9PM Team Game
Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21
- HardLuckYetAgain
- Posts: 8855
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am
RE: 9PM Team Game
I will start first and say I am sorry for any item I have done to offend or upset people in general. I love this game and as much as others may not think so I love everyone that plays WITE. We are brothers (and Sisters if you are out there) in arms. I am sorry.
Now lets see Leningrad and Moscow fall in 41!!!!
Now lets see Leningrad and Moscow fall in 41!!!!
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
- HardLuckYetAgain
- Posts: 8855
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am
RE: 9PM Team Game
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Now lets see Leningrad and Moscow fall in 41!!!!
DOH! My pro German side coming out.....
I mean lets see Leningrad and Moscow not fall in 41!!!!
You get my meaning. Lets see a great game, looking forward to the AAR
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
RE: 9PM Team Game
I agree we should get on. I have spent hundreds of hours trying to get people who have not got along in a long while to reconciled. I have looked for words and construction that left no one humiliated and no one having to say sorry - just a modus vivendi. I even dreamed of getting this as a place for reconciliation. I failed.
There is a hard reality that this is a leisure activity that people have to volunteer to play. You cannot force people to play with each other if they do not want to. Which is why I find this idea of exclusion bizarre. What are you going to do? Water board people who do not want to play with you? This is the second time we have had to fork and it is the only solution for some game to occur. The only person who has ever been excluded was in the 2by3+ team game when the staff had to have words with someone for something very extreme.
Team games are not the property of anyone. You can go and start your own. But it does take a lot of time and hard work to make them work - which is why they are not done by others. I do think it is leeching to take the time others have put into making things work and abuse them.
Even more bizarre is when someone tries to take over one side and turn it into a them versus us. I have seen this mistake repeatedly. Do they not know we play on the same side in other team games?
I have encouraged two new people who stepped forward to take the CoS position and done everything to make it as good as possible for them. I have gone from offering to be a Soviet CoS, to not taking any turns just managing one side, to not having any role, to going to Axis to fill vacancies, which I did not have an interest in, and back again. I did that with the best of heart - which is why I am truly amazed and shocked at what was written about me above. That is abuse.
I spent literally hundreds of hours in the 8MP team game when one person was found to be looking in another AAR that was supposed to be excluded from them to find some solution that both sides could agree on. And once agreed countless time doing all the screenshots and whatever that was asked for in return. But there was never once direct abuse of anyone which is why we could work out something. I have spent days checking other things I have been asked and to provide information as comfort to another side for all sorts of reasons. It is hard work.
At the end of the day when you are directly abusing someone else you have to get real. There is not going to be any game or discussion about rules broken or anything else. It is over.
I spent a long time encouraging one person in one team game, they resigned when it was going hostile. I persuaded them to come back again and the same happened again here. What takes months to builds others will happily destroy in minutes. There are many new people on the game channel now who have no idea about anything here. They are now talking about a game in a good place again. If we went back they would not be there. Thankfully they have not been put off by what was here. But clearly many have been.
If you think team games are good thing, then support them. Keep your private disgreements private. But do not destroy the good work of others and the fun they provide.
There is a hard reality that this is a leisure activity that people have to volunteer to play. You cannot force people to play with each other if they do not want to. Which is why I find this idea of exclusion bizarre. What are you going to do? Water board people who do not want to play with you? This is the second time we have had to fork and it is the only solution for some game to occur. The only person who has ever been excluded was in the 2by3+ team game when the staff had to have words with someone for something very extreme.
Team games are not the property of anyone. You can go and start your own. But it does take a lot of time and hard work to make them work - which is why they are not done by others. I do think it is leeching to take the time others have put into making things work and abuse them.
Even more bizarre is when someone tries to take over one side and turn it into a them versus us. I have seen this mistake repeatedly. Do they not know we play on the same side in other team games?
I have encouraged two new people who stepped forward to take the CoS position and done everything to make it as good as possible for them. I have gone from offering to be a Soviet CoS, to not taking any turns just managing one side, to not having any role, to going to Axis to fill vacancies, which I did not have an interest in, and back again. I did that with the best of heart - which is why I am truly amazed and shocked at what was written about me above. That is abuse.
I spent literally hundreds of hours in the 8MP team game when one person was found to be looking in another AAR that was supposed to be excluded from them to find some solution that both sides could agree on. And once agreed countless time doing all the screenshots and whatever that was asked for in return. But there was never once direct abuse of anyone which is why we could work out something. I have spent days checking other things I have been asked and to provide information as comfort to another side for all sorts of reasons. It is hard work.
At the end of the day when you are directly abusing someone else you have to get real. There is not going to be any game or discussion about rules broken or anything else. It is over.
I spent a long time encouraging one person in one team game, they resigned when it was going hostile. I persuaded them to come back again and the same happened again here. What takes months to builds others will happily destroy in minutes. There are many new people on the game channel now who have no idea about anything here. They are now talking about a game in a good place again. If we went back they would not be there. Thankfully they have not been put off by what was here. But clearly many have been.
If you think team games are good thing, then support them. Keep your private disgreements private. But do not destroy the good work of others and the fun they provide.
Wargamers Discord https://discord.gg/U6DcDxT
- HardLuckYetAgain
- Posts: 8855
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am
RE: 9PM Team Game
ORIGINAL: Telemecus
If you think team games are good thing, then support them. Keep your private disgreements private. But do not destroy the good work of others and the fun they provide.
I am reading this and you are saying the responsibility of destroying the two team games is my fault. That is total BS. This is exactly what others have said about you in numerous emails to me about shifting blame. I was hoping beyond hope those emails were wrong but seems to be they are proving true.
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
RE: 9PM Team Game
No I am not saying you have destroyed any team game?ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
ORIGINAL: Telemecus
If you think team games are good thing, then support them. Keep your private disgreements private. But do not destroy the good work of others and the fun they provide.
I am reading this and you are saying the responsibility of destroying the two team games is my fault. That is total BS. This is exactly what others have said about you in numerous emails to me about shifting blame. I was hoping beyond hope those emails were wrong but seems to be they are proving true.
Wargamers Discord https://discord.gg/U6DcDxT
- HardLuckYetAgain
- Posts: 8855
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am
RE: 9PM Team Game
ORIGINAL: Telemecus
No I am not saying you have destroyed any team game?ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
ORIGINAL: Telemecus
If you think team games are good thing, then support them. Keep your private disgreements private. But do not destroy the good work of others and the fun they provide.
I am reading this and you are saying the responsibility of destroying the two team games is my fault. That is total BS. This is exactly what others have said about you in numerous emails to me about shifting blame. I was hoping beyond hope those emails were wrong but seems to be they are proving true.
Then I interpreted it wrong then.
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
RE: 9PM Team Game
if there are emails about me - then publish them here?ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
ORIGINAL: Telemecus
No I am not saying you have destroyed any team game?ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
I am reading this and you are saying the responsibility of destroying the two team games is my fault. That is total BS. This is exactly what others have said about you in numerous emails to me about shifting blame. I was hoping beyond hope those emails were wrong but seems to be they are proving true.
Then I interpreted it wrong then.
Wargamers Discord https://discord.gg/U6DcDxT
- HardLuckYetAgain
- Posts: 8855
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am
RE: 9PM Team Game
ORIGINAL: Telemecus
if there are emails about me - then publish them here?ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
ORIGINAL: Telemecus
No I am not saying you have destroyed any team game?
Then I interpreted it wrong then.
I will not.
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
- HardLuckYetAgain
- Posts: 8855
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26 am
RE: 9PM Team Game
I really wish you Telemecus and everyone else all the best & really hope everyone comes together on this game and others you are running. You have put a great deal into them. As such I am removing myself from posting on this thread for awhile (unless someone directly references me).
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
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- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:01 pm
RE: 9PM Team Game
First of all I'd echo what others have said about the positives that come out of these games - especially for new players who are dipping their toes into human v human games. I'd also acknowledge the time and effort that Telemecus in particular has put in to get them up and started and up until recently running smoothly.
My suggestion would be that with team games you probably need to appoint an agreed third party to act as an intermediary or referee. In a 1v1 game everything is simple - if the trust has broken down (whether it be in terms of differing views on what is "gamey" or an exploit or in more extreme cases if there is a suspicion of reloading etc) you just drop the game and move on to another game. But with a team game where there are at least 8 individuals involved you have twin problems of a) there being more possibilities for interpersonal conflicts/suspicion and b) more investment riding on the game from other team members who may be not have had anything to do with breakdowns in relations between others and just want to get on with the game. With that in mind it would seem sensible to have a trusted third party who can arbitrate on disputes in game and who can act as a 'shock absorber' when feelings are running high and people are at risk of crossing the line in their communications with each other and making mountains out of molehills as has been seen recently.
Just my 2c - I fully accept that I am looking at this from the outside and may well not be aware of everything that has gone on 'behind the scenes'.
My suggestion would be that with team games you probably need to appoint an agreed third party to act as an intermediary or referee. In a 1v1 game everything is simple - if the trust has broken down (whether it be in terms of differing views on what is "gamey" or an exploit or in more extreme cases if there is a suspicion of reloading etc) you just drop the game and move on to another game. But with a team game where there are at least 8 individuals involved you have twin problems of a) there being more possibilities for interpersonal conflicts/suspicion and b) more investment riding on the game from other team members who may be not have had anything to do with breakdowns in relations between others and just want to get on with the game. With that in mind it would seem sensible to have a trusted third party who can arbitrate on disputes in game and who can act as a 'shock absorber' when feelings are running high and people are at risk of crossing the line in their communications with each other and making mountains out of molehills as has been seen recently.
Just my 2c - I fully accept that I am looking at this from the outside and may well not be aware of everything that has gone on 'behind the scenes'.
RE: 9PM Team Game
ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive
My suggestion would be that with team games you probably need to appoint an agreed third party to act as an intermediary or referee.
It is a good idea. I think also EwaldvonKleist also suggested a standing "supreme court" of veteran players (they may correct me if I got the idea wrong) which is for something a little different but could be adopted for the same function.
We have even had one volunteer and one attempt to do it for the 8MP team game - see tm.asp?m=4251261
Ironically then we had someone who did want to do it, but no player to replace them in the game. More normally though you would get no one for a thankless task! Or at least you would have to think of rewards or compensations for doing the role - perhaps something minor like getting a special icon with your name in forums or some honour of that kind? Some thought would have to go into why you would make it worthwhile for someone to do it at least.
In the 2by3+ team game we actually have someone who has access to and the password of both sides. They only have it for statistical research. But at least the format of such neutral positions has been established.
Wargamers Discord https://discord.gg/U6DcDxT
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RE: 9PM Team Game
To get back to the start point after this short, yet stormy affair - the Soviet team is assembled and ready to face anyone on the field of battle. If there is someone who would like to play a team game on the axis side, please post here or PM me There are only two more people needed in the axis team to get the game started, but axis team can accommodate even more if there are people interested