Should I ?

[nukkxx5058]

Hello everybody !

I know about this game since the release date but, for some reasons, I didn't paid much attention to it. The main reasons are:

1) the game was released without AI
2) I didn't have much interest in the WW2 conflict at the time
3) I wasn't really playing PBEM multiplayer games.

But it appears that I'm now becoming passionate about the study of WW2 and also, playing multiplayer PBEM is becoming my passion. Hence my question: should I buy it ?

In fact I have some additional questions:

a) is the game still maintained/improved by the devs and by the community ? patches, DLCs, mods,etc.
b) How active is the community ?
c) How easy is it to find players committed to PBEM ? What if you're a newbie ? Are there not too many quitters ?
d) How long would last a game ?
e) is there a WiF 2.0 coming soon or any other product that will make the game obsolete/outdated ?
f) How complex is it compared to the Gary Grigsby "War In ..." series ?

Geeee I'm really looking at buying this but my cash is so low these days, I wanna be sure I won't regret.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

PS: I never played the board game

[petergarnett]

If you have teamviewer (which is free to use) there are several players, including myself, with whom you can play on their copy to try out this game using the barbarossa scenario. To play fully though you need you own copy of course.
In terms of complexity my opinion is that it is similar to the Grigsby games.
However, there are many elements to the game so do not add too many optional rules to begin with.

[nukkxx5058]

In fact, I like complex games, as complex as possible in fact (of course if it's well done, not complexity for the sake of it ...).
To be honest, I'm just a bit annoyed by the 90km hex size ... seems a bit too macro for me. But I understand that with a map of this size it's hard to get 20 km/hex and remain playable...
I also have a question about Chain of Command model and supply. Is it detailed like in GG games with several levels ?

[nukkxx5058]

Oh !!! I didn't notice but it seems the game is on sale for 39$ instead of 100$ !!! This solves my problem. Done !

Downloading !!!

[nukkxx5058]

Just installed and launched it. My first comment is : Ouch !!

I had several crashes and error messages during launching the first game but who know why, it's eventually loaded.

I'm surprised that the game version is 1.00 (the install file is WorldinFlames-SetupRelease-v100). When I launch the updater it says my version is up to date. But on the foirum I can see several updates. Where can I check the number of my current version ?
Thanks.

[PeteGarnett]

Look in the main WiF forum for the update links.

[nukkxx5058]

I just updated the game to the latest beta 2.09 ! Crashes are gone.
I'm watching the tutorial videos. They are very well done, clear and pleasant to watch.
I'm extremely impressed by what I'm seeing !! The game seems HUGE !

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

In fact I have some additional questions:

a) is the game still maintained/improved by the devs and by the community ? patches, DLCs, mods,etc.
b) How active is the community ?
c) How easy is it to find players committed to PBEM ? What if you're a newbie ? Are there not too many quitters ?
d) How long would last a game ?
e) is there a WiF 2.0 coming soon or any other product that will make the game obsolete/outdated ?
f) How complex is it compared to the Gary Grigsby "War In ..." series ?

Some quick brief (IMO) answers:
a) developer continues working on it constantly
b) very active considering it is not a large one
c) there are several ways to play PBEM, but there is no official "PBEM mode", search for PBEM in the forum
d) depends on how committed the players are to playing but a full Global War game in PBEM (or even Teamviviewer) could easily last over a year
e) this product is a "one of"
f) it is a complex game for sure, but nothing is hidden in terms of how and why things happen if you are willing to learn

[nukkxx5058]

Thanks for this answers ! Looks great.
As I already said I decided to buy it on sale and I'm currently watching the videos. I'm totally stunned. It seems a totally new way to play wargames on PC ! In fact, rather than a new way, it's a return to the good old board game way. This is very exciting ! Lots of rules but so detailed. And a 700-page manual [&o][&o][&o]
Very very promising.

[Vanman]

It is an AMAZING game, absolutely outstanding. My favourite of all time. Peter Garnett (see above) and I have played together numerous times and we still experience many moments where we say to each other: 'what a game'. As stated, he and I use Teamviewer in conjunction with play by email so we needn't always be online at the same time (particularly 'rail' to the 'land moves' phase). It is my understanding that other players use automated die rolling sites to help out. Here is a link to one: http://www.pbegames.com/roller/#theRoller. We use this sparingly as our times generally align quite well. For the Global War scenario we recommend you adapt the following two 'house rules' (we learned this the hard way):

1. There is a Russo-Japanese Neutrality Pact in effect. Garrison ratio (as per the rules) can only be broken by either side if Garrison value above 6 to 1 in 1939, 5 to 1 in 1940, 4 to 1 in 1941, 3 to 1 in 1942 etc. We found not playing with this rule tends to kill games early and so getting deep into the game just was not happening (either Japan was falling apart early in dealing with both USSR & China or the Soviets overcommitted and were crushed by the Wehrmacht).

2. If the Axis do not win outright, they can still win by having more than 15 Objectives by the end of July/August 1945. Less than 15 = Allies win. 15 even = game ends in a tie. Many Axis players quit when the war goes against them and this rule provides an incentive to keep at it and still come away victorious.

For myself I mostly learned by playing rather than the manual (though you have to use both really). Learning via experience tends to work best. I played solo for awhile but it gets dull relatively quickly. Enjoy!

[nukkxx5058]

ORIGINAL: Vanman

It is an AMAZING game, absolutely outstanding. My favourite of all time. Peter Garnett (see above) and I have played together numerous times and we still experience many moments where we say to each other: 'what a game'. As stated, he and I use Teamviewer in conjunction with play by email so we needn't always be online at the same time (particularly 'rail' to the 'land moves' phase). It is my understanding that other players use automated die rolling sites to help out. Here is a link to one: http://www.pbegames.com/roller/#theRoller. We use this sparingly as our times generally align quite well. For the Global War scenario we recommend you adapt the following two 'house rules' (we learned this the hard way):

1. There is a Russo-Japanese Neutrality Pact in effect. Garrison ratio (as per the rules) can only be broken by either side if Garrison value above 6 to 1 in 1939, 5 to 1 in 1940, 4 to 1 in 1941, 3 to 1 in 1942 etc. We found not playing with this rule tends to kill games early and so getting deep into the game just was not happening (either Japan was falling apart early in dealing with both USSR & China or the Soviets overcommitted and were crushed by the Wehrmacht).

2. If the Axis do not win outright, they can still win by having more than 15 Objectives by the end of July/August 1945. Less than 15 = Allies win. 15 even = game ends in a tie. Many Axis players quit when the war goes against them and this rule provides an incentive to keep at it and still come away victorious.

For myself I mostly learned by playing rather than the manual (though you have to use both really). Learning via experience tends to work best. I played solo for awhile but it gets dull relatively quickly. Enjoy!

Thanks, very interesting information. Will certainly have a look at TeamViewer (never heard about before today) and the pbegame site yo mentioned ! So far I managed to play one full turn of Barbarossa (I'm now in August/Sept 41). It was very helpful to understand how the game is working. I'm impressed by the number of different windows and the possibilities seem enormous On another side, I really like the art in the game. Very lovely counters and map ! Definitely feels like a board game. I'm very happy I took the decision to buy this game.
But yes, playing solitaire both sides must be quickly boring and the game is designed for MP and I believe it's shining this way ! So the information you sent on how to organize a MP game is very useful. Thanks again !

[Vanman]

If you download 'Teamviewer' let me know and I can have you come on my computer and see how it works. Real simple actually. I can also show you the game Pete and I are currently playing. I downloaded a few graphic mods that make the art even look better. Your call. You can email me at vancanste@shaw.ca if you are interested.

[nukkxx5058]

ORIGINAL: Vanman

If you download 'Teamviewer' let me know and I can have you come on my computer and see how it works. Real simple actually. I can also show you the game Pete and I are currently playing. I downloaded a few graphic mods that make the art even look better. Your call. You can email me at vancanste@shaw.ca if you are interested.

Sure, will DL TeamViewer. And yes I'm interested to have a look at how it works and also to see your game (and your map mod !!). What time zone are you in ? Eastern Canada ? I'm in Bulgaria so it's already 2 AM here ... time to move to bed [>:][>:][>:]
But we definitely need to arrange a meeting. In fact, I do have lots of free time these days so it's maybe easier if you tell me when it's convenient for you. For me it will be.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Vanman

2. If the Axis do not win outright, they can still win by having more than 15 Objectives by the end of July/August 1945. Less than 15 = Allies win. 15 even = game ends in a tie. Many Axis players quit when the war goes against them and this rule provides an incentive to keep at it and still come away victorious.

This is the way my regular opponent and I played the boardgame because we weren't interested in bidding with just two players and that count is what everyone bidding zero would yield.

However if the USA aligns both Mexico and Brazil, then we reduce the Axis requirement to 14. I think in CE, this becomes 10 and 9, versus 15 and 14.

[AlbertN]

a) is the game still maintained/improved by the devs and by the community ? patches, DLCs, mods,etc.
By what I see it is still being developed and patched.
I doubt DLCs will come out and the game is not moddable beyond cosmetic looks by what I saw or maybe adding some units - namely the KIF ones. (For the better)

b) How active is the community ?
It seems there are some regulars.

c) How easy is it to find players committed to PBEM ? What if you're a newbie ? Are there not too many quitters ?
Not really a PBEM game for my perspective. It is very interactive and is far from the old wargame formula of IGO-UGO.
Quitting is often a problem, due to the long term investment a match is - if you play campaign.
Newbye should prolly start with smaller scenarios or some single player practice or at least find someone that are up to play grand campaign for 1 year and start over so they get the grip of things.

d) How long would last a game ?
Lots of time for Grand Campaign. Depend how frequently you can play / hours per week you can devote to it.

e) is there a WiF 2.0 coming soon or any other product that will make the game obsolete/outdated ?
Matrix WiF itself is 'obsolete' compared to the tabletop game it sprung from, that moved on to a new editions (some rules changed, some counters modified, etc).
I doubt there will be a MWiF 2.0 though in the foreseeable future!

f) How complex is it compared to the Gary Grigsby "War In ..." series ?
I own only War in the East and abandoned it long ago. Mental games are not for me - WiF has the HUGE benefit of being a translation from a tabletop game.
It means it is a game in human mind reach, I can simply see this plane is worth 5 or 6, or so it that land unit.
A unit is in supply or out of supply.
There are no obscure, astral equations of "Hmm my unit can fight as 1 or 20 strength... depending if the leader check pass, if the morale check pass, if they get airplanes there or not, if the support battallion manages to get committed, etc".
WiF beats other strategy games hands down. If you want a valid Gary Grigsby game, go for the old World at War. Elegant, simple in rules (to grip at least), without strange obscure mechanisms.

[nukkxx5058]

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith

a) is the game still maintained/improved by the devs and by the community ? patches, DLCs, mods,etc.
By what I see it is still being developed and patched.
I doubt DLCs will come out and the game is not moddable beyond cosmetic looks by what I saw or maybe adding some units - namely the KIF ones. (For the better)

b) How active is the community ?
It seems there are some regulars.

c) How easy is it to find players committed to PBEM ? What if you're a newbie ? Are there not too many quitters ?
Not really a PBEM game for my perspective. It is very interactive and is far from the old wargame formula of IGO-UGO.
Quitting is often a problem, due to the long term investment a match is - if you play campaign.
Newbye should prolly start with smaller scenarios or some single player practice or at least find someone that are up to play grand campaign for 1 year and start over so they get the grip of things.

d) How long would last a game ?
Lots of time for Grand Campaign. Depend how frequently you can play / hours per week you can devote to it.

e) is there a WiF 2.0 coming soon or any other product that will make the game obsolete/outdated ?
Matrix WiF itself is 'obsolete' compared to the tabletop game it sprung from, that moved on to a new editions (some rules changed, some counters modified, etc).
I doubt there will be a MWiF 2.0 though in the foreseeable future!

f) How complex is it compared to the Gary Grigsby "War In ..." series ?
I own only War in the East and abandoned it long ago. Mental games are not for me - WiF has the HUGE benefit of being a translation from a tabletop game.
It means it is a game in human mind reach, I can simply see this plane is worth 5 or 6, or so it that land unit.
A unit is in supply or out of supply.
There are no obscure, astral equations of "Hmm my unit can fight as 1 or 20 strength... depending if the leader check pass, if the morale check pass, if they get airplanes there or not, if the support battallion manages to get committed, etc".
WiF beats other strategy games hands down. If you want a valid Gary Grigsby game, go for the old World at War. Elegant, simple in rules (to grip at least), without strange obscure mechanisms.

Thanks for this great detailed answer ! As I said, I already purchased the game and TBH I don't regret it. It seems to be a wonderful piece of software and IMO opens totally new PC (war)game perspectives. A new paradigm based on old principles ?! I'm still discovering the game for sure but it definitely reminds me the good old time of board games ! Just for this it was worth buying. Now, I'm thinking about how to play this online. But I definitely need to spend more time in it. (just started a solo/schizophrenic Barbarossa).

[juntoalmar]

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith
WiF has the HUGE benefit of being a translation from a tabletop game.
It means it is a game in human mind reach, I can simply see this plane is worth 5 or 6, or so it that land unit.
A unit is in supply or out of supply.
There are no obscure, astral equations of "Hmm my unit can fight as 1 or 20 strength... depending if the leader check pass, if the morale check pass, if they get airplanes there or not, if the support battallion manages to get committed, etc".
WiF beats other strategy games hands down. If you want a valid Gary Grigsby game, go for the old World at War. Elegant, simple in rules (to grip at least), without strange obscure mechanisms.

This is exactly why I love MWiF compared to other wargames. Everything is visible/public. You attack 24 factors vs 6, and that's the 4:1 column in the combat result table, then you have a -1 for weather and +1 for armor, you got an 8 in the roll dice and the result is 2 defenders killed. The game shows you all the calculations and you can follow them with the rules and learn why that combat didn't succeeded, if your strategy was wrong or if you just had bad luck with the dice.

I don't like those games where each unit has 12 different factors (strength, preparation, morale, supply, leadership, ...) and you just simply don't know why things happen.

[Vanman]

As one fellow 'Perverted Canadian' to another, I must admit (no not that) that I probably garnered the 15 objective cities idea from you. I saw it posted once and thought it a brilliant idea. Now, based on perpetual geographic precedence I should have said "sorry" but there is no shame in 'wargamers plagiarism' from what I understand. Its usually 'by any means necessary.'

Anyways, glad to see a fellow Canuck here as beyond 'CanInf' in Calgary you are the only other one I have met here (I need to get out more). In the pre-Cambrian I used to belong to a wargamers group in the burbs of Vancouver but lost contact ages ago. Playing Empires in Arms was lots of fun back then.