The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Two CVE divisions of 8 ships each would have been more than enough to safely escort the vulnerables back to safety....

If I'd seen two TFs showing CV/CVE, with search as it is in this game, I'd not have tried this at all. Often the identity of task forces is so obscured by massive numbers that I'm wary if I see any indication of massed air power. In this case I saw a bunch of transports and only one TF that looked like CVEs but no aircraft numbers showing. So that's what made my mind up to give it a shot.

So yes, you're absolutely right.

I was doing some testing on CV reaction ranges the other week and noticed this in one particularly concerning instance.

There was DL 10/10 on a USN TF, but it was spotted as without ANY aircraft at all and was showing "CL CL CL CL CL BB DD DD DD DD". [X(]

It was the at-game-start Enterprise CV TF.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by Lowpe »

Nicely done...[&o]

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by Lokasenna »

Now that's just sad.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

On the 18th the night was fairly quiet, which is what I'd hoped. Night search noticed a large Allied fleet moving into the Northern Pacific, but not too deep, so I hoped this meant there was no serious pursuit of the KB.

As day began the Allied sweepers hit Para hard. Lots of very big and skilled F4U-1D groups. Tough, but the CAP held and was there for the rest ...
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Morning Air attack on Paramushiro-jima , at 137,47

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 42,300 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 32
N1K2-J George x 26
N1K5-J George x 44
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 48
Ki-84b Frank x 49

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 42

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 4 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 3 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 3 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 39300 feet *
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

As the bombers came in escorted by some of the best Allied fighters, the CAP tore in. A lot of P-47D25 and P-38L lost in these battles, but they got to the 4Es early, which is what counted.
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Morning Air attack on Paramushiro-jima , at 137,47

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 18
N1K2-J George x 17
N1K5-J George x 30
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 36
Ki-84b Frank x 29

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 3
Liberator GR.VI x 9
B-24J Liberator x 21
P-38J Lightning x 7
P-38L Lightning x 28
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 40
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 3 damaged
Liberator GR.VI: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 destroyed, 14 damaged
P-38J Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-38L Lightning: 2 destroyed
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 9 destroyed
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 4 destroyed, 8 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak


Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 18

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Paramushiro-jima , at 137,47

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 67 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 11
N1K2-J George x 13
N1K5-J George x 26
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 27
Ki-84b Frank x 21

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 3
B-24J Liberator x 13
P-38L Lightning x 7
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 4
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 3 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged
P-38L Lightning: 3 destroyed
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 1 destroyed, 9 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak


Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

A few more trickles came in and were hit hard. Some of the unescorted 4E packages were almost completely annihilated.

In the end the base takes some damage, but if not hit again would be fixed up within a day. I'll bring all fighter groups back, as tomorrow will undoubtedly bring more carnage, and the numbers don't work to keep up a good showing here.


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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

The Allied bombardment shows that one Aussie division is seriously reduced, and guns and vehicles didn't fare well making me think those units are very disrupted. This bombardment was small, only maybe 1-2 units, so that also makes me think the others aren't in good shape now. Whatever did bombard isn't likely going to be participating much after this either with half of it's guns and a lot of it's support vehicles knocked out now.

The AV ratio is getting better for the Japanese, with the Allies under 1,800 AV now. The Japanese have only been reduced by about 100 and I'll aim to keep flying in more if possible. With the big base forces there is plenty of support here, plus two Army HQs in range. The Allies didn't bring an HQ along.
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Ground combat at Ketoi-jima (134,50)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1740 troops, 57 guns, 113 vehicles, Assault Value = 1792

Defending force 43744 troops, 477 guns, 15 vehicles, Assault Value = 1067

Japanese ground losses:
308 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 26 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 26 (17 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Vehicles lost 19 (19 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Assaulting units:
XI Corps Combat Engineer Regiment
3rd Marine Division
8th Australian Division
4th Marine Division
5th USMC Tank Battalion
706th Tank Battalion
5th Australian Division
1st Army Tank Regiment
1st Regiment
237th USN Base Force
2nd Medium Regiment
148th Field Artillery Battalion
4th Field Artillery Battalion
Provisional GMC Grp

Defending units:
45th Ind.Mixed Brigade
85th Naval Guard Unit
36th Ind.Mixed Brigade
71st Division
11th Ind.Mixed Regiment
109th Div /1
25th Special Base Force
3rd FF Const Unit
49th Mountain Gun Regiment
5th RF Gun Battalion
34th Const Co
1st Base Force
11th RF Gun Bn /1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

Here is where the Allied fleets ended up. The transports moved slightly East but some portion of the DS came to meet them, including numerous SCTFs and ASW.

I decided not to send in DDs or any surface forces based on this kind of possibility since I'll need them for ASW in the KB on the way back. The CVs are in an undisclosed location that is much more safe than yesterday. [;)]

Only ASW and minesweeping TFs seem left around Ketoi-Jima as some amphibs and others appear to be moving back to Shikuka.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

On the day the Allies lost almost 40 more 4Es and a handful of 2Es (to flak in Burma).

Fighter losses are somewhat even on the day, but few Japanese pilots were lost, thankfully.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

An interesting comparison of info screens from today and almost two weeks before.

The Allies have picked up a couple of bases (in Cent Pac I think) and the Japanese might have a few that need supply top-ups, as the points went down quite a lot. I'll have a look at that as it's the main area of gains toward the Allied VP ratio.

Air Losses are about equal, but the number of 4Es lost push the numbers up a bit.

The Allies have lost at least 36 ships for 483 VPs since invading Ketoi-Jima, and probably a few dozen more once they are admitted lost. The Japanese also lost about 40 ships, but mostly small fry and subs, for only 200 VPs.

The Allie lost 273 army device VPs, which is nice. The Japanese only lost 52 VPs.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]Oct 19, 1944[/font]
Big sweeps again on the 19th, but over Sapporo this time. The Allies get a slight advantage with the Corsairs, but the P-47s and Mustangs end up even and Hellcats end up negative to balance it out.

The retreat from Toungoo goes smoothly, with no extra units caught behind. This battle was a really positive way of wearing down some Allies units, attriting Allied bomber pools and buying time with virtually no losses to Japanese forces. [&o]

On the day air losses are nearly even, and again, over Sapporo, so only 26 Japanese pilots lost KIA or MIA. [:)]
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 19, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TF 521 encounters mine field at Ketoi-jima (134,50) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

10 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
YMS-246, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
YMS-241, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage


1st Base Force firing at YMS-246
14 mines cleared

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Sapporo , at 120,51

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 14 NM, estimated altitude 39,900 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 15
J2M5 Jack x 29
N1K2-J George x 3
N1K5-J George x 15
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 17
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 10
Ki-84a Frank x 71
Ki-84b Frank x 24

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 42

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 3 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
28 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 36900 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Sapporo , at 120,51

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 39,900 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 14
J2M5 Jack x 24
N1K2-J George x 3
N1K5-J George x 13
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 14
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 9
Ki-84a Frank x 69
Ki-84b Frank x 23

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 4 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 36900 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Sapporo , at 120,51

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 16 NM, estimated altitude 38,900 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 12
J2M5 Jack x 22
N1K2-J George x 3
N1K5-J George x 13
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 9
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 9
Ki-84a Frank x 64
Ki-84b Frank x 18

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 2 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 2 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 36900 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Sapporo , at 120,51

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 18 NM, estimated altitude 42,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 8
J2M5 Jack x 21
N1K2-J George x 3
N1K5-J George x 10
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 8
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 5
Ki-84a Frank x 55
Ki-84b Frank x 15

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 2 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Sapporo , at 120,51

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 69 NM, estimated altitude 43,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 3
J2M5 Jack x 20
N1K2-J George x 2
N1K5-J George x 9
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 8
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 5
Ki-84a Frank x 51
Ki-84b Frank x 14

Allied aircraft
P-51B Mustang x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-51B Mustang: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Sapporo , at 120,51

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 17 NM, estimated altitude 40,900 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 2
J2M5 Jack x 18
N1K2-J George x 2
N1K5-J George x 7
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 7
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 5
Ki-84a Frank x 45
Ki-84b Frank x 12

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Sapporo , at 120,51

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 44 NM, estimated altitude 39,300 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 2
J2M5 Jack x 18
N1K2-J George x 2
N1K5-J George x 6
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 5
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 5
Ki-84a Frank x 34
Ki-84b Frank x 11

Allied aircraft
F6F-5 Hellcat x 41

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 2 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F6F-5 Hellcat: 5 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x F6F-5 Hellcat sweeping at 37300 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Sapporo , at 120,51

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 39,800 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 2
J2M5 Jack x 16
N1K2-J George x 1
N1K5-J George x 5
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 5
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 4
Ki-84a Frank x 28
Ki-84b Frank x 6

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x F4U-1 Corsair sweeping at 36800 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Ketoi-jima (134,50)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1596 troops, 42 guns, 97 vehicles, Assault Value = 1826

Defending force 44541 troops, 486 guns, 15 vehicles, Assault Value = 1089

Japanese ground losses:
303 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 21 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled


Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 16 (9 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Vehicles lost 16 (10 destroyed, 6 disabled)


Assaulting units:
XI Corps Combat Engineer Regiment
3rd Marine Division
8th Australian Division
1st Army Tank Regiment
5th USMC Tank Battalion
706th Tank Battalion
4th Marine Division
5th Australian Division
1st Regiment
237th USN Base Force
148th Field Artillery Battalion
4th Field Artillery Battalion
2nd Medium Regiment
Provisional GMC Grp

Defending units:
71st Division
36th Ind.Mixed Brigade
11th Ind.Mixed Regiment
45th Ind.Mixed Brigade
85th Naval Guard Unit
109th Div /1
34th Const Co
1st Base Force
5th RF Gun Battalion
49th Mountain Gun Regiment
25th Special Base Force
3rd FF Const Unit
11th RF Gun Bn /1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]Oct 20, 1944[/font]
On the 20th the Allies continued to pound Ketoi-jima from the air. Lots of 2E B-25 and Venura runs, and a big 4E strike as well.

The sweeping actions moved south as the Allies took the bait at Chang Mai. I'd had my Southern air force stationed there for a good few days, getting stronger and more rested, and finally a few sweeps came in. Only two P-47 groups, and they didn't do well. The Japanese win today's minor action decisively. About 20 P-47s shot down fora only 12 Japanese planes lost.

The Toungoo force will settle in the jungle rough hex just South of that base and dig in. I'll move the partial division, brigade and the SNLF I'd added in back to Pegu since the three divisions and arty should be able to handle this defence easily for a long time, and they're much more durable than the smaller units. I'll have to feel out the right time to move back to Pegu and Rangoon, and I think it's not too far away. I'd like to see if the Allies try any more attacks on the front lines before that happens though. Pegu does have 6 forts and lots of AA so should hold as well as Prome did recently, and this side of the valley has the weaker Allied force.
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 20, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 32 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 34
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 23
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 23
Ki-84a Frank x 20
Ki-84b Frank x 18
Ki-100-I Tony x 23

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 4 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 44 NM, estimated altitude 43,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 31
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 21
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 21
Ki-84a Frank x 20
Ki-84b Frank x 17
Ki-100-I Tony x 22

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 6 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 56,51 (near Toungoo)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 35089 troops, 692 guns, 512 vehicles, Assault Value = 710

Defending force 65285 troops, 663 guns, 416 vehicles, Assault Value = 1496

Japanese ground losses:
102 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Assaulting units:
22nd (East African) Brigade
627th Tank Destroyer Battalion
11th Indian Division
9th Indian Division
150th RAC Regiment
72nd British Brigade
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
168th Field Artillery Regiment
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
XV Indian Corps
2nd Indian Heavy AA Regiment
134th Field Artillery Battalion
6th Medium Regiment
249th Field Artillery Battalion
86th Coast AA Regiment
101st Heavy AA Regiment
97th Field Artillery Battalion
181st Field Artillery Regiment
22nd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment

Defending units:
108th Division
2nd Guards Division
16th Division
21st Division
Yokosuka 2nd SNLF
26th Ind.Mixed Bde /1
3rd RF Gun Battalion
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
115th AA Regiment
125th AA Regiment
12th Air Defense AA Battalion
16th Army
57th Field AA Battalion
56th Field AA Battalion
8th RF Gun Battalion
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
53rd Const Co
Burma Area Army
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion
62nd JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]Oct 21, 1944[/font]
Big bombardments hit Ketoi preceding a DA, but only by the tanks it seems. It doesn't lower forts, but does disable about 60 infantry squads. Looks like all of his armor might be out of action now.

Massive sweeps at Chang Mai leave the Allies slightly ahead, but with big losses. The pools of P-51B and P-47D2 have to be getting low now. The Spit VIII continues to be tough, but a good number shot down on the day too.

I've decided to stay here instead of pulling back this time. See what happens tomorrow.
[font="Trebuchet MS"][/font]
[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 21, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Naval bombardment of Ketoi-jima at 134,50 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 damaged

10 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
BB Alabama
BC Renown
CA Vincennes
CA Quincy
CL Raleigh, Shell hits 2
DD Twining
DD Trathen
DD Tingey
DD The Sullivans
DD Thatcher
DD Stockham
DD Gatling
DD Erben

Japanese ground losses:
318 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 17 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 10 (1 destroyed, 9 disabled)


Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 20
Port hits 4
Port supply hits 2

OS2U-3 Kingfisher acting as spotter for BB Alabama
BB Alabama firing at 71st Division

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 45 NM, estimated altitude 47,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 61
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 23
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 23
Ki-84a Frank x 20
Ki-84b Frank x 40
Ki-100-I Tony x 23

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt I x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt I: 4 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 27 NM, estimated altitude 43,500 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 61
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 23
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 22
Ki-84a Frank x 20
Ki-84b Frank x 39
Ki-100-I Tony x 23

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 56
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 22
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 20
Ki-84a Frank x 18
Ki-84b Frank x 37
Ki-100-I Tony x 21

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt I x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt I: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 32 NM, estimated altitude 44,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 49
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 20
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 17
Ki-84a Frank x 16
Ki-84b Frank x 36
Ki-100-I Tony x 18

Allied aircraft
P-51B Mustang x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-51B Mustang: 4 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 11 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 43
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 20
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 12
Ki-84a Frank x 11
Ki-84b Frank x 31
Ki-100-I Tony x 15

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 3 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 47,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 36
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 20
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 7
Ki-84a Frank x 9
Ki-84b Frank x 30
Ki-100-I Tony x 13

Allied aircraft
P-51B Mustang x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-51B Mustang: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 34
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 15
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 7
Ki-84a Frank x 5
Ki-84b Frank x 28
Ki-100-I Tony x 10

Allied aircraft
P-40N5 Warhawk x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-40N5 Warhawk: 6 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 10 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 32
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 14
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 5
Ki-84a Frank x 4
Ki-84b Frank x 26
Ki-100-I Tony x 9

Allied aircraft
P-51B Mustang x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-51B Mustang: 7 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 61 NM, estimated altitude 41,500 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 28
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 6
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 3
Ki-84a Frank x 3
Ki-84b Frank x 17
Ki-100-I Tony x 6

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 45

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 3 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 6 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Spitfire VIII sweeping at 41500 feet
6 x Spitfire VIII sweeping at 41500 feet
5 x Spitfire VIII sweeping at 41500 feet *

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 53 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 19
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 6
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 1
Ki-84a Frank x 1
Ki-84b Frank x 7
Ki-100-I Tony x 4

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 6 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Ketoi-jima (134,50)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 13398 troops, 55 guns, 671 vehicles, Assault Value = 1867

Defending force 45389 troops, 496 guns, 15 vehicles, Assault Value = 1101

Allied adjusted assault: 207

Japanese adjusted defense: 2097

Allied assault odds: 1 to 10 (fort level 4)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
592 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 59 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled


Allied ground losses:
126 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 9 destroyed, 52 disabled
Engineers: 5 destroyed, 24 disabled
Guns lost 7 (6 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 74 (32 destroyed, 42 disabled)


Assaulting units:
5th USMC Tank Battalion
5th Australian Division
1st Army Tank Regiment
8th Australian Division
4th Marine Division
706th Tank Battalion
XI Corps Combat Engineer Regiment
3rd Marine Division
1st Regiment
4th Field Artillery Battalion
148th Field Artillery Battalion
2nd Medium Regiment
237th USN Base Force
Provisional GMC Grp

Defending units:
45th Ind.Mixed Brigade
36th Ind.Mixed Brigade
85th Naval Guard Unit
71st Division
11th Ind.Mixed Regiment
109th Div /1
3rd FF Const Unit
49th Mountain Gun Regiment
1st Base Force
5th RF Gun Battalion
34th Const Co
25th Special Base Force
11th RF Gun Bn /1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]

This screen is incomplete here, but you get the idea. George and Frank losses are highest, while the Tojo soldiers on.

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
User avatar
obvert
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

[font="Times New Roman"]Oct 22, 1944[/font]
The Allies attack again at Ketoi-jima. The engineers drop the forts to 3 and that more than anything is making this now a precarious position. The Allied forces did lose another chuck, with significant vehicle and infantry losses. With no army HQ in the hex (or near) I'm hoping the losses are hard to make up and the overstacking is a problem. I can't tell from my end now if it really is though. The Allies are attacking frequently, so either he's running these troops into the ground, or they're doing better than I'd hoped.

At Chang Mai the Allies keep coming as well, and his groups are depleted and end up not doing as well this day as the Japanese keep up the effective low CAP. Curious if he keeps going tomorrow, or if he can? Of the 160 planes that swept or LR CAPed Chang Mai today about 65 were shot down, and the groups were definitely not full strength. Our CAP should be okay, with about 150 fighters operational for tomorrow.

Dan's style is to go hard continually, and the late war Allies can handle this for some time, but I'm curious how long. How are his pilot pools? How are the airframe pools of the top fighters? If two of his best Marine divisions are on Ketoi-jima, what is prepped for the other Kuriles, or for Hokkaido bases?

At this point for me it's all about time, attrition of the production-limited Allied airframe pools, thinning of the best Allied pilots in the bomber and fighter pools, and weakening of strategic bombing assets. I haven't seen the B-29s in a long while, since they hit Paramushiro and lost some 15-20 for essentially delaying that base getting to level 7 forts (which will happen this week).

I'm hoping for more Kurile invasions, because even if they take out some troops, the Allies lose precious time and assets by taking them, and they're not bombing the industry or airframe production. Since June 6th when they landed at Shikuka the strat bombing VPs have levelled off and sit just above 3k (at 3,066) now in mid-October.
[font="Trebuchet MS"][/font]
[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 22, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 25
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 38
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 39
Ki-84a Frank x 19
Ki-84b Frank x 11
Ki-100-I Tony x 16

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 15
Spitfire VIII x 8
Thunderbolt I x 5
P-51B Mustang x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc Trop: 2 destroyed
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed
Thunderbolt I: 1 destroyed
P-51B Mustang: 1 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 70 NM, estimated altitude 46,500 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 25
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 37
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 35
Ki-84a Frank x 19
Ki-84b Frank x 11
Ki-100-I Tony x 14

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 8
Spitfire VIII x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 2 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIc Trop: 2 destroyed
Spitfire VIII: 4 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Spitfire VIII sweeping at 41500 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 46,500 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 24
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 34
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 26
Ki-84a Frank x 18
Ki-84b Frank x 10
Ki-100-I Tony x 12

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 58 NM, estimated altitude 45,500 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 21
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 31
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 24
Ki-84a Frank x 17
Ki-84b Frank x 10
Ki-100-I Tony x 11

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 44,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 20
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 28
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 21
Ki-84a Frank x 15
Ki-84b Frank x 10
Ki-100-I Tony x 10

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt I x 10
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 15
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 3
P-51B Mustang x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt I: 1 destroyed
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed
P-51B Mustang: 1 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Thunderbolt I sweeping at 42000 feet
4 x P-47D2 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet
2 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 18
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 20
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 17
Ki-84a Frank x 11
Ki-84b Frank x 9
Ki-100-I Tony x 9

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 14
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 3 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 3 destroyed


Aircraft Attacking:
6 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet
3 x P-47D2 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 59 NM, estimated altitude 47,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 12
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 13
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 13
Ki-84a Frank x 10
Ki-84b Frank x 7
Ki-100-I Tony x 9

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 5
P-51B Mustang x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
P-51B Mustang: 2 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chiang Mai , at 58,53

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 31 NM, estimated altitude 47,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 12
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 9
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 11
Ki-84a Frank x 10
Ki-84b Frank x 4
Ki-100-I Tony x 8

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 56,51 (near Toungoo)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 39881 troops, 739 guns, 824 vehicles, Assault Value = 3047

Defending force 60511 troops, 588 guns, 401 vehicles, Assault Value = 1408

Japanese ground losses:
148 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
14th Indian Division
11th Indian Division
22nd (East African) Brigade
72nd British Brigade
9th Indian Division
627th Tank Destroyer Battalion
150th RAC Regiment
6th Australian Division
50th Tank Brigade
2nd British Division
6th Chinese Corps
2/9th Field Regiment
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
XV Indian Corps
101st Heavy AA Regiment
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
97th Field Artillery Battalion
168th Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Indian Heavy AA Regiment
6th Medium Regiment
86th Coast AA Regiment
181st Field Artillery Regiment
134th Field Artillery Battalion
249th Field Artillery Battalion
22nd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment

Defending units:
2nd Guards Division
21st Division
16th Division
Yokosuka 2nd SNLF
26th Ind.Mixed Bde /1
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion
12th Air Defense AA Battalion
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
8th RF Gun Battalion
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Burma Area Army
115th AA Regiment
16th Army
3rd RF Gun Battalion
56th Field AA Battalion
125th AA Regiment
53rd Const Co
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
62nd JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Ketoi-jima (134,50)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 42833 troops, 525 guns, 904 vehicles, Assault Value = 1816

Defending force 44688 troops, 496 guns, 15 vehicles, Assault Value = 1048

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Allied adjusted assault: 300

Japanese adjusted defense: 2323

Allied assault odds: 1 to 7 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
660 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 69 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Guns lost 17 (1 destroyed, 16 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
2536 casualties reported
Squads: 39 destroyed, 162 disabled
Non Combat: 40 destroyed, 43 disabled
Engineers: 14 destroyed, 65 disabled
Guns lost 37 (6 destroyed, 31 disabled)
Vehicles lost 135 (67 destroyed, 68 disabled)


Assaulting units:
706th Tank Battalion
4th Marine Division
8th Australian Division
3rd Marine Division
5th USMC Tank Battalion
5th Australian Division
XI Corps Combat Engineer Regiment
1st Army Tank Regiment
1st Regiment
237th USN Base Force
4th Field Artillery Battalion
148th Field Artillery Battalion
2nd Medium Regiment
Provisional GMC Grp

Defending units:
11th Ind.Mixed Regiment
85th Naval Guard Unit
71st Division
45th Ind.Mixed Brigade
36th Ind.Mixed Brigade
109th Div /1
49th Mountain Gun Regiment
25th Special Base Force
5th RF Gun Battalion
1st Base Force
34th Const Co
3rd FF Const Unit
11th RF Gun Bn /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]

Seeing the Hurri IIc here is a sure sign the Allies are struggling for airframes.

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Alfred
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by Alfred »

ORIGINAL: obvert

... I'm hoping ... and the overstacking is a problem. I can't tell from my end now if it really is though...



...Ground combat at Ketoi-jima (134,50)

... Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 42833 troops, 525 guns, 904 vehicles, Assault Value = 1816

Defending force 44688 troops, 496 guns, 15 vehicles, Assault Value = 1048

...Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

...

Those troop numbers at Ketoi should not be a significant problem for the Allies. Overstacking a hex by 10-15% is not usually a major handicap. The increase in supply consumption is not that big that it imposes a significant strain on the supply movement routines. You need to be around the 35-50% overstacking level for it to be a significant strain on the standard routines. The CR shows there is no current supply malus associated with the current standard combat operations.

Where the 10-15% overstacking level is most likely to have an impact is on the ability of LCUs to take reinforcements. Here this is not relevant because the combat is on an island not owned by the Allies and with no "overland" link back to an Allied supply depot. As such the LCUs themselves will not contain the excess supply to permit the "buy" of replacement devices. Because there is no overland link back to an Allied supply depot what is critical is the ability of the Allies to regularly drop supply on to the beach or via paradrop. If the Allies can do that, they can easily cope with the extra supply consumption resulting from a 10-15% overstacking.

To win the battle of Ketoi Japan must prevent the resupply of the Allied troops. Grinding down the Allied AV by itself will not suffice as it can very quickly recover upon receipt of supply.

Alfred
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obvert
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: obvert

... I'm hoping ... and the overstacking is a problem. I can't tell from my end now if it really is though...



...Ground combat at Ketoi-jima (134,50)

... Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 42833 troops, 525 guns, 904 vehicles, Assault Value = 1816

Defending force 44688 troops, 496 guns, 15 vehicles, Assault Value = 1048

...Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

...

Those troop numbers at Ketoi should not be a significant problem for the Allies. Overstacking a hex by 10-15% is not usually a major handicap. The increase in supply consumption is not that big that it imposes a significant strain on the supply movement routines. You need to be around the 35-50% overstacking level for it to be a significant strain on the standard routines. The CR shows there is no current supply malus associated with the current standard combat operations.

Where the 10-15% overstacking level is most likely to have an impact is on the ability of LCUs to take reinforcements. Here this is not relevant because the combat is on an island not owned by the Allies and with no "overland" link back to an Allied supply depot. As such the LCUs themselves will not contain the excess supply to permit the "buy" of replacement devices. Because there is no overland link back to an Allied supply depot what is critical is the ability of the Allies to regularly drop supply on to the beach or via paradrop. If the Allies can do that, they can easily cope with the extra supply consumption resulting from a 10-15% overstacking.

To win the battle of Ketoi Japan must prevent the resupply of the Allied troops. Grinding down the Allied AV by itself will not suffice as it can very quickly recover upon receipt of supply.

Alfred

I counted all stacking for units involved (from another Allied game where they were at full TOE) and originally it was at least 20% overstacking (72k), but it may have reduced now as battles have taken their toll.

It won't be possible to stop resupply, as that would mean stopping the DS from sitting 1-2 hexes from the base. I didn't expect to win, but to possibly force reinforcement or more time to be taken than allocated for this op. He's chosen to go for one island presumably to reduce a threat to the LOC. I think only the lack of DS protection is a threat to his LOC, as I can't strike if it's in the neighbourhood.

It's going much faster than I'd like now, unfortunately. The presence of Shikuka and its bombing will make these battles faster in range, but hopefully will also deplete forces that wold otherwise be used for taking on the Home Islands proper. None of it is working on the economy of Japan right now, and that is the main key for me. The defence of the Kuriles is essentially the defence of the Marianas misplaced. I reinforced hoping he'd want to work on the area to secure his hold on the North, and so far so good. I'll take losses, but still may gain some time. We'll see.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
Alfred
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by Alfred »

obvert,
 
Not disputing your choices, merely pointing out game mechanics so that you don't suffer a misplaced level of confidence.
 
It is standard MO for your opponent to pack together multiple invasion forces within the same mass flotilla of ships.  One base will be invaded first and if everything is under control the other multiple invasion forces are then dropped off at the nearby enemy islands.  It would be consistent with this MO that the intention was to capture Ketoi and other Kurile islands using this mass flotilla of ships.  Finding stronger defences at Ketoi than perhaps anticipated he has dropped off onto Ketoi the other invasion forces.
 
Alfred  
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obvert
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

obvert,

Not disputing your choices, merely pointing out game mechanics so that you don't suffer a misplaced level of confidence.

It is standard MO for your opponent to pack together multiple invasion forces within the same mass flotilla of ships.  One base will be invaded first and if everything is under control the other multiple invasion forces are then dropped off at the nearby enemy islands.  It would be consistent with this MO that the intention was to capture Ketoi and other Kurile islands using this mass flotilla of ships.  Finding stronger defences at Ketoi than perhaps anticipated he has dropped off onto Ketoi the other invasion forces.

Alfred  

Could be.

I am certainly not confident about this one, but I am defiant that I want to cause some problems for the kitchen sink tactical choice. [:)]

The Frank Ki-84r is about to arrive and push production up as well, so Frank numbers should stabilise soon, and the Ki-83 is not far off. If he does take Ketoi, some possibilities will arise for sweeping too. Looking forward to that.
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

Post by ny59giants »

HQ pairing - I wonder why there doesn't seem to be a pairing of Corp/Army HQs with a Command HQ. I would have brought three Command HQs to Sakhalin initially. Dan should have 4 to 6 Corp/Army HQs in theater.
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