Trophies?

[AngrySwan]

In its first battle Army Group North does not only face the Soviet monster tanks - it also sees a monster cannon, ML-20. These long range guns could duel even with German 150 mm guns staying out of range and, of course, AGN wanted some for themselves...

Is it possible to have a condition "Enemy unit must survive"?

The idea is to destroy only one of ML-20 in Riga scenario (assuming that the Soviets abandon the other one due to lack of tractors or time) then the ''abandoned'' ne could be added to Tallinn scenario (as an undeployed unit) and one German artillery regiment could test it, just for curiousity.
Or send it to the industry as scrap metal if the commanders prefer their own weapons for patriotic reasons.

[terminator]

ML-20 captured guns were employed by Wehrmacht and the Finnish Army.

In the early stage of the German invasion of the Soviet Union hundreds of ML-20 were captured by the Wehrmacht. The gun was adopted by Germans as 15.2 cm KH.433/1(r). From February 1943 Germans manufactured ammunition for the gun.

The Finnish Army captured 37 guns of the type in 1941–44 and received additional 27 from Germany. These guns were adopted as 152 H 37. A number of barrels were mated with carriages of A-19 to create 152 H 37-31. While the gun was generally liked, the Finnish Army didn't possess enough prime movers suitable for towing such a massive piece. As a result, some of the guns were assigned to coastal artillery. Two pieces were captured back by the Red Army.

[Ronald Wendt]

Hi folks,

ORIGINAL: Marechal

Is it possible to have a condition "Enemy unit must survive"?

You can create an event with the conditions "keep-units". The unit(s) in question need to be on the map so it cannot be applied to reinforcements at the moment.
The handling is now about if the owner or his opponent needs to keep/destroy this unit.
As a prelude to this you need an event that makes sure e.g. 9 of the 10 Soviet units were destroyed to trigger the "keep-unit" event.

In the action you need to use the type "Bonus Units" and hand the player in question the unit you want.

This is the theory - so far i have not tested such a chain. I hope to be able to make a small demo map this week to prove it works.

Regards,

[Ronald Wendt]

Hi folks,

so i attached a little demo in which, after you destroyed two NKVD units and left the ML-20 regiment in tact, you will receive such a unit yourself as core unit in the HQ. This could also be done if all units were crushed, of course. Its more a matter of the story you want to tell with the events.

In a campaign you have also a different option: you can save campaign variables. These are saved for the whole campaign and can be used as a condition on any map after the variable was defined.

This way you can do things like counting for three brilliant victories in that variable and look in map #5 of your imaginary campaign if the value was reached and if so give the player a unit as a reward (that was what PG did i believe).

But also you can trigger an event later in the campaign. Lets say you set a campaign variable on map #2 if a certain enemy unit survived, you could place a upgraded and stronger version on map #7 or if it was destroyed you leave it out or make it weaker.

Please let me know if something is not clear or if you want more in depth information or different examples.

Regards,

[terminator]

Another solution would be to be able to capture a unit having imposed on this unit a number of damage but not destroying it. The unit would surrender or would be abandoned.

[AngrySwan]

Hi Ronald,

The 1941 campaign is now ready with Epic Wjasma and missing divisions for AG Center so I will see if trophies can be given to AG North.

There is one battle where those guns are really needed - the new Staraya Russa. You can beat the Soviets without them but not so easily. 150 mm cannot come close to ML-20 without getting hit first so infantry has to attack the Soviet guns unsupported. It is doable but not so easy.

Regards,

[AngrySwan]

The idea is giving a bonus unit to the player and in the demo there are two events: one that triggers the bonus giving (it can be anything; like taking a city or desstroynig an enemy unit) and the bonus event itself.
The bonus event also consists of two parts, the bonus un it appearing in the HQ.

Since the idea was to capture the two ML-20 guns in Riga scenario I will assume that they are captured by the time AGS takes Mitau/Jelgava and Riga, one piece for each city.

There are some problems that will need attention some time later - the Soviet gun has a Soviet flag, moves with a Soviet truck and can be upgraded to other Soviet weapons. But these problems are not important now and can be addressed in a later version of the game.

[AngrySwan]

So if you want to get ML-20 guns in Riga scenario you need to destroy the Soviet ML-20 artillery units and you get one ML-20 for each Soviet ML-20 unit you destroy.

Although ML-20 is not better than German 150 mm howitzer, it has longer range. In theory German 170 mm heavy guns are just as good or slightly better but in practice the factories do not produce enough of them and they come later than needed - so men on the frontline will use ML-20 guns for counterbattery fight.

Surrender as a condition for trophy would be interesting. The tank force is very strong as it is but it could use some captured T-34 or KV.

[AngrySwan]

Captured ML-20 are now available in the 1941 campaign. You get one trophy gun for each Soviet ML-20 regiment you destroy in Riga scenario, maximum 2.

Known problems, maybe for next version after 1.09
- Trophy units still have a Soviet flag, even of the counter is German
- The unit has Soviet upgrade system including guard status [:)] but it is perfectly possible that the artillery regiments using these guns get unofficial nickname ''Soviet guard''.

Otherwise it is a very good gun and has been useful in Estonia as well as Staraya Russa and Tikhvin areas.

[Ronald Wendt]

Hi Angry Swan,

we did not use this option often and if you usually got won units so these things did not occur.

I will note the underlying problems and see if and when we can counter them.

Thanks for listing the stuff [:)]

Regards,

[AngrySwan]

Hi Ronald,

For the time being I will use the Soviet gun as it is.

If you feel like creating new weapons, there could be ML-20 as a German unit. It would only be available in the editor and not be purchased.

The graphics already exists so the new unit needs to be repainted in German colors and I have no idea how much work it takes.

Regards,

[Ronald Wendt]

Hi AngrySwan,

ORIGINAL: AngrySwan

Hi Ronald,

For the time being I will use the Soviet gun as it is.

If you feel like creating new weapons, there could be ML-20 as a German unit. It would only be available in the editor and not be purchased.

The graphics already exists so the new unit needs to be repainted in German colors and I have no idea how much work it takes.

Regards,

thats an option and its most times quite easy to retexture the models. But is it the best/fastes way when we are potentially dealing with a high amount of them ? Thats what i want to clarify first. The point is many nations took working equipment whenever it was feasible. But we are only interested in that if at least batallion size units were equipped which limits the number. So before i do something about it, i want to know more.

There is also the problem of upgrading from Bn to a higher formation which is unrealistic if you have captured a limited stock of weapons.

Of course another way to see this is that its fun to be able to capture anything even if its not what historically happened in some cases.

[AngrySwan]

Hi Ronald,

The best way is to use standard weapons and, looking at the Soviet arsenal, ML-20 is the only interesting piece in 1941 and only because mass production of 17 K18 has not started yet.

The Soviets do not have that many ML-20 so in most cases German 150 mm guns are perfect counterbattery weapons.

So the question is did the industry make enough 17 K18 to equip two regiments, or at least one, to send it to Staraya Russa?

Fighting for Lithuania, AGN can just ignore the ML-20 and go the other way. In Estonia there is no need for long range guns as the Soviets only hqve regulqr 150 mm pieces and AGN does not need anything more than 150 mm howitzers. By the time AGN attacks Tikhvin - Volkhov, it can get 17 K18. The only problematic scenario is Staraya Russa (the new version, a sort of hybrid between Road to Demyansk and Starays Russa from AA campaign.) although it can be won by concentrating the whole force in HQ area and destroying the Soviet guns with infantry divisions. Not so easy scenario and you may even lose a division - which is a catastrophe for summer 1941 - but even without 17 K18 the mission is doable.

If having a choice between 17 K18 and captured ML-20 I would choose 17 K18. The only reason why I would look at ML-20 is because there are no 17 K18 - but maybe a prototype unit as bonus? After all, AGN is sent to Leningrad and no one can take a big city without artillery duels. If not, infantry will have to fight the hard way. Or maybe there is a chance to bring a panzer group from AGC after Smolensk, after all the central sector sees no major battles so panzer crews must be kept busy; and after the battle they can be sent back to AG Center.

[Ronald Wendt]

Hi AngrySwan,

to avoid too much programming and the glitches with Soviet units under German command, i would suggest i add the most prominent/important machines to the German arsenal as non-buyables.

The T-34 and ML-20/ZiS-3 Artillery comes to mind. If you need any, just let me now here or in the wishlist.

[AngrySwan]

Hi Ronald,

You can add those two, as available only through the editor.

In fact, there are only three scenarios in 1941 where ML-20 can make some difference:

- Riga - the Soviet artillery south east of Ebenrode would be detected by air recon and after that AGN can attack in the area not covered by those guns and just pass buy, or take them out in the last turns (''No one hurts me unpunished'' - (c) Edgar Allan Poe)
- Staraya Russa - if 16th Army fights the battle as meeting engagement, not defense, the longer range of Soviet guns does not make that much difference;
- Tikhvin - there is a Soviet ML-20 near Volkhov but by then Germany has 170 mm guns.

Anyway, it is a good option to have and maybe there is a chance to use an ad hoc battalion of these.

[Ronald Wendt]

Ok, lets do it this way.