War in the East Beta Update 1.11.03
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RE: War in the East Official Update 1.11.03
I read somewhere, probably in one of those books titled like 'Why the Allies Won' that in terms of birth rates, age breakdown, manpower resources etc the worst possible time to invade the USSR was the 1940s. And the Soviets knew this large pool of potential soldiers was there.
I would have thought that any official Soviet figures would be a minimum. Also the Soviets were well known for rounding up any able bodied locals, giving them a weapon of some description and ordering them to the West.
I would have thought that any official Soviet figures would be a minimum. Also the Soviets were well known for rounding up any able bodied locals, giving them a weapon of some description and ordering them to the West.
Molotov : This we did not deserve.
Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.
C'est la guerre aérienne
Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.
C'est la guerre aérienne
- thedoctorking
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RE: War in the East Official Update 1.11.03
Yes, the estimate of 29,500,000 includes an estimated half a million recruits who were never registered officially because they got killed before any record was made of their presence. This was especially true of people living in places pocketed by the Axis or cities where the civilian population was required to remain and support Red Army defenses.
- thedoctorking
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RE: War in the East Official Update 1.11.03
Anyway, I concur with Chaos45 in calling for an increase in Soviet manpower production. I'd say it needs to be at least 10% higher to be historically accurate. I'd say the earlier multiples were probably accurate.
- GamesaurusRex
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RE: War in the East Official Update 1.11.03
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Chaos, you only ever list the Axis nerfs/Soviet buffs.
What about buffed Soviet AA guns? If you deattach them for cheap from cities when Axis is close you have quite nice SUs that weren't there before. Soviet gun numbers in recent versions are as high as never before. Not to mention that 1941 air supply has been nerfed because air bases nearby give no longer support when nearby.
What about fixed bug with cosntruction units not helping digging? Massively icreased HQBU cost and reducing rail modifier and minimally possible rail modifier?
From my exp so far the so called nerf of Soviet air force is not really one, exp gain seems as before so far, will wait how things develop over next turns in game vs. S-T though.
"Just learn the opening and learn how to manage fuel logistics" will not be sufficient IMO, a victory in 1941 requires a combination of many more factors.
Also, designing an optimised opening is not easy. If the Axis player invests 10 hours and more into developing an opening, the Soviet player has to answer with a similar commitment.
I can really recommend you to try and play the Axis side under a version with nerfed logistics vs. a strong Soviet player.
In addition, the key metric should be if and when Soviets can get to Berlin. From AARs Soviet players seem to be able to survive the fall of Leningrad/Moscow and take over the initiative.
Ewald... your Picture perfectly suits your fandom...
"AA guns"? ROFLMAO !
Neither the AA nor the entire Russian airforce is of any practical importance in this game as simulated and you know it. CV and MP on the ground is all that matters.
"Fixed bug of construction" ? More LOL !
You mean the one where they removed nearly all the engineering value from the Russian side for 1941 ?
Or are you referring to the "fixed" civilian help that maybe isn't fixed even yet ? Besides, we both know that Level 4 or 5 fortifications are still useless when garrisoned with "0" CV units.
(Pardon the rant... but you are really grasping at straws to throw at chaos45's comments.
"Real Life" is a game... THIS is war !
RE: War in the East Official Update 1.11.03
ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Chaos, you only ever list the Axis nerfs/Soviet buffs.
What about buffed Soviet AA guns? If you deattach them for cheap from cities when Axis is close you have quite nice SUs that weren't there before. Soviet gun numbers in recent versions are as high as never before. Not to mention that 1941 air supply has been nerfed because air bases nearby give no longer support when nearby.
What about fixed bug with cosntruction units not helping digging? Massively icreased HQBU cost and reducing rail modifier and minimally possible rail modifier?
From my exp so far the so called nerf of Soviet air force is not really one, exp gain seems as before so far, will wait how things develop over next turns in game vs. S-T though.
"Just learn the opening and learn how to manage fuel logistics" will not be sufficient IMO, a victory in 1941 requires a combination of many more factors.
Also, designing an optimised opening is not easy. If the Axis player invests 10 hours and more into developing an opening, the Soviet player has to answer with a similar commitment.
I can really recommend you to try and play the Axis side under a version with nerfed logistics vs. a strong Soviet player.
In addition, the key metric should be if and when Soviets can get to Berlin. From AARs Soviet players seem to be able to survive the fall of Leningrad/Moscow and take over the initiative.
Ewald... your Picture perfectly suits your fandom...
"AA guns"? ROFLMAO !
Neither the AA nor the entire Russian airforce is of any practical importance in this game as simulated and you know it. CV and MP on the ground is all that matters.
"Fixed bug of construction" ? More LOL !
You mean the one where they removed nearly all the engineering value from the Russian side for 1941 ?
Or are you referring to the "fixed" civilian help that maybe isn't fixed even yet ? Besides, we both know that Level 4 or 5 fortifications are still useless when garrisoned with "0" CV units.
(Pardon the rant... but you are really grasping at straws to throw at chaos45's comments.
To me it seems that EvK is simply pointing out some things that chaos doesn't list.
Contrary to what you have stated, AA guns have been buffed a lot in the latest patch for both sides (chaos himself has accepted that). So your argument, well, isn't an argument. The Soviet airforce is enough to keep the LW in check and after 1943 to spam bomb everything you feel like as the Soviets. If you don't like playing the air, that's your personal choice, has nothing to do with the VVS ''not having any practical importance''.
Again, you are cherrypicking what you like. Why didn't you comment on the increased HQ BuildUp costs or the rail modifier?
Then don't garrison important cities with 0 CV units. There, problem fixed. Fort levels do their job when employed correctly.
The idea here is to provide the devs with a viewpoint from the Axis side, since the viewpoint that chaos45 has given is that of the Soviet side.
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- GamesaurusRex
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RE: War in the East Official Update 1.11.03
No offense xhoel... but you missed the point. Ground CV is what takes and holds ground in this game...
and that is the ONLY determinant factor for either the Germans or the Russians in reaching their objectives.
If the Russians have sufficient CV to prevent German penetrations.
Pockets will not be achieved and the German will get run over in the long run. (Superior German MP does nothing if it hits a brick wall of CV.)
If the Russians do not have sufficient CV... they will die in pockets before the first year is out. (and actually in this game's current state you will have
to make adjustments to the initial Russian morale settings to get a game in which the Russian can do anything other than beat a hasty retreat in 1941.)
In either case, it is the CV that dictates the outcome. The air forces are merely window dressing.
and that is the ONLY determinant factor for either the Germans or the Russians in reaching their objectives.
If the Russians have sufficient CV to prevent German penetrations.
Pockets will not be achieved and the German will get run over in the long run. (Superior German MP does nothing if it hits a brick wall of CV.)
If the Russians do not have sufficient CV... they will die in pockets before the first year is out. (and actually in this game's current state you will have
to make adjustments to the initial Russian morale settings to get a game in which the Russian can do anything other than beat a hasty retreat in 1941.)
In either case, it is the CV that dictates the outcome. The air forces are merely window dressing.
"Real Life" is a game... THIS is war !
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RE: War in the East Official Update 1.11.03
I would have to say it's not all about the CV shown onmap at all I would say the modified CV is the most important in the case you are trying to show ultimately which is dictated by ALOT more than what is shown on the stacks onmap
Have you ever seen those battles with 600 CV vs 600 CV and you can still reliably win the battles or when you get big battles with 3:1 odds and easy wins?
Well that's because of efficienct use of SU and the air arm
Another huge factor is a units supply which some people can miss as if you fight a unit with low ammo you can effectively ensure it's near half as effective as the CV dictates on the map
There's more but these are generally the most impactful
If you just look at the CV on map then you are going to have a hard time winning many battles against someone who understands these concepts
Have you ever seen those battles with 600 CV vs 600 CV and you can still reliably win the battles or when you get big battles with 3:1 odds and easy wins?
Well that's because of efficienct use of SU and the air arm
Another huge factor is a units supply which some people can miss as if you fight a unit with low ammo you can effectively ensure it's near half as effective as the CV dictates on the map
There's more but these are generally the most impactful
If you just look at the CV on map then you are going to have a hard time winning many battles against someone who understands these concepts
- EwaldvonKleist
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RE: War in the East Official Update 1.11.03
@GamesaurusRex: First of all, I have played both sides equally often and with equal enjoyment in both WitE and WitE 2 so far. If you look at my opponents wanted threads, I leave the opponent choose the side and often also of the version. It was me who has reported the construction unit bug (SUs not helping with construction), and I have also left comments on Axis supply techniques I find questionable. I also lobbied to increase the limits for fort construction lvl 2 from 3 to 4hexagons and for one from 20 to 25 as compared tot he first plans, also helping the Soviets. So calling me Axis fan boy is simply wrong.
Not all, but many of the most vocal people about Soviet nerfs/Axis buffs hardly ever play the Axis side.
Re Soviet air force, it is NOT insignificant, neither its fighter arm nor its bomber arm. just read AARs on it. Of course the ground war is more important, but it has an influence.
Re Soviet AA guns: The AA units form nice support units, which fire during the combat phase.
I agree that it is CV what matters, but what S-T says influences CV considerably.
Really, play Axis vs. a very good+ Soviet player and design not messy super lvov pocket on your own, suddenly things don't look easy for the Axis anymore.
Not all, but many of the most vocal people about Soviet nerfs/Axis buffs hardly ever play the Axis side.
Re Soviet air force, it is NOT insignificant, neither its fighter arm nor its bomber arm. just read AARs on it. Of course the ground war is more important, but it has an influence.
Re Soviet AA guns: The AA units form nice support units, which fire during the combat phase.
I agree that it is CV what matters, but what S-T says influences CV considerably.
Really, play Axis vs. a very good+ Soviet player and design not messy super lvov pocket on your own, suddenly things don't look easy for the Axis anymore.
The Library of Gary Grigsby's War in the East resources.
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RE: War in the East Official Update 1.11.03
Small interface error. The City screen only says ASSIGN support but as you can also build AA units at a City it should say ASSIGN/FORM.
RE: War in the East Official Update 1.11.03
One thing that REALLY needs to get fixed is this aircraft group range.
Get rid of this hex conversion ratio ASAP. Nobody is going to understand this when they first play the game under these conditions. Why was it put there in the first place?
It simply needs to be 0=no fly, 1=1 hex range, 2=2 hex range, etc. and * = maximum range.
Get rid of this hex conversion ratio ASAP. Nobody is going to understand this when they first play the game under these conditions. Why was it put there in the first place?
It simply needs to be 0=no fly, 1=1 hex range, 2=2 hex range, etc. and * = maximum range.
RE: War in the East Official Update 1.11.03
ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
One thing that REALLY needs to get fixed is this aircraft group range.
Get rid of this hex conversion ratio ASAP. Nobody is going to understand this when they first play the game under these conditions. Why was it put there in the first place?
It simply needs to be 0=no fly, 1=1 hex range, 2=2 hex range, etc. and * = maximum range.
+1
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