units into the big cities to deny VP's, then bug everyone out to Keijo and the two hexes east of it. It surrenders a fair bit of territory, but the cost of losing units facing the Soviets head on will be far greater. This also had the added advantage of giving you the ability to consolidate units and develop a strategic reserve in Korea to deploy where needed. I've don't know the maths for your game, but I reckon that army VP's make up a significant portion of IJ VP's left on the game board at this point. More food for thought.

I think it's the only way of putting a dent in the Soviet juggernaut - they shotgun into Manchuria and find nothing all the way to Korea.

I'm with you on Okinawa. That is a bigger priority for sure than Formosa.

For China, on thing about this game is that China is completely in the hands of the IJA. I've been holding off the hordes in the mountains, sometimes defending well with a 1:10 AV disadvantage, but the terrain and forts combined with better quality and experience of the units have been decisive. So I might face a different challenge. The majority of strength in China is in the mountains. I may want to stay there, only pulling back to defend Chunking if necessary.

As to the Soviets, if I'm still going strong by that point I will pull all Manchurian units back to good terrain, but we'll see. Defending the Peiping area would be a priority but of course so much of China can't really be defended either.

All of it is speculation though considering I'm a bit confused about what will happen in Dan's next move. Will it be to another main Home Island? Will it be to begin moving around and creating other threatening bases to get fighter coverage of Western bases? Will it be to shut the door on movement of resources from the SRA and troops back from Burma?

I think you need to consider an exit strategy for China prior to 6/45. The dam holds for now, but it will break sooner rather than later. You'll get about a month and a half grace as the Allies catch up with you, maybe more if you can make selective defensive actions to stall them.

Get ahead of the pursuit, on rail lines and into Manchuria/Korea. Elsewise you'll have too much AV stuck in a sideshow. Open the Allied OOB for 1945. There's a LOT of AV, most unrestricted. Don't make my mistake of depending on the IJA '45 reinforcement list to help you - it looks impressive, but it's hollow.

Consolidate, consolidate, consolidate!

Given the strategic situation, first place for his next move goes to the north coast of Honshu. Second place to Korea. In either of those cases, all the AV in western China isn't much good to you.

Sure. The IJA China [R] units will be in China regardless, so I'll keep those in the mountains. All free units, will be moving to locations where they might be able to hold for a bit in x3 terrain, then (hopefully) moving back again. It all depends on how Dan proceeds down South. At least his air forces are well reduced and he can't bomb me out, even in the clear, down there.

Singers and Chungking are two big VP gains for the Allie, and if I can keep those for a bit it will certainly help. Time is at least on my side, and as I mentioned before, I don't really care too much about preparing for the Soviets. I can't stop them so why give up other suff early to consider slowing them down?

The Allied fleet and invasion possibilities now though are a bigger threat and very dangerous.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: obvert




I'm with you on Okinawa. That is a bigger priority for sure than Formosa.

For China, on thing about this game is that China is completely in the hands of the IJA. I've been holding off the hordes in the mountains, sometimes defending well with a 1:10 AV disadvantage, but the terrain and forts combined with better quality and experience of the units have been decisive. So I might face a different challenge. The majority of strength in China is in the mountains. I may want to stay there, only pulling back to defend Chunking if necessary.

As to the Soviets, if I'm still going strong by that point I will pull all Manchurian units back to good terrain, but we'll see. Defending the Peiping area would be a priority but of course so much of China can't really be defended either.

All of it is speculation though considering I'm a bit confused about what will happen in Dan's next move. Will it be to another main Home Island? Will it be to begin moving around and creating other threatening bases to get fighter coverage of Western bases? Will it be to shut the door on movement of resources from the SRA and troops back from Burma?

I think you need to consider an exit strategy for China prior to 6/45. The dam holds for now, but it will break sooner rather than later. You'll get about a month and a half grace as the Allies catch up with you, maybe more if you can make selective defensive actions to stall them.

Get ahead of the pursuit, on rail lines and into Manchuria/Korea. Elsewise you'll have too much AV stuck in a sideshow. Open the Allied OOB for 1945. There's a LOT of AV, most unrestricted. Don't make my mistake of depending on the IJA '45 reinforcement list to help you - it looks impressive, but it's hollow.

Consolidate, consolidate, consolidate!

Given the strategic situation, first place for his next move goes to the north coast of Honshu. Second place to Korea. In either of those cases, all the AV in western China isn't much good to you.

Sure. The IJA China [R] units will be in China regardless, so I'll keep those in the mountains. All free units, will be moving to locations where they might be able to hold for a bit in x3 terrain, then (hopefully) moving back again. It all depends on how Dan proceeds down South. At least his air forces are well reduced and he can't bomb me out, even in the clear, down there.

Singers and Chungking are two big VP gains for the Allie, and if I can keep those for a bit it will certainly help. Time is at least on my side, and as I mentioned before, I don't really care too much about preparing for the Soviets. I can't stop them so why give up other suff early to consider slowing them down?

The Allied fleet and invasion possibilities now though are a bigger threat and very dangerous.

Forgot about your house rules.

The big reason to withdraw early is unit preservation and to keep your strategic core. Look at how drastically your strategic situation changes if you lose Tsushima/Fusan - you know for a fact that Allied ships in NorPac can't hit anything west of Fusan without going round the long way (or get clobbered by the CD guns in the strait). That alone is a major benefit for Japan in 1945 - you can park your entire merchant fleet in the Yellow Sea and it's safe (bar subs). It also allows you to draw down garrison commitments on key bases (eg Northern Kyushu is fine as it's the "long way round"). In my view it's much more strategically relevant than China at this point.

Granted, Singers and Chungking are big VP sinks. Say you lose Singers and Chungking, that's a big VP swing.

Say you lose Singers and Chungking, along with five divisions defending each - now it's a much bigger VP swing.

But let's say you lose Singers and Chungking, but the Allies run into ten divisions defending Shanghai?

I think at this point your defensive strategy has to be dictated as "If I defend this base, will I be able to hold it till the victory cut off?". If the response is negative, you need to consolidate until you get a positive anwser.

It may seem like throwing points away, and to an extent it is, but it's making sure that you're not throwing good (army) points after bad (forlorn bases).

It's never an easy decision.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by Alfred »

Obvert doesn't have to defeat or even stymie the Soviets indefinitely.  What he does have to do is deny the Soviets until 1 September 1945 acquisition of base point victories.  Nor does he want to permit early Soviet base captures to be reassigned to American HQ assignment and the deployment of non Soviet air power there which is able to strike at important Japanese bases.
 
Army losses against the Soviets will be inevitable but a 1:1 loss ratio is still a good outcome.  Soviet air will field good airframes in August but pilot experience will lag.  That gives a good opportunity for good Japanese pilots to achieve a better than 1:1 air victory ratio.  On day 2 of Soviet mobilisation there is a chance that much of the Soviet navy may be caught disbanded although that would entail risking entangling with the strongest Soviet air defences at Vladivostok.
 
I wouldn't seriously consider a strategic retreat from the Soviets before September.  Japanese control of the air can go a long way to stymieing the Soviets.
 
Alfred 
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Forgot about your house rules.

The big reason to withdraw early is unit preservation and to keep your strategic core. Look at how drastically your strategic situation changes if you lose Tsushima/Fusan - you know for a fact that Allied ships in NorPac can't hit anything west of Fusan without going round the long way (or get clobbered by the CD guns in the strait). That alone is a major benefit for Japan in 1945 - you can park your entire merchant fleet in the Yellow Sea and it's safe (bar subs). It also allows you to draw down garrison commitments on key bases (eg Northern Kyushu is fine as it's the "long way round"). In my view it's much more strategically relevant than China at this point.

Granted, Singers and Chungking are big VP sinks. Say you lose Singers and Chungking, that's a big VP swing.

Say you lose Singers and Chungking, along with five divisions defending each - now it's a much bigger VP swing.

But let's say you lose Singers and Chungking, but the Allies run into ten divisions defending Shanghai?

I think at this point your defensive strategy has to be dictated as "If I defend this base, will I be able to hold it till the victory cut off?". If the response is negative, you need to consolidate until you get a positive anwser.

It may seem like throwing points away, and to an extent it is, but it's making sure that you're not throwing good (army) points after bad (forlorn bases).

It's never an easy decision.

Allied units attacking any strong base may lose a good chunk as well, especially Singers where the crossing must be made or a landing committed amphibiously.

When the Allies are forced to fight in areas I have invested in defence, the chances are that they will struggle to gain a 2:1 win in either air losses or troop losses. Even with the nature of the recent battles, all taking place on islands where the garrison must be left to be reduced after defeat, the Allies haven't quite achieved a 2:1 VP ratio during the past nine months.

2,671 Allied army VP losses to 4,666 IJ Army VP losses

In the air, after recent successes, we're actually ahead over the past year, the only area where the Japanese have gained ground.

I see what you're saying, but I thin of myself in this situation and if I were playing the Allies I'd be overjoyed at a large scale Japanese withdrawal from the SRA at this point. The weaknesses he can't yet see still seem formidable.

I also see it as a question of time. Delay is a factor here, and may not only lead to a psychological imperative to take more risks, but also a real difficulty in getting to some of those other deeper VP bases and troop concentrations.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I think the dam in the mountains of China will not break, it will have to be circumvented.

And if the IJA units continue to sit there, the Allies may decide to better through, making the VP count for Allied losses worth the loss of those IJA units. I hope, anyway! [:)]
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: obvert


...I do need more troops on Formosa, but I'll have to take them from Honshu to do that, which is risky too. There are, as you know, just too many places to cover effectively. Daito and the little islands to the North could be easily taken, and those would provide close-in fighter support for strat bombing as well as limiting any further transport to the Home Islands. I'm flooding units to North Honshu and to Kysushu to get a mobile reserve ready close to anything. I'll move something to every pile of rock around, but I can't put a division everywhere just yet.

Tsushima is a massive fort, but I'd not even though of it as a target. I can drop a brigade there and fly in more quickly if he moves that way.

Do not weaken the Home Islands defences. Japan remains well on track to achieving a significant game victory. The Allies have less than 5 months to get to a 2:1 auto victory ratio. Their only hope of getting anywhere near that is by capturing Home Island bases combined with strategic bombing.

Based on developments to date in this game I very much doubt the Allies will even achieve a 1.26:1 ratio by the end of August 1945. That only places them in marginal Allied victory territory which is of course very far short of the historical outcome which in keeping with the game design victory conditions means crowing rights to Japan.

Unless that Allied auto victory is gained by 31 August 1945, the end game auto victory level adjustment mechanism will see the worst outcome for Japan being a draw, with a Japanese marginal victory being the most likely adjusted outcome.

Alfred

This is incorrect.

The Allies can achieve a decisive victory only by achieving AV prior to 9/1/1945. Between 9/1/1945 and 12/31/1945, the Allies can still achieve a marginal victory.

Japan only achieves a draw if the Allies achieve 2:1 "autovictory" on 1/1/1946 or later.

If the Allies never reach 2:1, Japan achieves at least a marginal victory.


That is not to say that I don't think the Allied victory vs. draw line shouldn't be drawn on 9/1/45 or 9/30/45 instead of on 12/31/45.

From personal experience, the Soviets can conquer the entirety of Manchuria in a couple of months without breaking a sweat.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by Lowpe »

I would urge caution on aerial bombarding Vlad to nail disbanded ships. 1. the port is large lessening hits, 2. Soviet AA is tough and most likely up to the job of making the strike a negative VP attempt however, sweeping there is another most likely positive VP endeavor.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

From personal experience, the Soviets can conquer the entirety of Manchuria in a couple of months without breaking a sweat.

yeah, they can. [:(][:(][:(]
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by mind_messing »

Alfred's point about being able to trade 1:1 with the Japanese is worth discussing, as it reinforces the need for all IJA units to be on favourable terrain - Russian units (with their superior tanks and artillery) can afford to take massive losses and are better suited to doing so.

For reference and consideration: the VP value of a typical late war full-strength IJA division (in this case, IJA Type B Kwantung division), when destroyed completely, nets the Allies around 140 VPs, give or take.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by Alfred »

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: obvert


...I do need more troops on Formosa, but I'll have to take them from Honshu to do that, which is risky too. There are, as you know, just too many places to cover effectively. Daito and the little islands to the North could be easily taken, and those would provide close-in fighter support for strat bombing as well as limiting any further transport to the Home Islands. I'm flooding units to North Honshu and to Kysushu to get a mobile reserve ready close to anything. I'll move something to every pile of rock around, but I can't put a division everywhere just yet.

Tsushima is a massive fort, but I'd not even though of it as a target. I can drop a brigade there and fly in more quickly if he moves that way.

Do not weaken the Home Islands defences. Japan remains well on track to achieving a significant game victory. The Allies have less than 5 months to get to a 2:1 auto victory ratio. Their only hope of getting anywhere near that is by capturing Home Island bases combined with strategic bombing.

Based on developments to date in this game I very much doubt the Allies will even achieve a 1.26:1 ratio by the end of August 1945. That only places them in marginal Allied victory territory which is of course very far short of the historical outcome which in keeping with the game design victory conditions means crowing rights to Japan.

Unless that Allied auto victory is gained by 31 August 1945, the end game auto victory level adjustment mechanism will see the worst outcome for Japan being a draw, with a Japanese marginal victory being the most likely adjusted outcome.

Alfred

This is incorrect.

The Allies can achieve a decisive victory only by achieving AV prior to 9/1/1945. Between 9/1/1945 and 12/31/1945, the Allies can still achieve a marginal victory.

Japan only achieves a draw if the Allies achieve 2:1 "autovictory" on 1/1/1946 or later.

If the Allies never reach 2:1, Japan achieves at least a marginal victory.


That is not to say that I don't think the Allied victory vs. draw line shouldn't be drawn on 9/1/45 or 9/30/45 instead of on 12/31/45.

From personal experience, the Soviets can conquer the entirety of Manchuria in a couple of months without breaking a sweat.

In this match the Allies are not going to just miss out on achieving an auto victory by the end of August. Either they will get to the 2:1 ratio (or be hovering very close to it) after a couple of weeks of Soviet activity or they will be well south of having a 1.3:1 ratio by the end of August. From there they will not climb to 2:1 by January 1946. It would even be very courageous to assume they could even climb to 1.76:1 by the end of the scenario.

I've seen enough in this match to know that obvert is employing the correct strategy and tactics to stymie an auto Allied victory. The only risk is if Home Island bases (Honshu in particular) are lost or a concentrated strategic air campaign is mounted. Both are very difficult to achieve in the presence of the formidable Japanese air power. It is that air power which ensures that the Japanese VPs continue to climb steadily, and will still do so should big VP base generators like Singapore be lost.

Without the certain knowledge that the Soviets will enter the war I would be very sceptical of the western Allies alone getting to a 1.26:1 ratio by the end of March 1946. That then gets auto adjusted.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]April 4-5, 1945[/font]
There is still a long way to go in this one until the dates where I can feel like I've accomplished something. Dan has proven he's willing to take big risks to put things on track for the allies, as with his move to the North after taking the game over.

On the 4th the Allies try to close Bihoro after several sweeps based there tried to hit the Kuriles last turn. Flak gets to a good amount of 4Es on the day, which is positive. The real purpose of the strikes becomes clear the next day.

The DS moved into position to cover some kind of what looks to be removal of troops from Kushiro. This again makes me think there will be no more focus on Hokkaido and the troops I have there can be shifted a bit toward Honshu as well.

Some errant Kates meant to hit single ship raiders hit the wall of CAP on the DS and I learned something about it's new makeup. There are a lot more Wildcat variants than there used to be, and a lot of Hellcats as well. Not so many of Cosairs as I'd expect at this time of the game, so I'm guessing that's out of necessity rather than choice. Still a big tough crowd with 1400+ planes. Not going near that for now.
[font="Trebuchet MS"][/font]
[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 4, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Bihoro , at 123,51

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 83
P-51D Mustang x 55

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 47 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 21

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Uruppu-jima , at 130,52

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 43 NM, estimated altitude 46,530 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 49

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Ki-83 sweeping at 41530 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Kushiro , at 123,53

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 84 NM, estimated altitude 44,370 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 3

Allied aircraft
Seafire L.III x 2
F4U-1D Corsair x 2

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Seafire L.III: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x N1K5-J George sweeping at 39370 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Paramushiro-jima (137,47)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 31253 troops, 604 guns, 506 vehicles, Assault Value = 640

Defending force 7590 troops, 131 guns, 228 vehicles, Assault Value = 110

Allied adjusted assault: 317

Japanese adjusted defense: 39

Allied assault odds: 8 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied forces CAPTURE Paramushiro-jima !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1032 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 38 disabled
Non Combat: 133 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 48 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 62 (62 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 93 (93 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
154 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 16 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled

Engineers: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Assaulting units:
37th Infantry Division
6th Infantry Division
158th(Sep) Infantry Regiment
58th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
37th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
4th Field Artillery Battalion
1st Medium Regiment

Defending units:
56th Div /1
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
7th Area Army /1
12th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
19th RF Gun Battalion
2nd Air Fleet /2
1st Amphibious Bde /1
Kitachishima Fortress
6th JNAF AF Unit
Wake Cst Gun Bn /1

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 5, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TF 423 encounters mine field at Hakodate (119,53)

Allied Ships
SS Manta, Mine hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Wenchow at 90,61

Japanese Ships
xAK Banshu Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SC CHa-53
xAK Taihei Maru
xAK Jinsai Maru
PB Wa 9

Allied Ships
SS Sea Cat

SS Sea Cat launches 6 torpedoes at xAK Banshu Maru
Sea Cat diving deep ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kushiro at 122,53

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 10

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 14
Corsair IV x 21
Hellcat I x 5
Hellcat F.II x 13
Seafire IIC x 11
Seafire L.III x 1
F4F-4 Wildcat x 22
FM-2 Wildcat x 67
F4U-1A Corsair x 100
F4U-1D Corsair x 365
F6F-3 Hellcat x 345
F6F-5 Hellcat x 556

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 7 destroyed

No Allied losses

CAP engaged:
VRF-7F with F6F-5 Hellcat (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
Raid is overhead
VF-33 with F6F-5 Hellcat (8 airborne, 17 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
VF-38 with F4U-1D Corsair (7 airborne, 15 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
VF-40 with F6F-5 Hellcat (8 airborne, 17 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 37300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
VF-1 with F6F-5 Hellcat (5 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
VF-2 with F4U-1D Corsair (8 airborne, 17 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 39300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
VBF-3 with F4F-4 Wildcat (7 airborne, 15 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 28300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
VF-42 with F4U-1D Corsair (8 airborne, 17 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 39300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
VF-6 with F4U-1D Corsair (7 airborne, 16 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 39300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
VBF-6 with FM-2 Wildcat (8 airborne, 16 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 6000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 34700.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
VF-7 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 9 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 37300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
VF-10 with F6F-5 Hellcat (8 airborne, 17 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
VF-11 with F4U-1D Corsair (8 airborne, 18 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
VBF-13 with FM-2 Wildcat (9 airborne, 20 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 6000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 6000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
VF-16 with F6F-5 Hellcat (5 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 37300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
VBF-16 with F4U-1D Corsair (8 airborne, 17 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
VF-18 with F4U-1D Corsair (7 airborne, 16 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
VF-22 with F6F-5 Hellcat (5 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 8000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
VF-23 with F6F-3 Hellcat (5 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 8000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
VF-24 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 8000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 37300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Alfred


In this match the Allies are not going to just miss out on achieving an auto victory by the end of August. Either they will get to the 2:1 ratio (or be hovering very close to it) after a couple of weeks of Soviet activity or they will be well south of having a 1.3:1 ratio by the end of August. From there they will not climb to 2:1 by January 1946. It would even be very courageous to assume they could even climb to 1.76:1 by the end of the scenario.

I've seen enough in this match to know that obvert is employing the correct strategy and tactics to stymie an auto Allied victory. The only risk is if Home Island bases (Honshu in particular) are lost

I disagree with this assessment, but we'll see.

Because:
or a concentrated strategic air campaign is mounted.

While it's technically possible and I think this game is closer than most, I don't think Japanese air power can continue to achieve positive VP trades for another 12+ months (or even beyond another 6-7 months).

Furthermore, even if CR never takes another base near Japan with the Western Allies forces, the Soviets are entirely capable of controlling Manchuria and all of Korea before 1946 (even accounting for CR's conservative nature on the ground). It's a game changer.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by Capt. Harlock »

While it's technically possible and I think this game is closer than most, I don't think Japanese air power can continue to achieve positive VP trades for another 12+ months (or even beyond another 6-7 months).

I have to wonder. The fact that Dan is using FM-2 Wildcats, and seems to be low on Corsairs, is a positive indicator. What's more, the majority of the battles are going to take place over Japanese bases, or be sweeps, so the quality of the Japanese pilot corps should not suffer. I see few new threats until the F8F Bearcats arrive.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by Lokasenna »

He still gets several hundred F6F-5 and F4U-1D per month though, and that's just for the USN. And the bombers themselves will take a small toll.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]April 6-8, 1945[/font]
Virtually nothing happened on the 6th, but on the 7th I tried sweeping Uruppa-Jima where some fighters were based i range. The Ki-83 only got 1:1 in this more distant sweep, and the FM-2 held their own, surprisingly. Allied flak losses still made it a positive day for the Japanese in the air.

The DS has retired out of sight.

In Burma I tried more sweeps on the 8th. Again, got about 2:1 there but the Allies sent the P-47Ns to Sedai and did well there to even things up.

So far the retreat in Burma is going as planned. A very small unit sitting in Moulmein to act as rear guard and scout.
[font="Trebuchet MS"][/font]
[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 7, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Etorofu , at 128,52

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 45 NM, estimated altitude 44,530 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 46

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 12
Spitfire VIII x 11
P-38L Lightning x 13
FM-2 Wildcat x 41
F4U-1A Corsair x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 7 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair II: 1 destroyed
FM-2 Wildcat: 6 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Etorofu , at 128,52

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 27 NM, estimated altitude 44,530 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 39

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 9
Spitfire VIII x 10
P-38L Lightning x 12
FM-2 Wildcat x 28
F4U-1A Corsair x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 10 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair II: 1 destroyed
Spitfire VIII: 2 destroyed
FM-2 Wildcat: 5 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed


[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 8, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Morning Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 28 NM, estimated altitude 43,530 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 35

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 4
Wildcat V x 21
Spitfire VIII x 22
Thunderbolt I x 9
Thunderbolt II x 3
P-38L Lightning x 10
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 5
P-51D Mustang x 25
F4F-4 Wildcat x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Wildcat V: 1 destroyed
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
21 x Ki-83 sweeping at 41530 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 42 NM, estimated altitude 43,530 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 45

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 4
Wildcat V x 17
Spitfire VIII x 18
Thunderbolt I x 8
Thunderbolt II x 2
P-38L Lightning x 9
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 5
P-51D Mustang x 24
F4F-4 Wildcat x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Wildcat V: 2 destroyed
Thunderbolt I: 1 destroyed
P-38L Lightning: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 4 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
22 x Ki-83 sweeping at 41530 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Etorofu , at 128,52

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 21 NM, estimated altitude 47,530 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 21

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 8
Spitfire VIII x 7
P-38L Lightning x 11
P-39D Airacobra x 11
FM-2 Wildcat x 15
F4U-1A Corsair x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed
FM-2 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 159 NM, estimated altitude 45,530 feet.
Estimated time to target is 39 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 38

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 4
Wildcat V x 11
Spitfire VIII x 15
Thunderbolt I x 5
Thunderbolt II x 2
P-38L Lightning x 8
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 4
P-51D Mustang x 21
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Wildcat V: 2 destroyed
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-83 sweeping at 41530 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Sendai , at 117,58

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 43 NM, estimated altitude 48,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84r Frank x 49
Ki-100-II Tony x 24

Allied aircraft
P-47N Thunderbolt x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 3 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 3 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47N Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Sendai , at 117,58

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 46,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84r Frank x 43
Ki-100-II Tony x 12

Allied aircraft
P-47N Thunderbolt x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 9 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 2 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47N Thunderbolt: 4 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]April 9-10, 1945[/font]
The 9th was only three actions on the combat report. Very unlike this game. Dan is taking a breather. Something new must be about to launch.

The Allies crash over into Moulmein on the 9th. It was worth leaving one unit there to be sure I know what is coming. Almost 10kAV of good Allied troops on the way. I've split my force, so now the questions remains; how will he allocate his troops? All in to Raheng or to Bangkok? Or a split with some on each route. I've got enough of a start that only some naval guards and a few Army HQs are in danger of being caught out. Map below.
[font="Trebuchet MS"][/font]
[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 9, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Truk , at 112,108

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 8
B-24D1 Liberator x 3

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 5 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 2 damaged

Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 10, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub attack near Wenchow at 90,61

Japanese Ships
xAK Hukuzyu Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Genzan Maru
xAK Asama Maru #2
PB Fumi Maru #3

Allied Ships
SS Sea Cat

SS Sea Cat launches 4 torpedoes at xAK Hukuzyu Maru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Wenchow at 90,61

Japanese Ships
xAK Hukuzyu Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Sea Cat

xAK Hukuzyu Maru is sighted by SS Sea Cat
SS Sea Cat launches 4 torpedoes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Moulmein (55,55)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 109472 troops, 1722 guns, 1739 vehicles, Assault Value = 9563

Defending force 421 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 8

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 3483

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 3483 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Moulmein !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
614 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 29 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1


Allied ground losses:
64 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled

Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Assaulting units:
1st New Chinese Corps
5th Chinese Corps
XV Corps Engineer Battalion
Americal Infantry Division
27th Infantry Division
18th British Division
19th Motorised Division
5th Indian Division
32nd Infantry Division
11th Indian Division
9th Indian Division
754th Tank Battalion
11th (East African) Division
23rd Indian Division
14th Indian Division
3rd New Chinese Corps
7th Indian Division
7th Australian Division
40th Infantry Division
29th British Brigade
41st Infantry Division
I Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
6th Australian Division
9th Australian Division
97th Field Artillery Battalion
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
21st Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
Y' Force
8th Mahratta AT Gun Regiment
122nd British AT Gun Regiment
86th Medium Regiment
14th Army
XXXIII Indian Corps
30th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
8th Medium Regiment
2/11th Field Regiment
134th Medium Regiment

Defending units:
5th Raiding Force

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]

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