I just forced a USN sub to surface - How?

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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spence
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RE: I just forced a USN sub to surface - How?

Post by spence »

If the commander is highly aggressive, there a chance he will surface when low on torpedoes and using deck guns. Unless you hit a mine or seriously damage beyond repair.

I know how the game works. My question has always been whether or not a particular game "mechanic" reflects reality. In the case of IJN submarines it seems that none of them ever fired torpedoes at their attackers after having been FORCED to surface because of damage

Using deck guns seems to have been the norm. It should be noted that the escorts who had depth charged the submarine to the surface got to shoot with any gun that would bear from the moment that the submarine surfaced. In most cases that was a whole bunch of guns but occasionally the submarine would surface so close to the escort that its main armament could not be depressed to bear on the submarine. In any case the result was (usually) that the submarine would be hit multiple times by relatively big guns before its gun crew had even gotten near their gun (along with a supply of ammunition). Thus it was that submarines always lost their confrontations with escorts once they were forced to the surface by depth charging/damage.

But since I checked the TROMs of all Japanese submarines (according to combinedfleet.com) and found NO INSTANCES of launching torpedoes at their attackers after being seriously damaged underwater I wondered if it had ever happened. It seems that U-371 singularly holds that honor (and although the "homing" torpedo hit it did not sink the Free French Corvette SENEGALAIS at which it was fired). Several IJN submarines were forced to the surface by damage but although they manned their deck guns (or attempted to) NONE of them fired their torpedoes.
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m10bob
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RE: I just forced a USN sub to surface - How?

Post by m10bob »

Just more of the "chrome" we love in this game.


BTW...That sound clip of the sub commander yelling "Dive,Dive" is Clark Gable from "RUN SILENT,RUN DEEP".
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Rising-Sun
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RE: I just forced a USN sub to surface - How?

Post by Rising-Sun »

Well some commanders may think that boat isn't worth a torpedo and want to use deck gun instead. It did happen though.
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Skyros
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RE: I just forced a USN sub to surface - How?

Post by Skyros »

ORIGINAL: spence
If the commander is highly aggressive, there a chance he will surface when low on torpedoes and using deck guns. Unless you hit a mine or seriously damage beyond repair.

I know how the game works. My question has always been whether or not a particular game "mechanic" reflects reality. In the case of IJN submarines it seems that none of them ever fired torpedoes at their attackers after having been FORCED to surface because of damage

Using deck guns seems to have been the norm. It should be noted that the escorts who had depth charged the submarine to the surface got to shoot with any gun that would bear from the moment that the submarine surfaced. In most cases that was a whole bunch of guns but occasionally the submarine would surface so close to the escort that its main armament could not be depressed to bear on the submarine. In any case the result was (usually) that the submarine would be hit multiple times by relatively big guns before its gun crew had even gotten near their gun (along with a supply of ammunition). Thus it was that submarines always lost their confrontations with escorts once they were forced to the surface by depth charging/damage.

But since I checked the TROMs of all Japanese submarines (according to combinedfleet.com) and found NO INSTANCES of launching torpedoes at their attackers after being seriously damaged underwater I wondered if it had ever happened. It seems that U-371 singularly holds that honor (and although the "homing" torpedo hit it did not sink the Free French Corvette SENEGALAIS at which it was fired). Several IJN submarines were forced to the surface by damage but although they manned their deck guns (or attempted to) NONE of them fired their torpedoes.
Well Spence being that it was one of my subs, I have to say that is the first time I have seen a sub fire torpedoes when forced to surface and I have been playing this great game for nine years. Just be thankful he missed the Massachusetts because that video would now be my signature.[:D][8D]
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: I just forced a USN sub to surface - How?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Skyros

Well Spence being that it was one of my subs, I have to say that is the first time I have seen a sub fire torpedoes when forced to surface and I have been playing this great game for nine years. Just be thankful he missed the Massachusetts because that video would now be my signature.[:D][8D]

I've seen it scores of times.
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spence
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RE: I just forced a USN sub to surface - How?

Post by spence »

I've seen it scores of times.

So have I and it seems that it is significantly more common than statistically justified by historical records. It did happen once though (U-371) so it would seem the possibility should exist as a very rare possibility rather than being commonplace for submarines which surface already suffering from significant damage.

And for SKYROS: Na-na--na-na-na; you missed[:D]

[:D][:D]
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: I just forced a USN sub to surface - How?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

Yeah, but N.B. for the U-boat--homing torpedo.

I've fired torpedo tubes that were almost exactly the WWII design, and there's really no way a torpedoman could do it from a standing start if the compartment were flooding, filled with smoke, and at an angle. If the shutter and outer door were open, the tube flooded, the gyro spindles out, and there was still HP air and AC power, maybe. Once. An un-aimed snapshot. I've seen up to four salvos from surfaced subs in the game.

The thing is, any sub that CAN stay down WILL stay down. Surfacing near a skimmer gun platform is fatal. They're made to shoot guns; subs aren't. They have good FC systems; subs have MK I eyeballs. They roll some; subs roll a lot. And so forth. If a sub surfaces while heavily damaged it's to get the crew off. That's hard. Hatches are small and all but the bridge are vulnerable to sea state and flooding. If the crew is trying to unlimber deck guns and not trying to get over the side, the skimmers are justified in pouring in shells, and they will always win that one. If you want to go down with all hands you can stay under and sink. If you surface it's in the hope of saving some of the crew. Fighting back at all makes that doubtful.
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