War over Gold?

[RangerJoe]

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

FWIW the reports I read said that talk of gold on the ship is pure speculation. Further, some good arguments were given against it. Notably, why would the Russians send gold by ship through a war zone instead of sending it by rail to Vladivostok?
They used the gold during the voyage for port fees. They may also have used the gold for food, coal and other sundry items such as bailing out the crew after getting arrested at the houses of ill repute.



also, why send it in one of your oldest, slowest clunker?
It was guarding the merchants against any ship breaking through the main battle fleet. Therefore, it would less like to be engaged and lost during a fleet action. Like in American and Canadian football, the biggest and strongest players protect the weaker ones who carry the ball.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Now 130 Billion USD is a lot of money, so who gets the booty?

Besides, nobody (me included [:)]) did the necessary math. 1 metric ton of gold is currently worth about $40 mln. Which means that the old clunker should've carried 130bln/40mln = 3250 tons of gold. Which is hardly possible for a ship of 5800 tons tonnage.

Not to mention that the whole gold reserves of Russian Empire that went missing after the revolution were worth approximately $3 bln current.

[RangerJoe]

1 ounce of gold weighs more than an ounce of lead.

1 pound of lead weighs more than a pound of gold.

Are you using the proper measurements?

[MakeeLearn]

"The South Korean treasure hunting company, Shinil Group, and international experts located it 1,400 feet (430 m) below the surface. A joint operation by companies from China, Canada and the UK.

They have pledged to give 50% of the gold back to Russia, where a campaign group has demanded the full amount.

The Shinil Group claims they saw “treasure box” among the wreckage. There is no confirmation the Donskoi really was carrying the reported treasure. In addition to payments to the modern Russian government, the salvagers promise to further invest money in a railroad line linking North Korea, South Korea, and Russia.

A small percentage (10%) will also be invested in tourism projects on Ulleungdo Island, including a museum dedicated to the vessel."


"BBC was a bit more skeptical: "Rumours persist that the Donskoi was carrying the gold for Russia's Pacific Fleet, used to pay crew salaries and docking fees - gold which would be worth billions of dollars if found today.
But no proof exists that the ship carried gold, with academics raising doubts that a warship would carry such valuable cargo."

[Bearcat2]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

1 ounce of gold weighs more than an ounce of lead.

1 pound of lead weighs more than a pound of gold.

Are you using the proper measurements?

An ounce is a ounce; a pound is a pound

A TROY ounce of gold weighs more than a ounce of lead
A pound of lead weighs more than a TROY pound of gold.

[Chickenboy]

So many unwarranted assumptions, so little time.

1. The gold is probably not there. Or if it is, it's a pittance.
2. The company is probably inflating expectations to stoke public interest and (presumably) increase the value of their salvage company.
3. If the company provides ample proof of location, the Russians will just take it for themselves and give them exactly 0.0% of the proceeds.
4. Since there's probably nothing worth a major expedition there, no one will go to war over it with anyone.
5. There will be no railroad or museum built with non-existent proceeds.

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

So many unwarranted assumptions, so little time.

1. The gold is probably not there. Or if it is, it's a pittance.
2. The company is probably inflating expectations to stoke public interest and (presumably) increase the value of their salvage company.
3. If the company provides ample proof of location, the Russians will just take it for themselves and give them exactly 0.0% of the proceeds.
4. Since there's probably nothing worth a major expedition there, no one will go to war over it with anyone.
5. There will be no railroad or museum built with non-existent proceeds.

Way to kill a thread dude.[:D]

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

So many unwarranted assumptions, so little time.

1. The gold is probably not there. Or if it is, it's a pittance.
2. The company is probably inflating expectations to stoke public interest and (presumably) increase the value of their salvage company.
3. If the company provides ample proof of location, the Russians will just take it for themselves and give them exactly 0.0% of the proceeds.
4. Since there's probably nothing worth a major expedition there, no one will go to war over it with anyone.
5. There will be no railroad or museum built with non-existent proceeds.

One thing not mentioned above is that by 1905 the international banking system was more than sophisticated enough to obviate the need to carry bullion to pay for the costs of the trip.

Alfred

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

So many unwarranted assumptions, so little time.

1. The gold is probably not there. Or if it is, it's a pittance.
2. The company is probably inflating expectations to stoke public interest and (presumably) increase the value of their salvage company.
3. If the company provides ample proof of location, the Russians will just take it for themselves and give them exactly 0.0% of the proceeds.
4. Since there's probably nothing worth a major expedition there, no one will go to war over it with anyone.
5. There will be no railroad or museum built with non-existent proceeds.

The wreck is only a mile from South Korean territory. I doubt the Russians would shove them aside and take possession of the wreck. Maybe they could lease the Glomar Explorer from the CIA to lift the whole thing up! [:D]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

So many unwarranted assumptions, so little time.

1. The gold is probably not there. Or if it is, it's a pittance.
2. The company is probably inflating expectations to stoke public interest and (presumably) increase the value of their salvage company.
3. If the company provides ample proof of location, the Russians will just take it for themselves and give them exactly 0.0% of the proceeds.
4. Since there's probably nothing worth a major expedition there, no one will go to war over it with anyone.
5. There will be no railroad or museum built with non-existent proceeds.

The wreck is only a mile from South Korean territory. I doubt the Russians would shove them aside and take possession of the wreck. Maybe they could lease the Glomar Explorer from the CIA to lift the whole thing up! [:D]

At only 1400 feet of depth, I reckon that they could probably reach deep into their bag of dirty tricks if it was worthwhile. But we shouldn't lease the Glomar Explorer to them. Unless they are the highest bidder of the three, of course. [;)]

[Jorge_Stanbury]

[/quote]

One thing not mentioned above is that by 1905 the international banking system was more than sophisticated enough to obviate the need to carry bullion to pay for the costs of the trip.

Alfred
[/quote]

Supply/ logistics were also sophisticated; the Tzar paid a German company, the Hamburg-American line, to supply coal steamers all across the voyage, this to avoid the issue of neutral countries declining to sell coal in their ports.

He also hired Moisei Ginsburg, a "military contractor", to cater for all other supply needs. Gainsburg's company was, according to C. Pleshakov book's The Tzar's last armada, "a floating supermarket, he could deliver food or boots or books or soap, depending on what the client ordered (...) Ginsburg was issue credit for 10 million rubles. He promised to supply the squadron with all the essentials"

So this is not a Magellan's era voyage, no real need for carrying gold