The Accidental War Obvert vs Lowpe

[Lowpe]

There is no righting this game, no decisive battle that will turn the tide...the combined strength of the Allies and Soviets ground game is simply too strong, and a decisive battle would cause Allies to pursue tactics that they haven't used yet and there is no counter too this early.

Anyhow, we struggle on...heavy fighting in Manchuko/China, IJN gathering at Samah to rescue the survivors of Cam Ranh Bay. Burma sees heavy fighting and the concentration of all the Allied Beasts.

[Olorin]

Where can I find these beautiful graphics, Lowpe?

[adarbrauner]

You know, if you sink his carriers, and it could be...than many things shall change in the area.

You got close when he sailed to resupply/reinforce Manila, and it may well repeat itself.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

There is no righting this game, no decisive battle that will turn the tide...the combined strength of the Allies and Soviets ground game is simply too strong...

+1


I beleive this accurate. Even if he had been prepared for the incursion (which he wasn't), it was too soon. Maybe, and it really is a maybe, IJ could take on the bear in mid-42 successfully. Never been done n a PBEM that I know of, so we have no evidence. I think it would be extremely difficult to pull off against a competent allied player, but maybe.
Maybe if you got CK early and then turned tot he bear, maybe. Clearly, if you take both China and SOV out of the game early, then '45 looks completely different.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Olorin

Where can I find these beautiful graphics, Lowpe?

I dug them out of the mod art folder...couple years back.

Which particularly are you interested in...I can dropbox them to you or some other method if the links no longer work.

[Lowpe]

Sept 29, 1942

CAP trap does good work..

[Lowpe]

Beasts continue to ravage...

[Lowpe]

Super heavy bombardment of the Indians and other Allies here, six or seven battleships during both the night and day phase...losses exceptionally light, one can only hope for some disruption.

Bombarding troops not in bases is exceptionally low reward unless the disruption is high, and of course I can't figure that out...



Night Naval bombardment of Tourane at 66,65

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
CA Aoba
CL Jintsu
DD Tachikaze
DD Hokaze
DD Yudachi
DD Shigure
DD Amatsukaze
DD Shiranui
DD Oyashio
DD Kagero
TB Otori

Allied ground losses:
44 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

F1M2 Pete acting as spotter for BB Kongo
BB Kongo firing at 11th Indian Division
CA Aoba firing at 11th Indian Division
E7K2 Alf acting as spotter for CL Jintsu
CL Jintsu firing at 148th Infantry Regiment
DD Tachikaze firing at 148th Infantry Regiment
DD Hokaze firing at 11th Indian Division
DD Yudachi firing at 22nd Australian Brigade
DD Shigure firing at 148th Infantry Regiment
DD Amatsukaze firing at 11th Indian Division
DD Shiranui firing at 11th Indian Division
DD Oyashio firing at 11th Indian Division
DD Kagero firing at 11th Indian Division
TB Otori firing at 209th Field Artillery Battalion


Naval bombardment of Tourane at 66,65 (Daytime)

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga
BB Fuso
BB Nagato
BB Kirishima
CA Suzuya
CL Tenryu
CL Yura
DD Yugao
DD Matsukaze
DD Yuzuki
DD Shirakumo
DD Ariake
DD Yugure
DD Harusame

Allied ground losses:
128 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

[Lowpe]

We hold, more troops on the way, but it looks bleak.

[Lowpe]

Another decent day in the air, but it doesn't slow the Allies aerial assault, and their troops are limitless...soo many units all across the front from Manchuko to Burma.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo




I beleive this accurate. Even if he had been prepared for the incursion (which he wasn't), it was too soon. Maybe, and it really is a maybe, IJ could take on the bear in mid-42 successfully. Never been done n a PBEM that I know of, so we have no evidence. I think it would be extremely difficult to pull off against a competent allied player, but maybe.
Maybe if you got CK early and then turned tot he bear, maybe. Clearly, if you take both China and SOV out of the game early, then '45 looks completely different.

NJP has done some work here (scen 2), in activating the Bear...Japan simply doesn't have the infrastructure to launch an early attack on the Bear, and Japan desperately needs to inflict substantial losses in the SRA and Burma and China before any attack.

Since this is a scenario one style game well enough said there.

[PaxMondo]

Lost 2 attempts, will try again later. [:(]

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Maybe if you got CK early and then turned tot he bear, maybe. Clearly, if you take both China and SOV out of the game early, then '45 looks completely different.

Only after CK taking, cause Japan would really need all the Chinese divisions to bottle up Soviets in the Vlad pocket and also restrict the Mongolia/Blagoveschensk groups. Soviets are the most potent Allied ground force up to maybe 44, and their artillery is simply the best. They can chew through a lot of stuff when concentrated. Goes without saying that timing to cut all the border RRs at start is also essential

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Maybe if you got CK early and then turned tot he bear, maybe. Clearly, if you take both China and SOV out of the game early, then '45 looks completely different.

Only after CK taking, cause Japan would really need all the Chinese divisions to bottle up Soviets in the Vlad pocket and also restrict the Mongolia/Blagoveschensk groups. Soviets are the most potent Allied ground force up to maybe 44, and their artillery is simply the best. They can chew through a lot of stuff when concentrated. Goes without saying that timing to cut all the border RRs at start is also essential

Exactly.
IJ Air force will be the determinant, it has to negate the SOV arty.
I have little doubt that tactically, this is achievable (taking the SOV out of the game like the CHI). BUT strategically will it work?
The supply cost is going to be enormous. The supply cost for CHI is already a huge burden on IJ. This is what will determine if this really works or not.

[ITAKLinus]

Of course it doesn't


Urss can be a funny campaign but it doesn't provide precious oil to the jap.

What's even worse is that everything has a cost opportunity in this game and attacking Russia I think it's the very worse ration someone could achieve

India is, by far, the best place a Japanese can conquer. Economically speaking it's a sort of heaven, but it's horribly hard to capture.

Australia is the second best with respect to India. It doesn't provide huge economic strategic benefits but it's relatively easy to conquer.


Russia is terribly hard to capture and it doesn't provide economical benefits, so... what are we talking about?


Regarding China I am currently pursuing a different path. I have conquered everything out of CK plains and I am defending q line roughly at Kweyiang.
It much cheaper than attacking CK plains and it provides almost the same benefits.

[adarbrauner]

Well actually in "my" mod Russian Siberian locations shall receive a very great boost of VP points, to try simulating the huge strategical and political effect of a successful Japanese intervention in the Russian war, and to make the endeavor more palatable and rewarding for the Japanese player;

however, I still hardly think I would take on Russia; all the resources and reserves, of the Army in particular, are needed to

---

try

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winning the Western Allies (yes...believe it...yeah...);

but still... if and when the stalemate is reached in the Pacific and Indian Ocean...so I may think to use aptly the Manchurian army to try turning things to the Axis side, globally ;

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

Of course it doesn't


Urss can be a funny campaign but it doesn't provide precious oil to the jap.

What's even worse is that everything has a cost opportunity in this game and attacking Russia I think it's the very worse ration someone could achieve

India is, by far, the best place a Japanese can conquer. Economically speaking it's a sort of heaven, but it's horribly hard to capture.

Australia is the second best with respect to India. It doesn't provide huge economic strategic benefits but it's relatively easy to conquer.


Russia is terribly hard to capture and it doesn't provide economical benefits, so... what are we talking about?


Regarding China I am currently pursuing a different path. I have conquered everything out of CK plains and I am defending q line roughly at Kweyiang.
It much cheaper than attacking CK plains and it provides almost the same benefits.

Its about fighting SOV in late 42 or in 45. In 42 they have little to no air force; IJ should be able to control the air in '42 if planned for.
Taking SOV out of the war by mid 43 … that means 2 of the largest AV armies assembled against IJ out of the picture.
I think that is quite a good reason to consider taking out the SOV.
Going for India after that? Yes, that might be a good idea … I agree, India has a lot of economic assets that can be seized.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus
Regarding China I am currently pursuing a different path. I have conquered everything out of CK plains and I am defending q line roughly at Kweyiang.
It much cheaper than attacking CK plains and it provides almost the same benefits.

You may not have faced the CHI hordes in '44. Those +700 AV divs if they have supply are monsters. Coupled with SOV Armor and arty, they can smash through any defense IJ has.
So, you are not quite focused on the same aspects that I am ….

[adarbrauner]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


Going for India after that? Yes, that might be a good idea … I agree, India has a lot of economic assets that can be seized.

You need a lot of PPs avaiable to do that, really a lot, depending on what mod and how large its pps allocation, nand on your set of HR regarding required expenditure of pps;
Me for myself, for example, play very conservatively, and require the expenditure of pps for any change of sector of competence, for both land and air units;

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


Going for India after that? Yes, that might be a good idea … I agree, India has a lot of economic assets that can be seized.

You need a lot of PPs avaiable to do that, really a lot, depending on what mod and how large its pps allocation, nand on your set of HR regarding required expenditure of pps;
Me for myself, for example, play very conservatively, and require the expenditure of pps for any change of sector of competence, for both land and air units;

Yeah, but I'm talking about after both CHI and SOV have been taken out … 8/43 or later … by then you've had time to buy out pretty much what you want/need no matter what your rules are.
One advantage of going after SOV is that you don't need to buy out the CHI/MAN forces … you can focus for a while on the Gen Def HQ forces.
Then you can ask about do you need to pay PP's for MAN troops that go overland to India AFTER SOV is contained. The MAN assignment is no longer reasonable, discussion with players etc.