Scenario for playtest: Senkaku Islands Clash 2019

[magi]

have to tell you ... i really like this a lot..... i was playing version 1.4.... i editor mode... will load 1.5 now...

there some comments i would like to make..... i detached the missile batteries from the air facilities because the were weird and not nicely positioned....
i would not worry about to many units... as there are all ready over 2000 at the start perty much...this is just not a scenario for under able computers... there is plenty of smaller scenarios out.... and this wouldn't be right small.....

i turned off encom active in doctrine... and just made facilities active to start.... it was hassle everything going off when launched.... i like to be selective with active encom...

i believe the american ARG is very under escorted.... i do not believe it would be sent in a high threat environment without some serious shooters with a better ballance aaw and and some abm's... the flightI burks load outs are more strike oriented... and while they can support asw operations.. they usually dont embark with them as they do not have facilities... more asw assets they could be had by swapping with flightII's.... and mh-60r's could operate from the LHD... including an LCS could be kind of cool as i believe there is one often in the area.. and would be a useful asw asset....

in your scenario there are a few weeks leading up to the point of possible hostilities... so the usa/japan do have time to make some planes...
one thing that could be cool and very plausible... is to have some japanese/usa sub mission operating in the chinese zone from the start.... and that would also help with the ssk's... because thats what they do.. and it takes them forever them get in to a fight.... they are really just an ambush predator... and if they get discovered... like oh well... the shooting war starts....

do we even have that many p8's...? you gave us a bunch of them... it looks like you put them there for strikers... there could be more japanese strike aircraft.....

the ohio ssgn... would never go into a hi threat area... it would stand off and stay unknown.. a ghost...

all japanese subs have newer versions....

i think the usa/japanese should be veteran.... they are in experience superior to the chinese...

i play in editor mode... so not having some basic loadouts and other stuff is an easy fix... i also put some tankers on okinawa....

well i think i will start your latest version..... what you have done is very cool and i thank you for it.....

[Whicker]

the ohio ssgn... would never go into a hi threat area... it would stand off and stay unknown.. a ghost...

I kept it out of the area as well, kind of figured that it didn't belong anywhere near the hostile zone, but the load of cruise missiles came in handy, that was cool.
I also noticed that the subs all had pretty intricate headings setup, I would delete them - maybe have it going in one direction a bit, but no need to have anything much there (same for the ships, let the player decide IMHO). I put the two ARGs together more or less as the one had more SAMs. When the designer puts such intricate paths for a unit I can't tell if I am supposed to keep on those paths or not.

By the way, how do you deal with the ballistic attack on the ships? was I supposed to destroy the launch pads before that point? limit the number of thaads launched prior to that? pretty sure I was gonna get clobbered before they turned back and went in the wrong direction.

what you have done is very cool and i thank you for it

Ditto.

[BeirutDude]

have to tell you ... i really like this a lot..... i was playing version 1.4.... i editor mode... will load 1.5 now...

Glad you are enjoying it. Everyone's input has made it much better!

there some comments i would like to make.....

i detached the missile batteries from the air facilities because the were weird and not nicely positioned...

.

So this is one were a designer can't win as people are divided on their likes. Even grouped the missiles were a commanding presence on the island making the airbases hard to find. As to positioning, I tried to give orientations that cover the threat axis's and near the bases. Again, I think this might be more preference.

i would not worry about to many units... as there are all ready over 2000 at the start perty much...this is just not a scenario for under able computers... there is plenty of smaller scenarios out.... and

this wouldn't be right small

.....

Agreed. The way I'm designing now is modular. I start with the main conflict area and then slowly add units and bases as they become necessary to tell the story of the conflict. That was why I left the Home Islands bases out.

i turned off encom active in doctrine... and just made facilities active to start.... it was hassle everything going off when launched.... i like to be selective with active encom...

I think you'll like 1.5 better on that score.

i believe the american ARG is very under escorted.... i do not believe it would be sent in a high threat environment without some serious shooters with a better ballance aaw and and some abm's... the flightI burks load outs are more strike oriented... and while they can support asw operations.. they usually dont embark with them as they do not have facilities... more asw assets they could be had by swapping with flightII's.... and mh-60r's could operate from the LHD... including an LCS could be kind of cool as i believe there is one often in the area.. and would be a useful asw asset....

So unless the USN has changed over the past 30 years [:D] On the way to Beirut, positioned for combat our ARG (USS Iwo Juma LPH2) was escorted by a Krivak II and a Sam Kotlin class Soviet Destroyer. I didn't see an American surface combatant until we made it to Lebanon. Just saying, but let me think about this some. BTW I like to have people solve problems in scenarios and I've solved it by lying behind Okinawa and using the island's THAAD battery for cover.

in your scenario there are a few weeks leading up to the point of possible hostilities... so the usa/japan do have time to make some planes...

one thing that could be cool and very plausible... is to have some japanese/usa sub mission operating in the chinese zone from the start.... and that would also help with the ssk's... because thats what they do.. and it takes them forever them get in to a fight.... they are really just an ambush predator... and if they get discovered... like oh well... the shooting war starts....

Great minds think alike. Last night as I was playtesting again I said the same thing to myself and was frustrated getting them through the Island Arc last few times. I think I'm going to Teleport them so each scenario has some randomness. Now to keep things random I would have to set up a Sea Control Mission inside the Teleport area so they would actually move after teleporting and not toward a predicable location (which they would if I just gave them a waypoint to track to). The player could just give them the orders they want and delete the mission after the start of the game.

do we even have that many p8's...? you gave us a bunch of them... it looks like you put them there for strikers... there could be more japanese strike aircraft.....

Yes we do, they are right out of a 2018 OOB for USN Squadrons. As to more Japanese aircraft Naha AB has limited spots for basing. Also, the PRC could have a LOT MORE AIRCRAFT. You have to stop somewhere and think the 5th generation aircraft are more fun and would be the main players. I already find the J-10/11s and F-15s to be AAM/SAM fodder!!!! [:D]

the ohio ssgn... would never go into a hi threat area... it would stand off and stay unknown.. a ghost...

Agree and disagree. Think outside the box, if you wanted to limit SAM response time to a Tomahawk mission in a low ASw environment you'd want to get in close and let loose with as many as possible to limit reaction time.

all japanese subs have newer versions....

They may have to stay this way. to change them now. Oy Vey!!!!!!

i think the usa/japanese should be veteran.... they are in experience superior to the chinese...

That's an easy change. Sure. Not sure the PLAN is that bad though...

i play in editor mode... so not having some basic loadouts and other stuff is an easy fix...

i also put some tankers on okinawa....

I will move the KC-135 Squadron to Kadina from Anderson and leave the KC-10s at Anderson. I have been rebasing them with their missions. Again I like to have some problems for players to solve and rebasing is one of them. Not sure the Theater Commander would want all of those aircraft in one basket at Kadina! That is why the AWACS are split as well. That said, I was playing with this same idea last night and it is easy to do.

well i think i will start your latest version.....

what you have done is very cool and i thank you for it.....

Thank you for your input and time to playtest!!!!!!!!!

[BeirutDude]

I kept it out of the area as well, kind of figured that it didn't belong anywhere near the hostile zone, but the load of cruise missiles came in handy, that was cool.
I also noticed that the subs all had pretty intricate headings setup, I would delete them - maybe have it going in one direction a bit, but no need to have anything much there (same for the ships, let the player decide IMHO). I put the two ARGs together more or less as the one had more SAMs. When the designer puts such intricate paths for a unit I can't tell if I am supposed to keep on those paths or not.

So my reply above addresses the SSKs and SSNs as to the Ohio, well where she goes and how she is used is up to the player! You can give her a heading of 090 or you can try to get in closer and pop off the Tomahawks within the SAM bubble to limit reaction time. Your choice...

By the way, how do you deal with the ballistic attack on the ships? was I supposed to destroy the launch pads before that point? limit the number of thaads launched prior to that?

A problem to be solved by the player but Okinawa's THAAD made a nice cover for me sitting it the lee of the island (But maybe I just got lucky as well????)

pretty sure I was gonna get clobbered before they turned back and went in the wrong direction.

I am not sure what happened there.

[Gunner98]

I think I'm going to Teleport them so each scenario has some randomness. Now to keep things random I would have to set up a Sea Control Mission inside the Teleport area so they would actually move after teleporting and not toward a predicable location (which they would if I just gave them a waypoint to track to).

There is a really good Lua solution to this which gives the designer a lot more control over the randomness. If you take a look at the scenario starting events for 'Old Grudges Never Die' or 'Pole Positions' there are good examples particularly for submarines.

Can't wait to get back to the game to try this one out.

B

[magi]

ORIGINAL: Whicker

the ohio ssgn... would never go into a hi threat area... it would stand off and stay unknown.. a ghost...

I kept it out of the area as well, kind of figured that it didn't belong anywhere near the hostile zone, but the load of cruise missiles came in handy, that was cool.
I also noticed that the subs all had pretty intricate headings setup, I would delete them - maybe have it going in one direction a bit, but no need to have anything much there (same for the ships, let the player decide IMHO). I put the two ARGs together more or less as the one had more SAMs. When the designer puts such intricate paths for a unit I can't tell if I am supposed to keep on those paths or not.

By the way, how do you deal with the ballistic attack on the ships? was I supposed to destroy the launch pads before that point? limit the number of thaads launched prior to that? pretty sure I was gonna get clobbered before they turned back and went in the wrong direction.

what you have done is very cool and i thank you for it

Ditto.

hey Whicker....

(I also noticed that the subs all had pretty intricate headings)... ya me too... i deleted all the paths.. and also re positioned most of the units....

(I put the two ARGs together more or less as the one had more SAMs.).... i was thinking of doing this also.... the japanese shooters also have some ASBM SAMs in their loadouts.... but im probably going to swap out the flight I DDGs for fligh IIAs.... currently they are biased more for strike... i will reduce strike loads and bias them for AAW and with some ABMD abilities.... there are plenty of strike assits in the scenario... so 40-80 less tomahawks wont hurt much.. i may add an ageis cruiser....
i saw right away that with the composition of the us arg they were going to probably get creamed... i considered the groups could hang out under the Okinawa ABMD bubble untill you reduced chinese capabilities... however that might take too long and you might mot compleet the mission....

(By the way, how do you deal with the ballistic attack on the ships?).... we do this with aegis cruisers/destroyers/ddg 1000's.... ships capable of handling ABM/ASBM missiles... like the following....
RIM 161C& 161E SM3 NTW BLK IB&BLK II.... many of rhe RIMs with ABM mods and optimazation.... in hi threat enviorment.. you also need a layered air defense umbrella.. so you can start attriting the incoming way out there so you dont get over whelmed...

im starting on his 1.4.5 now...

have fun Magi.....

[BeirutDude]

My next design is going to be a small one that I intend to use to learn some LUA scripts/programing, but for now I'm going to finish this with what I know! [8D]

[BeirutDude]

I put the two ARGs together more or less as the one had more SAMs.

I have also done that bringing the Bonhomme Richard ARG along at 5 kts and the Kaga's ARG up to them at Flank (and both in the lee of Okinawa until time to make a run at the Senkaku).

Sounds to me like you are problem solving with what you have (unless you change them out [:D] ). It would be neat if every commander could change things out for the units they want to command vs. what they have! [:D] [8D] [:)] But in the finial analysis it is just a game. Have fun...

[BeirutDude]

OK Playtest version 1.6 deleted.

I addressed the items just above with teleporting subs, moving some support squadrons and a few other clean up items. I really think this is it, unless someone finds a major problem I'm going to call it done. heck you can tweak a scenario forever.

Update: the scenario has been released...

[magi]

well... im playing this 1.4.5 now about 2 hours into it..... i spent hours checking everything out...and setting myself up...
have my all my stuff the way i want it... i planted 4 of the japnese subs in the chinese zone... none have been detected yet in the last 2 hours... three of them are at periscope depth hoping to intercept the liaoning... i think 1 of them will make it...
i will probably be playing till 2 in the morning... thank you very much....

i launched my b52s... im thinking of preempting.. and shoot first....

[Ancalagon451]

Perhaps you should tweak the teleport zone a little, two of my subs have been spawned almost on top of a chinese tourist beach.

Ancalagon

[BeirutDude]

Ancalagon451, Got a little carried away there, I can do that [:D] [:D] [:D]

Edit, fixed. Thanks.

[templar42]

Great scenario! Really good fun. Just two tiny points which might be worth tidying up: I didn't seem to score VPs for killing Chinese H-6 tanker variants, and I noticed that I lost only 50 VPs when one of my F-22s was shot down whereas I gained 100 for each J-20 kill. Surely they should at least be at parity, and probably the F-22 kill should have hurt my score a lot more than it did? Thanks for these scenarios - really enjoyed this one and Nordkapp 1985.

[BeirutDude]

Great scenario! Really good fun.

Glad you enjoyed it!

Just two tiny points which might be worth tidying up: I didn't seem to score VPs for killing Chinese H-6 tanker variants, and I noticed that I lost only 50 VPs when one of my F-22s was shot down whereas I gained 100 for each J-20 kill. Surely they should at least be at parity, and probably the F-22 kill should have hurt my score a lot more than it did? Thanks for these scenarios

THANKS! I cleaned both up. When your doing scenarios like this the design drags on for a few weeks, an hour or two at a time, and sometimes you mix things up. The tankers are now worth 0005 pts each (same as USAF KC-135s) and the loss of an F-22A will be cost the USAF 150 points not 50!

- really enjoyed this one and Nordkapp 1985.

THANK YOU! Eventually I will clean up that MiG error with NordKapp 85, and actually appreciate your pointing it out. I need a rest from it (and this one) and will come back to it in a few weeks. This one is actually designed/set up to go both ways and I think in a few weeks I will set up the missions for the Japanese-US side and allow folks to play the PRC.

[BeirutDude]

Released! Thanks for your help everyone...

[magi]

thank you sir... this is very cool indeed.... you did good....
when you start on another one... i would like to play test it....

[BeirutDude]

Thank you and be careful what you ask for, as I really appreciate the offer and will take you up on it!!!!! [:D] [&o]

[magi]

Okidokie.......

[Selchu]

Awesome wee mission.
I'm going through it again.
The only things I have noticed are that I made it to midnight with no attacks by either side. What I did end up with was a no shots fired furball over both Kaneda and alot of H-6s orbiting my ARGS.
To this end I find I am starting the fight when the H-6s get in range as they are entering my 'no-fly' zone.
I have also moved the ARGs close together.

The only thing I think is missing from the scenario is event messages during the mission to help continue on with the story. The brief is awesome and easily one of the best i ever read. I just think that something during the mission would make it better.

Either way. NICE WORK SIR!

[Selchu]

Also how did you setup the ARG ASW points? i have never before seen them move with a surface ship and really wanna know how to do this so I can use it in other scenarios (Probably a beginner question i know)