Scenario Beta Version - Salerno Counterattack

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Scenario Beta Version - Salerno Counterattack

Post by UP844 »

After a long time, I found the time and inspiration to make a new scenario.

It is based on a Command Decision scenario I found on the Net, that depicted the 16th Panzer counterattack at Salerno, with some changes to port it in ToTH (see below).

I have already played it a number of time, and I would like to know the opinion of someone that does not know all the inner mechanics of the scenario.

I think the current game length (16 turns) is not enough to allow the Germans to accomplish their mission (they must take the village of Persano, the Tobacco Factory and the three roads leading to the beaches). In a previous version I allowed Germans to exit from the map, but then U.S. units ran to the exit hexes, even though there were 23 VP hexes on the map [:(].

I am also not entirely satisfied of the way the AI deploys it troops: perhaps more setup zones are required.

I had to do some changes to the OOB, for various reasons. For you rivet counters out ther, I had replaced:
1) a Pz III Flamm with a Pz IIIN (no Pz III Flamm in ToTH)
2) two towed PaK 40 with two Marder III M (the PaK 40 is present in ToTH, but cannot be carried/towed and manhandled ordnance moves very, very slow, 3 hexes every 2 turns at best; the Marders, moreover, have a very limited allowance of HE rounds and are very vulnerable to HE and small arms fire)
3) a 4.2" mortar with a 75mm Pack howitzer (the 4.2" is present among ToTH ordnance, but has such a long minimum range - 14 hexes - I extended the visibility to 20 hexes to give it some chance to fire. As a consequence, lag soon became unacceptable.

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RE: Scenario Beta Version - Salerno Counterattack

Post by DoubleDeuce »

Is this one using the map you posted a while back?
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RE: Scenario Beta Version - Salerno Counterattack

Post by UP844 »

No, that map was for the Battle for Cecina, a clash between saw the 34th Inf Div and the 752nd Tank Bn vs. the 16th SS PzGr Div and the 504th Tiger Bn.

That will be a campaign game, since the battle lasted several days (from June 30 to July 2, 1944). Since it is 100% full project of mine (unlike "Salerno Counterattack" it is at a much less advanced stage than this: I'm still attempting to locate a 1940 map of the area).
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RE: Scenario Beta Version - Salerno Counterattack

Post by UP844 »

I'm looking for advice about an issue I have been unable to solve.

The 191st Tank Bn (5 M4 + 1 M10) enters starting on Turn 2 (dr <= Game Turn).

As a human player, I usually move it in the plain just west of Persano, waiting for any Panzers trying to attack from the North (KG Kleine Limburg).

When the AI plays the Americans, however, the AFVs stand still in their entry hex until the German takes a VP hex. They fire on any German unit showing, but they do not move at all. As soon as the German take a VP hex (usually, a building hex in Persano) they start moving to retake it (green arrow) and get slaughtered (explosion sign) by the German tanks of KG Kleine Limburg, which in the meantime have moved as shown by the cyan arrows.

I have tried putting an unpossessed VP hex at the point marked with the explosion: the tanks move towards it, but they are not the only one, since all other US units also move in that direction. (NOTE: the infantry has no "DEFEND HEX X,Y" orders - which would supposedly prevent them from moving - since AI deployment does not specify a specific hex for every unit. The deployment area includes a large number of set-up hexes to make the scenario as replayable as possible, and this feature works fine).

I also tried giving the AFVs an "ATTACK" order, but this doesn't work: they remain parked at the edge of the map, just like they do with the default "NOT DEFINED" order.

Ideas, anyone?

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RE: Scenario Beta Version - Salerno Counterattack

Post by DoubleDeuce »

I have been playing the scenario, HARD, with FoW enabled so have not seen the US forces behavior outside of what I have spotted. It's pretty large so am only a few turns in and I am thinking I might restart it with FoW disabled so I can watch their activity???
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RE: Scenario Beta Version - Salerno Counterattack

Post by UP844 »

First, thanks for testing the scenario beta! [&o]

In the various test games I played, the American AFVs enter the map as intended (a small window briefly appears - to notify failed deployment, I presume - during the reinforcement segments of Turn 2 and after). Once they have entered the map, however, the AFVs remain in their map edge hexes: I never heard them moving.

When the Germans take the first VP hex, usually in Persano, the AFVs wake up and start moving to attack the now enemy-controlled VP. This can occur as early as Turn #5 (if the Engineers opt to attack Persano) or as late as turn #8 (after the Panzer Grenadiers break through the 2/143rd; sometimes a few German AFVs can manage to get into range and shell Persano as early as turn #5, but this does not activate the American AFVs).

When the above requirement is met, all the American units not occupying VP hexes(* see note) start moving toward the enemy-occupied VP hex. The 1/157th infantry usually sets up in Persano and in the Tobacco Factory, so the do not move. Any Good Order survivors of the 2/143rd might also attempt moving back to Persano(* see note). The AI American /tank move ends in the plain between Persano and the Tobacco Factory ridge.

(*) I have not given "DEFEND X,Y" orders to the American infantry so that the AI sets up its unit differently every time the scenario is launched: I place a high value on the replayability of a scenario. This also means that sometimes the AI will come up with a stupid deployment (like the time I managed to slip the 222 through the American positions and started shelling Persano - with a 20mm [:D] - on turn 5) and some other times it will devise a very tough deployment.



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RE: Scenario Beta Version - Salerno Counterattack

Post by DoubleDeuce »

I ended with a Major German Victory in turn 14 and I saw what are saying. There are several American vehicles that, after they deploy, they sit along the map edge until a VP location is taken, then they wake up.
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RE: Scenario Beta Version - Salerno Counterattack

Post by DoubleDeuce »

I think there are enough turns IF the German player makes use of a few Double Time moves. He cannot take his sweet time advancing, that's for sure.
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RE: Scenario Beta Version - Salerno Counterattack

Post by UP844 »

I have done a bit of historical research; the KG Kleine Limburg attacked Persano, then split into three directions:
1) straight south towards the beaches (right border of the map)
2) west, towards the tobacco factory
3) east, towards the rear of the 2/143rd (attempting to surround it; the 2/143rd managed to escape south)

I think adding some VP hexes (worth very few VP each) in the 2/143rd area and making them easy to take for the German could solve the issue. If I put the VP hexes into trench hexes this should also avoid a mad rush to retake them... I'd have to make a few experiments.

In the meantime, I have just tested v.05 (Pz IV H's, added 1 Marder to 1./71 PzGr, reworked American SW allotment) playing the Americans, which ended in a smashing (perhaps too smashing) US victory.

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RE: Scenario Beta Version - Salerno Counterattack

Post by UP844 »

I need a clarification about SW Allocation, since I have been unable to find information on the Internet [:(].

How are fractional values treated? In the scenario there are 22 US squads-equivalents. For 1943, this means:
4.00 leaders; no fractions, so no extra D leader [:(].

3.14 LMG (I suppose these are the MMGs in ToTH)
2.00 MMG (I suppose these are the HMGs in ToTH)
1.57 .50 cal HMG
3.14 60mm Mtr
3.14 BAZ43

I have rounded the fractional part to the nearest number; is this correct? [&:]

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RE: Scenario Beta Version - Salerno Counterattack

Post by Paullus »

Making a scenario work is sometimes time consuming. Especially is some situations. Regarding the SW allocation I usually round the fraction to nearest number and during the playtest it shows if more is needed ot less.

Tuning the AI behavior is dependent on many factors. Daylight visibility, AI Attitude, AI Special cmd, the Human strength in weapons, randomness built into the system and more. Perhaps change AI attitude to Advance and then give special commands Attack Hex to hexes you want them to defend besides the VP. Could work.
For my part, I shall do my duty as a general; I shall see to it that you are given the chance of a successful action. /Lucius Aemilius Paullus
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RE: Scenario Beta Version - Salerno Counterattack

Post by UP844 »

I have made several test games: I tried setting the AI attitude to Advance and giving the AFVs the "ATTACK HEX" order: the AFVs move to the desired location, but then they stayed still there even while the Germans conquered several VP hexes.

Version 0.6 is attached below.

Changes from version 0.4:
Game length shortened to 14 turns.
Revised SW allocation for Americans (they now have many more MGs)
Revised entry area for the 191st Tank Bn, with the addition of 4 entry hexes on the lower right map edge
Revised Leader allocation for Germans (added a D leader to group #3, this should improve mobility and C&C for this group)
Added a Marder III to the German group #2 (actually, it should be a towed PaK 40; it has a very small impact on the scenario anyway)

I am still thinking about:
the addition of AI-only extra units;
the addition of dedicated set-up areas for American 81mm mortars and AT guns;
the addition of a ford near the blown bridge on the Calore river: this will add some extra tactical options for both sides.
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RE: Scenario Beta Version - Salerno Counterattack

Post by UP844 »

Remember the Alamo!



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