WitE 2

Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 is a turn-based World War II strategy game stretching across the entire Eastern Front. Gamers can engage in an epic campaign, including division-sized battles with realistic and historical terrain, weather, orders of battle, logistics and combat results.

The critically and fan-acclaimed Eastern Front mega-game Gary Grigsby’s War in the East just got bigger and better with Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: Don to the Danube! This expansion to the award-winning War in the East comes with a wide array of later war scenarios ranging from short but intense 6 turn bouts like the Battle for Kharkov (1942) to immense 37-turn engagements taking place across multiple nations like Drama on the Danube (Summer 1944 – Spring 1945).

Moderators: Joel Billings, elmo3, Sabre21

User avatar
RedLancer
Posts: 4338
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:09 am
Location: UK

RE: WitE 2

Post by RedLancer »

ORIGINAL: Searry

I think it's absurd to think a game could be "realistic" in any way. The mountain divisions in the balkans are an obvious waste, just like Hitler pouring all his reinforcements in Tunisia when they couldn't even be supplied so the Luftwaffe transport force had to kill itself.

What sort of a gamer wants to make a choice where they kill half of their air transport fleet and still get the Italian-German African Army to surrender?

Doesn't make any sense to me.

Thank you so much for summarising the key conundrum in wargame design - the balance between constraining the Player to repeating history and allowing the flexibility of exploring what might have been. It is a truly challenging task but whilst you can please some of the players some of the time you cannot please all of them all of the time.

We do our best to strike the best balance.
John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev
Capitaine
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:00 am

RE: WitE 2

Post by Capitaine »

Hitler had many political concerns to contend with. What is apparently "right" from a military perspective isn't necessarily "right" from a political perspective, and vice versa. Many German generals who criticized some aspect of Hitler's orders weren't aware of all the considerations leading to those orders. They didn't have a full picture regarding global strategy. Many of these generals' opinions get handed down to wargamers and become dicta.

I'm not necessarily saying that your point above has no validity, but particularly with N. Africa things had become very political and some things were done on that account. And in a wargame, these political considerations are 100% suppressed.
Hghx-0
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 5:10 pm

RE: WitE 2

Post by Hghx-0 »

I wonder if the new game will have a replay system, i haven't read the whole thread yet, but i asume it had been asked already.
So what about replays for PBEM mode? Now it's being hard to follow in what sequence did enemy move, especially when when trying to track the Panzer Groups playing as the soviets.
Also would be nice to have a posibility to see enemy movement, not only attacks and air strikes.
User avatar
BigDuke66
Posts: 2035
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 10:00 am
Location: Terra

RE: WitE 2

Post by BigDuke66 »

I had asked but got no answer.
Still no replay would be a joke if 99% of all Strategy games have it.
User avatar
RedLancer
Posts: 4338
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:09 am
Location: UK

RE: WitE 2

Post by RedLancer »

There is currently no replay mode and I'm not aware of plans to add it. With the games IGOUGO system it would require a large amount of additional data to be recorded and transferred.
John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev
User avatar
BigDuke66
Posts: 2035
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 10:00 am
Location: Terra

RE: WitE 2

Post by BigDuke66 »

All that needs to be recorded are the unit movements that are visible to the player or movements in general, not sure why that would need a huge amount of data. Unit Z a moves from X to Y, done.

To dump the complicated approach of WitP was surely a benefit but along with it dumping the ability to grasp what happens in a turn is beyond my understanding. Games had that back in the 90's. Imagine WitP without the ability to follow what happens in that turn, the game would be unplayable.
If all this ever leads to one big "War in Europe" game I hope it gets finally implemented.
User avatar
RedLancer
Posts: 4338
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:09 am
Location: UK

RE: WitE 2

Post by RedLancer »

You cannot compare WitE2 with WitP which is WEGO.

I'm also not one of the coders so I can't comment on the precise detail but the data structure has to be present to record what you request even if the size is not as huge as I might imagine.
John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev
HaHaeTs
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:15 pm

RE: WitE 2

Post by HaHaeTs »

will the soviets have the same "fortress" feature for, say, Leningrad or Sevastopol?
User avatar
MrBlizzard
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:34 pm
Location: Italy

RE: WitE 2

Post by MrBlizzard »

In WITE2 there will be something to prevent the whermacht to enrole 2 millions of hiwis in the first year?
I remind my compaigns always ending with Heer stronger at the end of first harsh winter because of tons of Hiwis added without decreasing the experience of german units, as probably should be.
Thanks
Blizzard
User avatar
xhoel
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:46 pm
Location: Germany

RE: WitE 2

Post by xhoel »

Will leader rolls be changed so that players have an incentive to actually place better leaders in say Army HQs (For Germans) and Front HQs (for the Soviets)? The way rolls work right now, it is counterproductive to place Manstein anywhere higher than a Panzer Corps HQ.
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
tm.asp?m=4488465
WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator
User avatar
xhoel
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:46 pm
Location: Germany

RE: WitE 2

Post by xhoel »

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

In WITE2 there will be something to prevent the whermacht to enrole 2 millions of hiwis in the first year?
I remind my compaigns always ending with Heer stronger at the end of first harsh winter because of tons of Hiwis added without decreasing the experience of german units, as probably should be.
Thanks

Hiwis did not have combat roles so I do not see why that should affect the experience of a division.
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
tm.asp?m=4488465
WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator
User avatar
RedLancer
Posts: 4338
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:09 am
Location: UK

RE: WitE 2

Post by RedLancer »

ORIGINAL: xhoel

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

In WITE2 there will be something to prevent the whermacht to enrole 2 millions of hiwis in the first year?
I remind my compaigns always ending with Heer stronger at the end of first harsh winter because of tons of Hiwis added without decreasing the experience of german units, as probably should be.
Thanks

Hiwis did not have combat roles so I do not see why that should affect the experience of a division.

I'll try and answer the recent flurry of questions over the weekend...

on Hiwis WitE2 handles things differently - in broad terms they are a type of manpower like South African troops are in WitW.
John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev
User avatar
RedLancer
Posts: 4338
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:09 am
Location: UK

RE: WitE 2

Post by RedLancer »

ORIGINAL: HaHaeTs

will the soviets have the same "fortress" feature for, say, Leningrad or Sevastopol?

Yes[:)]
John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev
User avatar
thedoctorking
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:00 am

RE: WitE 2

Post by thedoctorking »

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Will leader rolls be changed so that players have an incentive to actually place better leaders in say Army HQs (For Germans) and Front HQs (for the Soviets)? The way rolls work right now, it is counterproductive to place Manstein anywhere higher than a Panzer Corps HQ.
+1!!!!

Another thing is to reverse the application of distance penalties to leader rolls so the immediate HQ (Corps/Army) has to be closer than the higher HQ.
User avatar
MrBlizzard
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:34 pm
Location: Italy

RE: WitE 2

Post by MrBlizzard »

ORIGINAL: xhoel

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

In WITE2 there will be something to prevent the whermacht to enrole 2 millions of hiwis in the first year?
I remind my compaigns always ending with Heer stronger at the end of first harsh winter because of tons of Hiwis added without decreasing the experience of german units, as probably should be.
Thanks

Hiwis did not have combat roles so I do not see why that should affect the experience of a division.
Hi, this is my thinking:
Heer put best elements in fighting squads: younger, more fit. They put older and less fit men in support roles.
when you move the latter in fighting roles you're moving cooks, drivers, ecc to roles where don't have experience to replace skilfull and more suitable men.
Hiwis replaced support men moved to frontline, I don't see no particular problem in this.
But I think in whole process you should have a deterioration in general performance and experience.
Blizzard
User avatar
RedLancer
Posts: 4338
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:09 am
Location: UK

RE: WitE 2

Post by RedLancer »

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Will leader rolls be changed so that players have an incentive to actually place better leaders in say Army HQs (For Germans) and Front HQs (for the Soviets)? The way rolls work right now, it is counterproductive to place Manstein anywhere higher than a Panzer Corps HQ.
+1!!!!

Another thing is to reverse the application of distance penalties to leader rolls so the immediate HQ (Corps/Army) has to be closer than the higher HQ.


I haven't played WitE in a very long time so I have no idea about any changes since the code split from WitW. As far as I recall WitE2 has no changes from WitW but don't quote me on it. [;)]
John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev
User avatar
nukkxx5058
Posts: 3141
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:57 pm
Location: France

RE: WitE 2

Post by nukkxx5058 »

Hi, can't read the whole thread... too many pages.
So will just indicate a few things that I'd like to see in WITE 2.

* More clear/important impact of terrain on combat, per type of units. I'd love if a stronghold in the montain with a few companies in it to be hard to take even by large/strong units. Something as strong as the swamp effect on tanks in WITE1 which is the only case I find really convincing. In fact. I'd like something similar to TOAW.

* better impact of structures (bridges, lack of bridge, cities, villages, forts, etc) on movemnent/combat

* More orders like fortify, entrench and other engeneering works.
* More shortkeys like "next HQ". Generally speaking an improved system to better see units away from HQ.
* on-map arty able to fight at long range (several hexes) ! (like in TOAW in fact)
* better model for air bombing. Don't know if I'm doing something wrong but bombing an unit rarely has any effect ... (unlike bombing an airfield which has effect).
* naval warfare in the black sea
* improved bombing on production sites (I barely see any effect ... maybe my wrong doing ?)
* impact of the western front

Will probably have other wishes ... but so far, that's it :-)


Winner of the first edition of the Command: Modern Operations COMPLEX PBEM Tournament (IKE) (April 2022) :-)
Hghx-0
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 5:10 pm

RE: WitE 2

Post by Hghx-0 »

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

Hi, can't read the whole thread... too many pages.
So will just indicate a few things that I'd like to see in WITE 2.

* More clear/important impact of terrain on combat, per type of units. I'd love if a stronghold in the montain with a few companies in it to be hard to take even by large/strong units. Something as strong as the swamp effect on tanks in WITE1 which is the only case I find really convincing. In fact. I'd like something similar to TOAW.

* better impact of structures (bridges, lack of bridge, cities, villages, forts, etc) on movemnent/combat

* More orders like fortify, entrench and other engeneering works.
* More shortkeys like "next HQ". Generally speaking an improved system to better see units away from HQ.
* on-map arty able to fight at long range (several hexes) ! (like in TOAW in fact)
* better model for air bombing. Don't know if I'm doing something wrong but bombing an unit rarely has any effect ... (unlike bombing an airfield which has effect).
* naval warfare in the black sea
* improved bombing on production sites (I barely see any effect ... maybe my wrong doing ?)
* impact of the western front

Will probably have other wishes ... but so far, that's it :-)



Air bombing of ground units doesn't destroy, but disrupts lots of enemy elements, sometimes the amounts can be HUGE, measured in thousands of men. Disrupted elements don't take a part in battle and CV calculation after, so the overall combat effectiveness and CV will drop down accordingly.
User avatar
thedoctorking
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:00 am

RE: WitE 2

Post by thedoctorking »

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Will leader rolls be changed so that players have an incentive to actually place better leaders in say Army HQs (For Germans) and Front HQs (for the Soviets)? The way rolls work right now, it is counterproductive to place Manstein anywhere higher than a Panzer Corps HQ.
+1!!!!

Another thing is to reverse the application of distance penalties to leader rolls so the immediate HQ (Corps/Army) has to be closer than the higher HQ.


I haven't played WitE in a very long time so I have no idea about any changes since the code split from WitW. As far as I recall WitE2 has no changes from WitW but don't quote me on it. [;)]
Currently, and, I believe, right from the beginning, range penalties for leader rolls do not apply to the immediately higher headquarters, but do apply to subsequent HQ's in the chain of command. This leads to the ridiculous result that all your army HQs (or Corps for the Germans) can be back in Siberia (or Munich) and work just fine (from the point of view of leader rolls) while the Front/Army and STAVKA/Army Group/OKH HQ's work best if they are within three hexes of the front.
User avatar
thedoctorking
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:00 am

RE: WitE 2

Post by thedoctorking »

And because of this fact, most players realize quickly that there is no point in putting good generals in those higher HQ's (because they will almost always suffer from range penalties that negate the leaders' abilities). So Manstein and Model and Rokossovsky and Zhukov and Konev, and anybody else you've ever heard of, will stay at the Army/Corps command level and never get promoted. The only reason you'll have anybody good at the Front/Army/Group level is if they have a good morale level (which is not affected by range penalties - for reasons not clear to me).
Post Reply

Return to “Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series”