A storm to stop! PetrOs (A) vs Pentakomo (J) (No Pentakomo please)

[821Bobo]

Would the ones in the shipyard not get hits?

They would, but won't sink.

[PetrOs]

Aha, thats a good idea. Even if they are bombed to 99/99/99/99?

Hopefully would do better then the USS Erie PG-50 in real life... turned turtle in the port during repairs...

[tarkalak]

Ships sink if their float or eng damage goes beyond 99. It doesn't matter if they are in the shipyard or not when that happens. However the shipyard might fix some of the damage between attacks and help the ship not get sunk.

If your ship has any fires they will be kicked out of the shipyard.

How does a ship "sink" in drydock?

I assume that the ship simply incurred so much structural damage that it is not battleworthy any more. One of the US battleships in real life suffered a magazine explosion at Pearl Harbor and they decided that it won't be fit for sailing again, even if they repair it. It actually sank "for real" in 1946 while being towed to the scrappers.

[821Bobo]

I've looked around the forum and it seems I was wrong. Yes, ships in drydock can be sunk(just never happened to me). But still have better chance to survive in drydock if IJN decides for multiple attacks.

[PetrOs]

Started to plan my turn yesterday. Quite a lot of damage at PH, but not much elsewhere.
At PH, I made a myriad of small task forces and set them to run away in all directions. Those who cant are placed to the shipyard.
I did the same for Philippine shipping - all ships set to run away except a few. Nearly all in one ship task forces to make it too much targets to sink. Some are sprinting at full speed to batavia, both north and south of Borneo, many are running for darwin by different pathes, and many are going around Phillipines or between the islands and aim for midway or Adak. To clear the danger zone, many use full speed. They would be turned down to mission speed in a few turns. The few units which are free HQ are being loaded on the transports..

I decided for a "gamey" gambit at Hong Kong. I made each AK an individual TF in Amphib mode, and started loading the garrison. Each unit is split between at least 3 ships, and they would also load supply. The destination is the french port near Tainan island, just to the west of HK. From there, the guys would march towards Burma. His troops are shown to march AWAY from HK, so maybe the transports can return and pick more supplies there later.

Most valuable ships in DEI sent towards Perth, the rest

I gather all the units in Singers, to reform the divisions, then all items I could switch would go to Burma, once more by single ship TFs. Usually Netties are too reluctant to go for a lone merchantman.

In Burma, I decided to retreat to the Burma Road, just leaving some tiny batallions to guard Rangoon and Moulmein.

B17th from Davao flew over to China, I am going to give them a chance to night bomb the IJN airfields.

The rest is to be planned yet

[bradfordkay]

"One of the US battleships in real life suffered a magazine explosion at Pearl Harbor and they decided that it won't be fit for sailing again, even if they repair it. It actually sank "for real" in 1946 while being towed to the scrappers. "

The battleship which suffered the magazine explosion was the Arizona, whose hulk still lies in the mud at Pearl Harbor as a war grave/national monument. The Oklahoma capsized due to multiple torpedo hits and it was decided that she was too heavily damaged to be repaired. It was that ship that sank in a storm in 1947 while being towed to California for scrapping.

[PetrOs]

I just sent my turn to Alex, took me a while to do it - had to go for one day business trip to CBI war theatre/Trivandrum on friday...

[PetrOs]

After about 40 mins, I get the combatreport.txt and the replay, any time a day. I had no chance to see the replay yet, but the text looks to be very good for me, after so bad a first turn.

After some landing support at Kota Bharu, I first had some bad luck, a few TFs ran into mines at Bataan. Probably his sub.
PT-35, Mine hits 1, heavy damage
PT-32, Mine hits 1, heavy damage
PG Isabel, Mine hits 1, heavy damage
PG Asheville, Mine hits 1, heavy damage
Of course, the minesweepers came only later, and cleaned the mines.

Some IJN sub attacks on the map, near Lahaina, near Tanjoengpinang, and nar Hilo. At first, nothing hit. Some ASW action also went without results.

xAKL Kanlaon II was sunk by Myoko, Haguro, Nachi and 6 DDs near Dinagat, in Surigao Straights.

Then, one torpedo struck CL Raleigh near Hilo. I dont know if she sunk, but maybe she could at least disperse there.

Another disaster to expect then happened, and it was the finishing of damaged POW by Kongo and Haruna with 4 DDs.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Singapore at 51,84, Range 12,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
Walrus II: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Haruna
DD Akatsuki
DD Hibiki
DD Shikinami, Shell hits 1
DD Ayanami

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 17, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Express, Shell hits 1

An xAK went down due to Sub action near Hilo:

Submarine attack near Hilo at 184,110

Japanese Ships
SS I-19

Allied Ships
xAK Hoegh Merchant, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

A tanker was struck near Palembang
Submarine attack near Palembang at 49,90

Japanese Ships
SS I-121

Allied Ships
TK Semiramis, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

TK Semiramis is sighted by SS I-121
SS I-121 launches 4 torpedoes

and another xAKL killed by the same surface group as before:


Day Time Surface Combat, near Cagayan at 80,88, Range 19,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Myoko
CA Haguro
CA Nachi
DD Kuroshio
DD Oyashio
DD Hatsukaze
DD Natsushio
DD Hayashio
DD Amatsukaze

Allied Ships
xAKL Magallanes, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk


Then some great news - my PT boats struck his invasion convoy at Laoag.
Day Time Surface Combat, near Laoag at 81,72, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAK Matsukawa Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Hokuan Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Takaoka Maru
xAK Atlas Maru
PB Suyozai Maru
PB Toko Maru #4

Allied Ships
PT-41, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT Q-111
PT Q-112
PT Q-113

Japanese ground losses:
1046 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 129 destroyed, 49 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 64 (64 destroyed, 0 disabled)

A few other MTBs were however sunk by the cover force later:
Day Time Surface Combat, near Laoag at 78,69, Range 20,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Naka
DD Natsugumo
DD Minegumo
DD Asagumo
DD Murasame
DD Harusame
DD Yudachi
DD Samidare

Allied Ships
MTB 7
MTB 8, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
MTB 9, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
MTB 10, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
MTB 11, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
MTB 12
MTB 26
MTB 27, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

A few contacts were done by evacuees which went over the northern end of Luzon. I fear he will try to catch them, but maybe not - they are running at flank speed towards Adak or Midway. AS Canopus and AM Lark are running individually there and contacted some convoys for no action.


Another small xAP was hit:


Submarine attack near Palembang at 49,90

Japanese Ships
SS I-121

Allied Ships
xAP Kedah, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage


I want to evac some guys from Singers, so left some xAKs in port. 40 Nells come, with 43 buffalos on cap. And NO FIGHT! What the hell? Were they too high at 30000? I was sure they would dive and hit.... I would probably layer the cap to 30k-20k-10k squadrons. 2 xAKs were hit by 1 bomb each.

Morning Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 40

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 43

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 1 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
xAK Silverbeech, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAK Demodocus, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

Some air attacks in China against my evacuees running to the mountains, and some my air attacks by Catalinas with torps and P-26As and Seagulls in strafe/low naval went with little result.

At Manila, some CAP action happened, with 3 Zero vs 7 Warhawks lost in first round, and 0-7 in second round. I would withdraw the Warhawks - no sense to loose them vs much more experienced enemy.

He attacked once more at PH.
First, a sweep by 18 Zeros, quite indecisive:
Afternoon Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 31,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18

Allied aircraft
P-26A x 1
P-36A Mohawk x 18
P-40B Warhawk x 31
F4F-3 Wildcat x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-36A Mohawk: 1 destroyed

Afternoon Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 113 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 48 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36
B5N2 Kate x 103
D3A1 Val x 66

Allied aircraft
P-26A x 1
P-36A Mohawk x 12
P-40B Warhawk x 22
F4F-3 Wildcat x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged
D3A1 Val: 2 destroyed, 12 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-26A: 1 destroyed
P-36A Mohawk: 2 destroyed
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 3, heavy damage

Repair Shipyard hits 1
Port hits 5

It is probably not that bad, I hope the big boys dont get ejected from the shipyard.

Then, a pair of sweeps came to Singers:

Afternoon Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 38

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 1 destroyed


and
Afternoon Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 26

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 30000 feet *

It would be interested to see his Oplosses, they are usually high on Zeros.

Some ground bombing in Malaya followed, and some ineffective air attacks on his TFs by my boys, Cats with Torps and B-10s.

And then finally some effective attacks:


Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Siquijor at 78,87

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Allied aircraft
PBY-4 Catalina x 4

Allied aircraft losses
PBY-4 Catalina: 3 damaged
PBY-4 Catalina: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CA Myoko, Torpedo hits 1

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Laoag at 81,72

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
SOC-1 Seagull x 4

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAK Takaoka Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x SOC-1 Seagull bombing from 1000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 100 lb GP Bomb

A dutch sub added a bit more damage to him:
Sub attack near Singora at 51,72

Japanese Ships
xAK Nako Maru, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
AK Kyushu Maru
xAK Kyokko Maru
xAK Kashii Maru
DMS W-6
DMS W-5

Allied Ships
SS KXVII

His sub added some damage on my so rare AD...
Sub attack near Hilo at 183,111

Japanese Ships
SS I-1

Allied Ships
AD Whitney, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AM Bobolink

He ejected chinese at Pengpu and took Kota Bharu, Laoag, Vigan and Makin then.

In total, better then I expected. Allied pilots suck, but sometimes do ok. Some good hits on his ships, and in long term it is going to pay out. Most of my runaways from Manila are still alive, and no contact made to china resupply xAKLs from Philippines or Hong Kong to Kwangchowan troop ferry. If those good units from Hong Kong and some 40-50k supplies make it out to China, it would be fantastic bonus for medium term. A few dozen smaller xAK and xAKLs are running for all 3 available chinese ports and then to Midway or Adak, in 1 ship TFs. Some would be lost, but its about 100k supplies on board in total.... Vital for China.

I started moving some free units from USA to the theatre. 8th Marine Reg is on its way to Suva, and an infantry regiment is moving to Noumea. Each is accompanied by at least one base force, and some Arty and construction units. I decided to place the 3 Aircobra and 3 Marauder groups from Eastern USA to CBI, using "Transfer to Cape Town". I am going to evac Burma, so the 1st Burma Div. is going to reunite and then move out. Reinforcements are redirected to either India, or Ceylon. With his agressive reputation, I fear an early strike to Ceylon alot.

I am regrouping many warships. All intact cruisers and new destroyers from PH go to Suva. NZ, Australian, French and US ships in South are meeting at Lunga. As long as his KB is away, I am going to raid some convoys there.

Just for fun, I renamed all ships called "Xxx II" in the pipeline to appropriate Confederate names
So we will see CVs Jefferson Davis, Pierre Beauregard and Robert Lee, and cruisers like Merrimac in 43.

[Yaab]

- Here is CV Jackson standing like a stone wall!
(the sound of incoming Jap dive bombers)

[PetrOs]

That name would imply the armored deck, but you cant rename Brits or Midway class

I actually renamed one to Stonewall Jackson

[PetrOs]

While my opponent makes his turn, I am planning the training for the allied pilots.
I am going to make it 1 squadron diff tasks method.
For the USAAF the west coast squads will be training on the pattern of "Train Escort 20k to Air 70, Train Strafe to Def 70, graduate". Then, the CAP 100% groups in backwater area would take over, for example CAP for Fiji, Hawaii, Aleutians, etc. For brits, NZ, australians and others - same squad would rotate to CAP when the basics is done.

For LBs, I will go for Ground Bombing skill only for all, with about 25% being trained also in low naval.

For USN guys - I am going to train the DBs in naval bomb only, and TBs in NavT/LowN only. Fighters would be same as army. I am going to use those neat kingfisher groups for additional fighter training - they can fly CAP
USMC bombers would go also to a ground/low training for DB/TB. USMC 2E would be skip bombing only. USMC 4E would be ASW only resource.

British and commonwealth bomber boys would only train ground bombing to 80%, and remaining 20% ASW.

Patrols would be Nav Search, and if reasonable also ASW and primary attack (LowN/NavT)

Recons are recon only.

[PetrOs]

And yes, I have one more question

I am planning the way to go on grand strategy.... I have envisaged 4 ways where I could put the entire weight of my power projection by early 43

Most commonly seen is the historical SoWestPac way, Solomons and jumping up.

Also often is the SoPac, Fiji/Samoa->Tabituea, then Ocean/Nauru, and then upwards.

Another way is CentPac, and which I have successfully implemented against AI, is the one of Wake->Marcus->Guam/Saipan->Philippines.

Another way is the Perth->DEI strike, aiming for his oil. Never tried this way...

Burma -> Singers -> Saigon -> China axis also worked vs AI but probably too slow vs. human.

And the last way I seem never to have seen as a primary axis - Aleutians->Kuriles->Hokkaido, then bomb the hell out of his industry. Did anyone ever tried this way? Do you think it is a worthwile way to go?

Would you regularily concentrate on 2-3 directions or go with just one?

I have some temptation to try DEI landing on one side, and NorPac on other side, just to keep it different...

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: PetrOs
Would you regularily concentrate on 2-3 directions or go with just one?

You have to do different directions or at least seriously feint, else Japan will concentrate all defences against your main thrust and it won't be pretty.

Kuriles were done a lot, sometimes in a spectacular fashion. Canoerebel(A) is doing it right now in the AAR section against obvert(J). Initial invasion depends a lot on being unpredictable, because of the distances involved. Unless done in late 44 or 45 where Death Star can push through

[Anachro]

Do the most unexpected. Go right for Tokyo! [:D]

[PetrOs]

I actually done it once vs AI, just for fun. Worked! It were 15 divisions landed at once in jan 1943...

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: PetrOs
I actually done it once vs AI, just for fun. Worked! It were 15 divisions landed at once in jan 1943...

AI cannot be a point of reference cause it's hapless and does not react strategically to TFs spotted or invasions happening. Human player will swing whole KB/Kaigun and most of airgroups your way the moment he spots your slow amphibious TFs on the Kuriles horizon, and in 5 turns your transports will be looking into massed air raids and DD run-ins.
However, there are AARs out there where Allies went in with surprise massive Kuriles invasion turning the game upside down. E.g. tm.asp?m=2761796, the one I referred to as "spectacular fashion", starting around page 123

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: PetrOs

While my opponent makes his turn, I am planning the training for the allied pilots.
I am going to make it 1 squadron diff tasks method.
For the USAAF the west coast squads will be training on the pattern of "Train Escort 20k to Air 70, Train Strafe to Def 70, graduate". Then, the CAP 100% groups in backwater area would take over, for example CAP for Fiji, Hawaii, Aleutians, etc. For brits, NZ, australians and others - same squad would rotate to CAP when the basics is done.

For LBs, I will go for Ground Bombing skill only for all, with about 25% being trained also in low naval.

For USN guys - I am going to train the DBs in naval bomb only, and TBs in NavT/LowN only. Fighters would be same as army. I am going to use those neat kingfisher groups for additional fighter training - they can fly CAP
USMC bombers would go also to a ground/low training for DB/TB. USMC 2E would be skip bombing only. USMC 4E would be ASW only resource.

British and commonwealth bomber boys would only train ground bombing to 80%, and remaining 20% ASW.

Patrols would be Nav Search, and if reasonable also ASW and primary attack (LowN/NavT)

Recons are recon only.

ASW is a different mission and skill than Nav B/Low Nav/NavS. The latter three do not help at all with ASW attacks, although NavS will help spot subs and (rarely) might even attack them. Your carriers will need dedicated air ASW patrols. Use your TBs at 20% and 2000 feet for that while the DBs do higher naval search.

Note that the actual patrol zone for ASW air is half the range you set for your aircraft i.e. a range of four set will only do ASW patrol for two hexes distance from your TF. This is because ASW is a much more intensive search than NavS, because subs are harder to spot and attack.

I train my TBs up to 40 in ASW before setting out and continue training a few at a time (10 to 20%) while in safe waters during transits. Subs are the biggest threat to major warships until you get into enemy air range.

[PetrOs]

AI Games cant be taken as a master of course. Humans react differently. I would see where he would be going to strike, and try to outflank him. I would love to blast DEI and North as my assault axes, but I am flexible.

ASW - I usually have a dedicated ASW trained squadron in the CVTF, often mounted on a smaller carrier. Sometimes its Hermes or one of the fleet brits. On march I often put all DBs and TBs on ASW 70% - even if not trained, they would land hits due to saturation, and also scare the hell out of subs. If there are subs to strike, they are also all learning well. All floatplanes from battleships and cruisers in escort are also on ASW mission.

I sent in the next turn, lets see whats going to happen. Some of the HK evac boats are spotted, some not. I hope he would hunt them to the south.... Most ran away too early, with troops but little supply, I forgot so set them to direct/coastal/absolute.... Now they are set so, are to unload and then go back to HK for supply extraction.

Many of the Philippine evacuees which were running flank speed are out of imminent danger, both on north borneo coast and on midway direction. Smaller ships dispersed at dot bases to wait the enemy cruisers to go away and then slip towards safety on midway direction.

[PetrOs]

We had 2 turns since the last update, and it is not going too well.
On the turn 3, the first combat was surprising, as my PT boats attacked his carriers. They launched torps from 5000 yards against twice Hiryu, and Kaga but unluckily missed. One PT boat was lost, but he was probably scared. His CVs moved to the southeast of Hilo that turn.

He caught my HK Evac. Only 3 ships came through, rest caught by a 5x TB task force, a massacre. A pair more were killed by bombers from Canton on the day. Some troops and supply unloaded however.

He also chased survivors from Manila, killing some, but many are through.

PT Boats from Manila struck at his SCTF, sinking DD Hatakaze, but several other attacks went wrong, and all british, all philippine, and all but 3 american PTs are gone.

I-2 sunk the SS Tautog, which was limping to hide at dot base after pearl harbour damage

AG Antares was sunk b I-169 and I-170 near Kona.

KXII sunk AK Kinka Maru which is a large transport at Patani, and S-38 sunk xAK Matsukawa Maru

He landed in Sorong on the NG northwest tip, apparently using CM Itsukishima as fast transport. Went wrong for him, as my flying dutchmen came from Ambon and sunk her - 4 bomb hits from 1000ft. Not trained, but still worked.

Code: Select all

Morning Air attack on TF, near Sorong at 82,107
  
 Weather in hex: Overcast
  
 Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 2,000 feet.
 Estimated time to target is 6 minutes
  
 Allied aircraft
       139WH-3 x 3
       B-339D x 2
       Do-24K-1 x 2
       Hudson I x 4
  
 No Allied losses
  
 Japanese Ships
       CM Itsukushima, Bomb hits 4,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
  
 Aircraft Attacking:
        3 x 139WH-3 bombing from 1000 feet
                Naval Attack:  1 x 300 kg SAP Bomb
        2 x Do-24K-1 bombing from 1000 feet
                Naval Attack:  4 x 300 kg SAP Bomb
        4 x Hudson I bombing from 1000 feet
                Naval Attack:  2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
  

2 Catalinas from Ambon also placed 2 bombs on her burning wreck.



Another sortie on PH, first a sweep by 8 Zeros, then 103 kates came in with 41 Zero escorts. My flyboys did not very good, they are all tired and only a few enemy were killed. BBs are getting hit, and some now at 99% system, but still in Shipyard, so gonna survive for a while I hope.

KB went to SE from Hilo probably to escape my subs or to chase slow guys running away to Palmyra. He killed Argonne, AR Medusa, PG Sacramento and AMc Cockatoo at sea.


He is striking my chinese in plains with unescorted Sallys and 1EBs, so I set some cap traps with AVG and ex-Philippines P40s for next turn.

Intense air combat over Philippines went not too good for me, I am taking the P40 flyboys out now.

[Yaab]

Did you change leaders in fighter air groups in PH? Some of the starting leaders have very low AIR skill.