AC armor questoin?

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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BBfanboy
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RE: AC armor questoin?

Post by BBfanboy »

Thank you Alfred! That clears up all the fuzziness I had about the subject. (until I forget again ...)

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Anachro
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RE: AC armor questoin?

Post by Anachro »

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Armor represents whether the aircraft had protective armor and/or self-sealing fuel tanks in which case it rates a rating of a 1. A few aircraft warrant a 2 or greater due to special design characteristics.

Japanese HB Rita has level 2 armor in John's BTS mod, well the upgraded 4/45 variant does. [:)]

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EDIT

Wow, reading up on wikipedia, I'm surprised this variant isn't included...or is it? John!?
One proposed variant was the G8N2 Renzan-Kai Model 22, powered by four 2,200 hp Mitsubishi MK9A radial engines and modified to accept attachment of the air-launched Ohka Type 33 Special Attack Bomber

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The Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka (Ōka, "cherry blossom") was a purpose-built, rocket-powered human-guided kamikaze attack aircraft employed by Japan against Allied ships towards the end of World War II. United States sailors gave the aircraft the nickname Baka ("fool" or "idiot").

Late war stuff is pretty cool. Is this in game?
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Barb
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RE: AC armor questoin?

Post by Barb »

Yup, Ohka (or Baka) is in the game, but not as plane type, but rather as ordonance. There are two versions IIRC - Model 11 (See in Mitsubishi G4M2e Betty bomber) and Model 22 (See in Yokosuka P1Y2 Frances bomber). I think there was a database glitch in the official release Scen.1 that caused the bomb devices were not produced and thus were not used in the game. One of the later releases fixed it with Database Patch (it also fixed the Ki-44 Tojo engine type and IJAAF BF Bn Radar upgrade path among others) so they are available for use

As for the G8N Rita it is again not available in the Scen 1. But other scenarios and Mods could have it.
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Yaab
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RE: AC armor questoin?

Post by Yaab »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

The aircraft armor number is an abstracted rating.  It does not represent either an imperial or metric measurement value.

In broad terms the abstracted armor rating represents the degree of vulnerability to the calibre size of anti aircraft weapons.  Hence a rating of 0 is vulnerable to any calibre size (including a David firing off a slingshot), a rating of 1 ups the vulnerability to above rifle calibre size, and a rating of 2 ups it further to cannon calibre.  Specific vulnerability can be determined by comparing the abstracted penetration value of the anti aircraft weapon.

Survivability of a pilot is not based on the aircraft armor rating.

Alfred

With the caveat that the land-base equivalents of aircraft weapons can somehow negate the armor bonus of aircraft on Grnd Attack missions.
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RE: AC armor questoin?

Post by Alfred »

Armor does not give a bonus to aircraft.  There is therefore nothing which can be negated by "land-base equivalents".
 
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RE: AC armor questoin?

Post by m10bob »

Trivia...In real life, the United States even issued AP rounds for the M1 Garand, and they were in use in the ETO in 1944.
They had the ability to punch holes in the German SdKfz 251 (which was why they were issued.
Hitherto, the German armored infantry had been successful in "blitzkreiging" with speed and moving their infantry safe with those halftracks, but when they encountered regular American infantry with "ordinary rifles" capable of ending the charade, it became less a threat for the Allied forces inn Europe.

The rounds themselves were common to obtain,and became very popular after 1943 when the G.I.'s encountered the need for them in North Africa. Before then, the ratio issued was 60% Ball, 20% AP, and 20% tracer. After that, the ratio was 80% AP and 20% Tracer.

Years ago, I mentioned this to friends/fellow gamers in the fantastic SPWAW forums, and while I was able to prove this doctrine, it was pointed out the rounds should not be included in the game due to "game balance" issues.

Like I said...This is listed here as "trivia."...[;)]
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m10bob
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RE: AC armor questoin?

Post by m10bob »

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Will 12.7mm and above penetrate AC armor? I want to say it does, but can't remember.


Check this site.

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infa ... _ammo.html
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rustysi
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RE: AC armor questoin?

Post by rustysi »

ORIGINAL: rustysi
Is not AC "armor" represented by the Durability value?

And the Armour rating value(0,1,2) refers to the protection to the pilot?

Its my understanding that durability has to do with A/C strength and whether or not it survives an attack. Armor has to do with pilot survivorability. I could be wrong though not exactly privy to the code.[:)]

Survivability of a pilot is not based on the aircraft armor rating.


See, I stand corrected. Thanks Alfred.
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Rusty1961
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RE: AC armor questoin?

Post by Rusty1961 »

I'm confused. We have two attributes to determine if a plane is shot-down or damaged; Armor AND durability?

Why bother having AC when you have durability? Are there two die-rolls to be made when checking plane status?

If a B17 has a high durability, why bother giving it a Armor rating?
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RE: AC armor questoin?

Post by Buckrock »

Regardless of it already having a very high DUR value, giving an aircraft like the B-17 an ARM = 1 can better represent the difficulties lighter weapons had in doing meaningful damage to better protected aircraft and can do so without compromising the effectiveness of those heavier weapons that could "penetrate" such protection. If the ARM rating wasn't in the game, a burst from a battery of something like three rifle-calibre MGs could in theory do the same damage (that is, "hits" inflicted on DUR) to a B-17 as a battery of two 12.7s could. Historically, the Japanese found their lighter 7.7 MGs could put lots of holes in a B-17 but struggle to inflict real damage to the critical parts of the aircraft (which naturally had better protection). The use of the ARM value in the game probably does a good job of representing this without the need to define "protected" areas of an aircraft, etc.
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RE: AC armor questoin?

Post by GetAssista »

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961
I'm confused. We have two attributes to determine if a plane is shot-down or damaged; Armor AND durability?

Why bother having AC when you have durability? Are there two die-rolls to be made when checking plane status?

If a B17 has a high durability, why bother giving it a Armor rating?
Durability (~amount of damage that can be absorbed until failure) and armor (~reduction of incoming damage, depending on the weapon used) are different things. It is just like hitpoints and armor class in your usual role-playing medieval game.
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