M60A3TTS Full of Hot Air - MarauderPL (Axis) vs M60 (Soviet)

[M60A3TTS]

I ran out of space on the subject line. It should read:

M60A3TTS Full of Hot Air Action- MarauderPL (Axis) vs M60 (Soviet) No MarauderPL

This is going to be a sort of AAR/War Room thread dealing with the Red Army Air Force, or VVS.

If you are not interested in the details around the air stuff that will also include AA units, you can stop reading this and move onto something else. There won't be a lot of details around ground action, so if you are expecting that, then again, you can probably move on.

Likely this AAR won't cover every single turn of the game, but we'll see how things shake out over time.

I did not want to get hung up over victory points in the Bitter End campaign, so this game is the 1941-45 ALT CV campaign and is being played under version 1.11.03 with the following conditions:

1. Reworked New Feature #5 from 1.11.02. Air groups will have their own national morale level, based on regular national morale increased by 5. There will be also the following modifiers: +10 for German air groups before 1943, +5 for German air groups before 1945, +5 for Finnish air groups, +10 for Soviet Guards air groups. This value can never be lower than 25, and higher than 99. Air group national morale will be seen next to air group morale on air group details screen.

a) Morale and experience of newly built Soviet air groups will be equal to 75% of current Soviet air group national morale.

b) Morale increase for air groups sent to reserve will be equal to 50% of their morale distance towards national morale (rounding up).

c) Immediate morale increase for Soviet air groups becoming Guards will be equal to 10.

[TheLysander]

Great, this is an aspect that desperately needs attention. Looking forward to it!

[EwaldvonKleist]

Oh no, please don't leave out the ground war!

And I supposse this AAR will include allot of anti-U2 propaganda?

[SparkleyTits]

Nice concept mate and definitely one that will help alot of players
I can't wait!

[Telemecus]

This looks like a very worthy angle for an AAR to be written.

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
And I supposse this AAR will include allot of anti-U2 propaganda?

There is plenty of pro U2 propaganda - just have to google it.

[M60A3TTS]

I think the U-2 is cool. Here's a sexy pic.

[EwaldvonKleist]

the U-2 is cool

So true

[M60A3TTS]

I especially like the version with the rear turret.

[SparkleyTits]

Haha [:D]

[M60A3TTS]

Here are some numbers around what the main combatants look like. For information on the Axis Allies the 8MP Axis thread goes into detail on what is available there.

Luftwaffe

The Luftwaffe begins the 1941 campaign with approximately 3,200 aircraft in the field and another 800 in reserve. By aircraft type they break down to these rough numbers:
Recon- 670 deployed, 220 in reserve
Level bombers- 990 deployed, 420 in reserve
Fighters- 800 deployed, 210 in reserve
Fighter bombers- 160 deployed, nine in reserve
Tactical bombers- 340 deployed, none in reserve
Transports- 385 deployed, none in reserve

Soviet forces

The Soviet air forces total approximately 12,500 aircraft at the start. Broken down by type, they break down roughly as follows:
Fighters and fighter-bombers: 150 regiments and 31 battalions containing 7,000 aircraft
Tactical/Dive Bombers: 20 regiments and 3 battalions of 800 aircraft
Level bombers: 104 regiments and 14 battalions of 4,200 aircraft
Recon and Strategic Recon: 12 regiments and 1 battalion of 400 aircraft
Transports: 5 regiments of 60 aircraft

In most cases, the Axis turn 1 will result in the loss of between 4,000 to 6,000 Soviet aircraft. Soviet air regiments are 40 aircraft on turn 1 but are halved on turn 3 to 20. As a result, a lot of aircraft will be filling the reserve pools of aircraft. This will be offset slightly as battalions over time can upgrade to regiments. Prior to turn 8 in the 1941 campaign scenarios, no new air units may be built. Starting on tun 8, up to 8 air units can be created in addition to one airbase.

Organization and Airbases- The VVS initially operates on 80 airbases under 20 different air commands. Some of these are associated with ground fronts while others are not. As an example, the Long Range Air Command operates 4 BAK (air corps) until turn 10 at which time they are automatically disbanded and two air commands are dedicated air defense HQs dedicated to the protection of Leningrad and Moscow. There are two naval air commands: Baltic Fleet and Black Sea Fleet which are there primarily for historical purposes as there is little in terms of naval operations in the game. A total of 28 airbases are SADs and all of these will be disbanded at a rate of three per week beginning on turn 34. That is the first week of February 1942. Normally I start building new airbases early on at a rate of 1 per week in order to offset the loss of the SADs. There are some airbases that support the two naval commands, designated by the abbreviation KBF. Typically I disband these when I have the opportunity and replace them with other types of bases. That said, there is no reason why people can’t keep and use them for any purpose desired.

Leadership- Each air command at the start of the game is led by a general with an air rating from 3 to 6. The Soviets do not have a wealth of good air leaders during the Summer of 41. Generally I am looking for air leaders with an air rating of 6 and an admin rating of 5 or more. A good admin rating will result in more damaged aircraft being repaired and not lost. During the first 15 turns, these leaders include A. Novikov who already commands Northern Air Command, N Skripko and V Sudets who command 3rd and 4th BAK respectively, F Falaleev and T Khryukin who start in the reserve pool.

Anti-Aircraft Artillery or AAA
This version of the game initially contains 231 PVO AA regiments and battalions as support units. Some of these are lost as cities are surrounded. Locations such as Lvov and Bialystok will lose them on the first turn if the Axis pockets cannot be opened. However, with nearly 9,500 guns among the units in cities and on map HQs at the start, a fair number can be put into service to support the Soviet effort. There are admin point costs associated with removing these SUs from cities.

PVO Regiment
15+ hexes = 50AP
<15 hexes = 25AP
<10 hexes = 13AP
< 5 hexes = 1AP

PVO Battalion
15+ hexes = 15AP
<15 hexes = 8AP
<10 hexes = 4AP
< 5 hexes = 1AP

Since a battalion in this case is only 1/5 the size of a regiment, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay costs of more than 1AP for the battalions. In other words, leaving battalions where they are is a good idea until the enemy gets from 1-4 hexes distant. Regiments pretty much the same. You could conceivably do it when the enemy is 5-9 distant, but the cost is pretty high. Anything over 10 hexes and you're really wasting AP.

[AlexSF]

Great post, it should be stickied ! I wish I had read it before starting my Soviet campaign. I have lost several hours and tons of mental health trying to reorganize that mess.
The PVO disbanding cost is great info too.[&o]

[M60A3TTS]

In reviewing the various air regiments and battalions at the start, it is clear that the VVS is an air force little changed from the days of the Spanish Civil War. The Polikarpov I-15 and I-16 make up 84% of the fighter/fighter-bomber regiments and 68% of the battalions.

FFB Regt 150

42 Polikarpov biplanes (28%)

I-153 31
I-15bis 11
1,470 deployed
150 in the national reserve
545 in aircraft pool
2,165 total

84 Polikarpov monoplanes (56%)

I-16 T5 6
I-16 T18 25
I-16 T24 45
I-16 T29 8
3,055 deployed
240 in the national reserve
475 in aircraft pool
3,770 total

24 2nd gen fighter bombers (16%)

LaGG-3 5
MiG-3 17
Yak-1 2
1,020 deployed
25 in the national reserve
760 in aircraft pool
1,805 total

FFB Bn 31

9 Polikarpov biplanes (29%)
I-153 7
I-15bis 2
355 deployed

12 Polikarpov monoplanes (39%)
I-16 T18 4
I-16 T24 7
I-16 T29 1
340 deployed

10 2nd gen fighter bombers (32%)
MiG-3 7
Yak-1 3
140 deployed

All Polikarpov biplane formations

I-153 38
I-15bis 23
1,825 deployed
695 in reserve
2,520 total

All Polikarpov monoplane formations

I-16 T5 6
I-16 T18 29
I-16 T24 52
I-16 T29 9
3,395 deployed
715 in reserve
4,110 total

All 2nd gen fighter bomber formations

LaGG-3 6
MiG-3 26
Yak-1 4
1,160 deployed
785 in reserve
1,945 total

[M60A3TTS]

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[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

In reviewing the various air regiments and battalions at the start, it is clear that the VVS is an air force little changed from the days of the Spanish Civil War. The Polikarpov I-15 and I-16 make up 84% of the fighter/fighter-bomber regiments and 68% of the battalions.

FFB Regt 150

42 Polikarpov biplanes (28%)

I-153 31
I-15bis 11
1,470 deployed
150 in the national reserve
545 in aircraft pool
2,165 total

......

So important it was worth saying twice? [:D]

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I ran out of space on the subject line. It should read:

M60A3TTS Full of Hot Air Action- MarauderPL (Axis) vs M60 (Soviet) No MarauderPL

Interesting title. Reminds of the TV commercial with G.I. Joe with the Kung Fu grip Now we have the Soviet VVS with "Hot Air Action"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbob4vEmzEg

[M60A3TTS]

Turn 1.

Air losses at 5,555.

Compared to a random sample of games, pretty respectable results.

Other games for turn 1 had Soviet air losses such as 6696, 5569, 4954, 4859, 3367, and 2459.

Here is the north


and the south


AA support units were removed at a cost of 1AP each from the Hanko garrison, Minsk and Kishinev. They will be transferred from STAVKA to 27th Army at Pskov next week.

Northwest Air Command leadership changed from Ionov with an air rating of 3 to Falaleev with an air rating of 6.

Air units that were sent to the reserve were those with few or no aircraft remaining, those with low morale and those with large numbers of damaged aircraft. All other units that could be re-directed to key areas were moved around. Priority went to Long Range Air Command, Northern, Northwest and Western Air Commands.

.

All aircraft of the Moscow Air Command and Transcaucasus Front were frozen this turn.

Some upgrades for the fighters will be started before long, so that the maximum # of modern fighters are available.

[thedoctorking]

Did you know that the only air combat victory claimed by a biplane over a jet was by a U2 (called a PO-2 in official designation) of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea Air Force over a USAF F-94, April 5, 1953. The American pilot slowed down too much to get a shot at the slow-moving and low-flying Korean plane and stalled/flamed out. Boom, hero of the DPRK!

The U2/PO-2 is the most widely produced military aircraft of all time. Operational in a variety of national air forces into the 1980's (Albania was the last), it could do pretty much anything. I love them, personally, as a Soviet air commander. They are effective as day bombers once you scare the Luftwaffe out of interception, they work well as short-range transport planes to deliver supplies to surrounded units, and if they get shot down, who cares? And of course, you have to have the "night witches".

[chaos45]

Looks like a really good German opening going to be very hard for you to recover if he knows the supply game and can keep the panzers fueled.

Pulled off almost a perfect initial turn for super Lvov move and still kept north/center locked...looks like he only sacrificed making the hexes by minsk over most opening I have seen...but the solid lock on the initial Super Lvov and keep everything solidly locked more than makes up for that.

[M60A3TTS]

With the Axis opening moves documented in so many AARs, I don't know that I can tell much of an opponents skill level from it. MarauderPL may be an excellent player but time will reveal the answer to that.

Here is the breakdown of Turn 1 losses. I broke the fighter/fighter-bomber losses down to include what I call the second generation fighter/fighter-bomber aircraft. Long range bombers are really a combination of long and intermediate range aircraft. The "fast bombers" of the SB-2 and Pe-2 type took the greater losses over the truly long range types such as DB-3B and IL-4. Over time I tend the favor the long range types over the fast ones, so the Turn 1 losses in that respect were not particularly meaningful.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

With the Axis opening moves documented in so many AARs, I don't know that I can tell much of an opponents skill level from it. MarauderPL may be an excellent player but time will reveal the answer to that.

This is so true and an excellent observation.