Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 is a turn-based World War II strategy game stretching across the entire Eastern Front. Gamers can engage in an epic campaign, including division-sized battles with realistic and historical terrain, weather, orders of battle, logistics and combat results.

The critically and fan-acclaimed Eastern Front mega-game Gary Grigsby’s War in the East just got bigger and better with Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: Don to the Danube! This expansion to the award-winning War in the East comes with a wide array of later war scenarios ranging from short but intense 6 turn bouts like the Battle for Kharkov (1942) to immense 37-turn engagements taking place across multiple nations like Drama on the Danube (Summer 1944 – Spring 1945).

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Chris21wen
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Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by Chris21wen »

It says a 'town hex must have a population of at least two'.

Later it says 'Each eligible town, city or urban hex will calculate a City Labor Value (CLV) based on the population of the hex divided by six for Soviets and twelve for Axis, rounded down.'

From this, any location with <6 population will have a zero CLV. I'm assuming that this only applies to hexes away from the population area and not the population area itself.

So what would the help value for a town with population of 2 be in it's own hex (120 or some fraction of it?)



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Telemecus
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by Telemecus »

I was interested in seeing the answer to this too. At least so far I had assumed you only get civilian labour assistance from big places like Leningrad and Moscow, and never considered there was any from towns at all.

It may be though that if there is, it has been too insignificant for any players to consider it in their gameplay?
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Chris21wen
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

I was interested in seeing the answer to this too. At least so far I had assumed you only get civilian labour assistance from big places like Leningrad and Moscow, and never considered there was any from towns at all.

It may be though that if there is, it has been too insignificant for any players to consider it in their gameplay?

Still waiting for a difinitive answer.

It says this in 15.3.2.3.

'For example, Leningrad with a population of 40 has a CLV of 6 for the Soviet Player (40/6 rounded down). This means Leningrad will send out labor teams to hexes up to 6 hexes away from the city hex as soon as there is an enemy unit within 25 hexes. Each team will have a basic construction value of 120 (6x20). Up to 6 different hexes may receive help per turn from a Leningrad labor team....'

From this I'm assuming that a population centre of 6 will have a range of 1 hex and a construction value of 20 (1 x 20). A town of 2 would have a range of zero (it's hex) and a constuction valus of 2/6 x 20 = 6 or 7.

Does that sound reasonable?
chaos45
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by chaos45 »

sounds right in the rules, but not sure its working that way in the game as I know it doesn't seem my soviets are digging that fast in the current game under patch .03 for sure.

A value of 120 per hex is like a lvl 1 fort per turn I haven't seen my forts near Moscow/Leningrad building anything like that fast unless there is also a really good unit in the hex.
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: chaos45

sounds right in the rules, but not sure its working that way in the game as I know it doesn't seem my soviets are digging that fast in the current game under patch .03 for sure.

A value of 120 per hex is like a lvl 1 fort per turn I haven't seen my forts near Moscow/Leningrad building anything like that fast unless there is also a really good unit in the hex.

Don't forget fort building slows down the higher the fort level gets.
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thedoctorking
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by thedoctorking »

Still, if Leningrad were providing 120 points to every hex within six, you would expect that the forts would be level 1 on turn 1 and 2 on turn 2 once you put a unit there (120 x 3 is plenty to complete a level 1 in one turn, only needs like 18. For level 2, you need 50. For level 3, you need 150 so the level 3 fort would be completed four turns after you start digging).
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xhoel
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by xhoel »

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Still, if Leningrad were providing 120 points to every hex within six, you would expect that the forts would be level 1 on turn 1 and 2 on turn 2 once you put a unit there (120 x 3 is plenty to complete a level 1 in one turn, only needs like 18. For level 2, you need 50. For level 3, you need 150 so the level 3 fort would be completed four turns after you start digging).

Enemy needs to be withing 25 hexes for that to happen.
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thedoctorking
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by thedoctorking »

Yeah, the Germans are going to be within 25 hexes after turn 1, or turn 2 at the latest. I usually park a line of divisions along the Neva and in Shlisselburg on turn 3 and I've never gotten to level 3 forts before the fascist swine get there.
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morvael
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by morvael »

I'll get you the answer soon.
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M60A3TTS
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by M60A3TTS »

Don't forget this:

In addition, if there are no enemy units within twelve hexes of the city, the construction value of each team is divided by four.
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morvael
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by morvael »

In the current version rounding up is used.
But I have already found and fixed two bugs (one remains) while reviewing the procedure.
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Still, if Leningrad were providing 120 points to every hex within six, you would expect that the forts would be level 1 on turn 1 and 2 on turn 2 once you put a unit there (120 x 3 is plenty to complete a level 1 in one turn, only needs like 18. For level 2, you need 50. For level 3, you need 150 so the level 3 fort would be completed four turns after you start digging).


Not how I read it. It's 120 points per team in Lenningrad and up to 6 different hexes can receive help per team, with a max range of 6 hex away. Therefore if 6 are being worked on then the help is only 20 per hex.

That's my interpretation anyway.
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thedoctorking
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by thedoctorking »

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Still, if Leningrad were providing 120 points to every hex within six, you would expect that the forts would be level 1 on turn 1 and 2 on turn 2 once you put a unit there (120 x 3 is plenty to complete a level 1 in one turn, only needs like 18. For level 2, you need 50. For level 3, you need 150 so the level 3 fort would be completed four turns after you start digging).


Not how I read it. It's 120 points per team in Lenningrad and up to 6 different hexes can receive help per team, with a max range of 6 hex away. Therefore if 6 are being worked on then the help is only 20 per hex.

That's my interpretation anyway.
That makes sense now.
How does the system decide which six hexes get help? Because it would be really useful to be able to specify where the helpers should go. I'd send every last one of them to Shlissleburg.
chaos45
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by chaos45 »

ahh so yet again something was bugged/changed under the hood that reduced the city assist to digging in lol.....

Its been amazing playing once in awhile compared to all the time and looking back at past games and going WTF happened the soviets....they are horrible now. It used to still be a close game now its just over the top with blitzkrieg in 1941, German wet dream is the 1941 that plays out in this game now.
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morvael
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by morvael »

Spent few hours to make the code follow the rules as written, and as I understand them, fixing a few bugs in the process. There is a minimum of 1 team for cities with population 2-5. Each team has construction value of 20xCVL (and a minimum of 20), so for small cities it will be 1 team with 20CV, for Leningrad it will be 6 teams with 120CV each.
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morvael
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by morvael »

Hex selection could be improved, it just goes from NW corner to SE corner randomly selecting hex to build a fort in, starting with those closer to enemy (minimum range is 2, so they won't build next to enemy). The way it goes means the region facing the Finns has biggest chance to see fort construction...
chaos45
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by chaos45 »

Maybe just change code to SE to NW would be the easiest way to fix it for selection of hexes?
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morvael
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by morvael »

It will be better to prepare a list of eligible hexes sorted by score based on weighted factors and pick best. Might slow down the process, because it would be best to find out where the strongest enemy are.
chaos45
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by chaos45 »

if the game can do that...in general tho a south to north scrub would in general be effective I think...even for Moscow.

You the programming genius Im the guy just giving suggestions based on play results [8D]
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morvael
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RE: Civilian Labor Assistance clarification

Post by morvael »

Guess it must be the other way for the Germans :-) best to add priorities, it won't be very hard to do.

Had this one idea today that could make city battles longer affairs. As long as fort after combat will remain at level 4 or 5 the defender will win.
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