How to get the AI to budge - stuck in the Shortlands

[rsallen64]

I am playing my first GC as the Allies against the AI. It's June 1942 and so far I am satisfied with my progress. No big mistakes, no carriers lost, etc. I didn't do a full Sir Robin, and held out in parts of the PI until April. Most of the DEI is gone, but the major bases are still in my hands but doomed to fall soon. I retain PM.

My problem is this: for about 2 months now the KB has been sitting still in the Shortlands. It first sortied down the east coast of Oz and did some damage, but then went back to the Shortlands and has been sitting there for two months and won't move. I've sent subs in, tried some LBA, everything. I know not to get close with my CVs, because I will get hammered, but I would like to move it out so I can invade into the lower Solomons in a month or so. I don't want to rush things, but I don't understand what the AI is doing? I've raided elsewhere to try and draw it off, to no avail. Is it stuck due to a script not firing?

Any suggestions?

[MakeeLearn]

Is it defending?! Waiting for your CVs.

I know not to get close with my CVs, because I will get hammered

That may be it's orders.

[btd64]

Ha, I thought it said "stuck in the Shorthairs"....GP

[Nami Koshino]

In the past I've often seen the AI post ships in the same locations for weeks and months. Stuck like glue they were, until I eventually succumbed to the temptation to send something in and sink them. However, they were usually merchant ships, not the KB.

[rsallen64]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn


Is it defending?! Waiting for your CVs.

I know not to get close with my CVs, because I will get hammered

That may be it's orders.

I don't think it's defending anything in particular, as my nearest base is PM, and it hasn't moved any ships to attack any of my SCTFs that have been ranging across the Coral Sea area sinking the AI convoys, etc.

I do know better at this stage, what with the greater range of the KB's aircraft and the better quality of their crew, to attack with my own CVs, so I think that Nami Koshino's post is probably correct: it's stuck for some reason, and I have to try and pry it loose. I do know it's the KB, because I have scouted it heavily with aircraft, and have seen scores of carrier aircraft come out when I've tried to come close to the Shortlands with any ships. But the ships themselves have not moved.

[JeffroK]

Open the game head to head and play a turn as the IJA and re-route KB.

[GetAssista]

Run in with DD TF (or PTs) for a surface engagement. Chances are KB will retire for ammo resupply afterward

[Macclan5]

ORIGINAL: rsallen64

My problem is this: for about 2 months now the KB has been sitting still in the Shortlands. It first sortied down the east coast of Oz and did some damage, but then went back to the Shortlands and has been sitting there for two months and won't move.

1) Are you certain its carriers. How good is your spotting ? I mean do you have "multiple Catalina squadrons" with high NAV search skill actually spotting them in 1942 in that area ?? The spotting is not perfect and in 1942 you may be spotting BB / xAKs identified as carriers but they are not.

Rule 1 : Search / recon - search / recon and when you are 100% certain - search / recon some more.


2) Sub patrols - are DD and or PB at Shortland's reacting ? Are you sending Subs into ports specifically ? Are you just cruising a hex away. Sub spotting in 1942 a hex away is NOT an effective spotting technique.

3) What base do you hold nearby ? Luganville ? Do you have Dive Bombers, Bombers and Lightning escorts that can sortee that far? You indicate Bombers but what type of bombers - where ?

Flying Fortress Bombers on Naval Attack 20K altitude with Pilot skills in the low 30's flying from PM or Townsville will not get the job done. They wont even spot correctly.

Have you tried Port Attack at 10K for example?

4) Why not attack from <insert here>......i.e. Luganville ?

Why not take Nimitz's advice / orders that you are to engage being governed by the principal that you think you can inflict more damage to the IJN than you sustain ? Balance of risk.

If you have 4 American Carriers (i.e. Lexington / Saratoga / Enterprise / Yorktown) available and you have F4Fs onboard - or at least F4F3s - and you load up some Marine squadrons to supplement their air groups (say some devastators / SBD / Even Buffalo's- give kick at the can

You might be surprised and find out it is only 3 IJN carriers one of which is a CVE and that you have already 'thinned' their airgroups.

5) Yes the AI will park Carrier TFs from time to time depending upon the script running - its achievements vs the script - and what you are holding verses what it desires.

Over 3.5 complete games I have witnessed this first hand.

Hollandia, Rabul, Truk, Borneo, Singapore, Palemabang, Sorebja variously depending upon where in game I was vs the AI

[brian800000]

I'm worried that this has happened in my game, though it has only been for 3 or 4 turns...

I'm running in some subs with mines to blast them out. No idea if this will work.

[Macclan5]

ORIGINAL: brian800000

I'm worried that this has happened in my game, though it has only been for 3 or 4 turns...

I'm running in some subs with mines to blast them out. No idea if this will work.

See my post above.. in addition to the other advice.

What is your best nearest base? Luganville ?

Run some PTB squadrons into the base see what you see.

Above all - you both fail to mention : Search / Recon - Search / Recon and then when you are 100% certain - Search / Recon a little more.

I think you both may be surprised to discover you do not actually know what is there.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: brian800000

I'm worried that this has happened in my game, though it has only been for 3 or 4 turns...

I'm running in some subs with mines to blast them out. No idea if this will work.

Dropping mines there is not a bad idea, but if they are parked they will not hit any mines until they move, and even that is only "maybe". If any other ships are going to Shortlands they are more likely to find the minefield. Once found, the minefield will be much less effective.

[rsallen64]

Good suggestions to all of the above, and here is what I have done over multiple turns in the past month or so:

1. I have run multiple recon/search runs with Catalinas from both Luganville and Efate, as well as PM. I have also run Lightning recon from Luganville over this area.
2. I sent in multiple sub patrols directly into the base, some of which took heavy damage, one of which was sunk.
3. I sent SCTFs to bombard Tulagi/Guadalcanal and attack Japanese cargo/troopship convoys and SCTFs in the area, which resulted in large formations of Carrier based air groups responding and pummeling the SCTFs that they could find.
4. I simultaneously used recon/search on Rabaul (Catalinas for recon), and well as LBA (Fortresses, Mitchells) to bomb Rabaul from PM, to hit the airfields and ports there, from altitudes of 15000 down to 5000, to make sure the airfields and port facilities were damaged as well as any ships, and to make sure the planes I saw attacking my SCTFs near the lower Solomons were not coming from Rabaul. Based on the recon and those results, they weren't.
5. I did run some sub mining missions into the Shortlands, with mixed results.
6. I have not seen ANY Japanese carrier forces appear anywhere during the entire time this force has been parked, nor have I received any intel about Carrier groups either. My intel tells me I have sunk about 1 CV and 2-3 CVEs so far, but I am taking that with a grain of salt, as usual. But the absence of any activity elsewhere is also another convincing piece of the puzzle.

I do have all my carriers available and they could be in the area in a relatively short time frame, but because I have seen large numbers of carrier based air coming out of the area, I am reluctant to engage because the cost benefit analysis tells me the risk is too high. When this same force came down the east coast of Oz, it was quite strong and did some damage, and I didn't have anything to stand in it's way, so I don't think it's air groups are reduced by much.

[brian800000]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Dropping mines there is not a bad idea, but if they are parked they will not hit any mines until they move, and even that is only "maybe". If any other ships are going to Shortlands they are more likely to find the minefield. Once found, the minefield will be much less effective.

interesting--I thought they would just from sailing back and forth in the hex.

They are parked in my base. I guess another idea would be to keep cycling in fighters to my base to wear out their CAP, and then move in with my fleet for a carrier battle featuring a fighter-less KB.


edit--also very possible the kb isn't stuck at all and just kicking my ass from one spot for a few turns.

[brian800000]

So serious question--how often does the AI KB get "stuck" like this?

I'm asking because the AI KB hasn't moved from Makassar for probably a week. It is a reasonably strong offensive position there--it limits my defensive movement while I get invaded. I don't want to switch sides to get the AI unstuck if it is following a plan, but I don't want to leave it there if it is stuck either.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: brian800000

So serious question--how often does the AI KB get "stuck" like this?

I'm asking because the AI KB hasn't moved from Makassar for probably a week. It is a reasonably strong offensive position there--it limits my defensive movement while I get invaded. I don't want to switch sides to get the AI unstuck if it is following a plan, but I don't want to leave it there if it is stuck either.

I don't know about KB scripts, but in stock scenario 1 the AI was sending BB Nagato and two DDs to Davao, Philippines in the first few days of the game and let it sit there 3 weeks before an invasion TF appeared and Nagato acted as surface combat cover. After the invasion was done the Nagato left with the other ships.

In subsequent games it did the same thing so I put about six subs in the hexes of the bay including Davao itself. Days would pass with nothing sighted and then a sub would get a look at Nagato and sometimes even a shot at her with torps. In one memorable game the first sub hit the BB with a torp and it stayed at Davao. A few days later another sub found it still at Davao and hit it with another torp. At the beginning of the next turn Nagato left Davao but two other subs in the bay and just outside the bay hit her with three more torps and down she went.

Yeah, it was taking advantage of the AI, but I was new to the game and wanted to know if a sub could stalk an enemy ship that was in a port hex that my side controlled. I learned it was iffy, but patience and persistence can pay off.

[Macclan5]

ORIGINAL: rsallen64

I do have all my carriers available and they could be in the area in a relatively short time frame, but because I have seen large numbers of carrier based air coming out of the area, I am reluctant to engage because the cost benefit analysis tells me the risk is too high. When this same force came down the east coast of Oz, it was quite strong and did some damage, and I didn't have anything to stand in it's way, so I don't think it's air groups are reduced by much.

ORIGINAL: brian800000

So serious question--how often does the AI KB get "stuck" like this?

I'm asking because the AI KB hasn't moved from Makassar for probably a week. It is a reasonably strong offensive position there--it limits my defensive movement while I get invaded. I don't want to switch sides to get the AI unstuck if it is following a plan, but I don't want to leave it there if it is stuck either.

So I am opining the answer is : The KB AI is not stuck [8D]

The KB AI is preventing you from executing some strategy or tactical plan you had in mind.

So either:

(1) send in your Carriers - and using the Nimitz Orders - engage in combat when you feel you will inflict superior damage upon opponents while minimizing the potential losses to your own side.... or

(2) Change strategy.

Just saying - this is not an AI issue. [8D]

This is an AI interfering with "how I want the war to go issue" [:D]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

ORIGINAL: rsallen64

I do have all my carriers available and they could be in the area in a relatively short time frame, but because I have seen large numbers of carrier based air coming out of the area, I am reluctant to engage because the cost benefit analysis tells me the risk is too high. When this same force came down the east coast of Oz, it was quite strong and did some damage, and I didn't have anything to stand in it's way, so I don't think it's air groups are reduced by much.

ORIGINAL: brian800000

So serious question--how often does the AI KB get "stuck" like this?

I'm asking because the AI KB hasn't moved from Makassar for probably a week. It is a reasonably strong offensive position there--it limits my defensive movement while I get invaded. I don't want to switch sides to get the AI unstuck if it is following a plan, but I don't want to leave it there if it is stuck either.

So I am opining the answer is : The KB AI is not stuck [8D]

The KB AI is preventing you from executing some strategy or tactical plan you had in mind.

So either:

(1) send in your Carriers - and using the Nimitz Orders - engage in combat when you feel you will inflict superior damage upon opponents while minimizing the potential losses to your own side.... or

(2) Change strategy.

Just saying - this is not an AI issue. [8D]

This is an AI interfering with "how I want the war to go issue" [:D]

My thought (which I should have put in my previous post) is that the AI has not yet launched an invasion that qualifies for KB cover, or is on a script that says it should only react if Allied CVs are detected within "x" hexes. In the former instance, KB is prepositioned in a forward position that would allow it to support invasions in NG, the Solomons, the Marshalls and even northern Oz. In the latter instance, destroying the Allied CVs is the primary goal and it is ignoring all other opportunities to have a shot at that.

But we agree it is not stuck in a technical sense.

[brian800000]

BBfanboy--that makes sense...in my game at least the position of the KB is problematic--I've lost naval access to Southern Borneo, and can't easily move warships between Sumatra/Java and N. Australia / New Guinea. It also covers some very clear invasion targets.

Obviously sitting in one place is not going to maximize the strength of the KB, but whoever wrote the script could do a lot worse (assuming it isn't stuck).

[Yaab]

Maybe those scripts are aimed to conserve KB's fuel?

[Veloz]

The KB is patrolling defensive triying you not to do your plans (when the KB found finally your plans you better change planes)

if you dont want to change invasion planes please take your 4 carriers and make a battle, if not; you will have a second KB if the war goes far and they will work together

how ta make your 4 carriers allied win agaisnt the KB; please if the weather helps you; and when japan KB strikes first can not do it because of bad weather then you strike first, please less than 3 hexes the battles then you will load 1000 pounds; your torpedoes bombers will not scored but dauntless will