"Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

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RFalvo69
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"Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by RFalvo69 »

I'm re-reading "Executive Orders", by Tom Clancy. Published in 1996, the book imagines a Second Gulf War sparked by the death of Saddam Hussein and the unification of Iran with Iraq.

The last part is about the (for the mid '90s) "Second Gulf War", and it features all sort of actions on the sea, in the air and on land - with three American brigades fightning a vastly superior enemy (at least in numbers). This part is pure Clancy, with the action moving from the operational level to the single vehicle. It put me in the mood for a modern warfare game slightly more "zoomed in" than TOAW IV - i.e. where you can control from a battalion to a brigade, and "weapon range" is a factor (among many others, like the various vehicle specs.).

I heard about three games: Armored Task Force and Air Assault Task Force, by ProSimCo, and Point of Attack 2 by HPS. These three titles should be on the "realism" side of the curve (whereas Operation Flashpoint - which I do have and love) is slightly more on the middle of the curve (a good balance between game and realism).

Any opinion?

P.S. Reading Clancy always puts me in the mood for modern warfare. For example, I finally caved-in and "rented" Steel Beasts Pro 4.0 for $10. What a game [X(] I think that I'll end up buying it for good. The problem is that some games need commitment (another example is the DCS Flight Simulator series, where you must sign off your life to withe slavers just to master one aircraft - among the dozens available) and I like to do many things instead. It is the curse of having too many interests I guess [:)]

Edited for clarity.
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rico21
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by rico21 »

If you like Operation Flashpoint like me, you should try Flashpoint Campaigns.
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Blond_Knight
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by Blond_Knight »

I rented Steel Beasts for a month too and ended up buying it last week. There's a ton of cool content that's been added since Steel Beasts Gold. I mean holy crap! Time of day, weather, night, helo's, a bunch of vehicles, infantry, recovery vehicles, towing, and claymores!

The ProSimCo games were nice, but I believe the community who played them is gone. The main thing I never liked about those games was that morale didn't exist. So a tank assault gets wiped out leaving a single vehicle that doesn't retreat but keeps advancing. Though you could technically add conditions to model that in the editor.
That and that you can only play one side of a scenario without having to rebuild it from the other side.
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RFalvo69
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by RFalvo69 »

I'm inclined to buy Steel Beasts Pro, too. Mastering a tank is easier than mastering the whole cockpit of a F-15 or Su-27, and the contents are incredible.

IIRC, the head of ProSimCo, Pat Proctor, was recalled into the Army and served a tour of duty in Iraq. Maybe this didn't allow him to follow/manage the company at the same time.

BTW, I must be a bit cooked: there is Armored Brigade right here to consider! I played the various alphas when it was under independent development, and they were very promising. We will see.
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by Blond_Knight »

Its funny you mention Armored Brigade, playing the freeware version waiting for the Matrix release is what prompted me to get Steel Beasts.

Yes I think Pat did get deployed some years ago. Id love to see more content from them but I doubt that'll ever happen.

Meanwhile I led a Soviet tank company (T-62) assault last night against a platoon of M1's with infantry support and a couple ITV's in the SB editor. It was a glorious bloodbath.
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by Kuokkanen »

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

BTW, I must be a bit cooked: there is Armored Brigade right here to consider! I played the various alphas when it was under independent development, and they were very promising. We will see.
I was going to mention that game. Not necessarily my cup of tea, but it may be what you're looking for.
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by FOARP »

Steel Panthers 2 can still be downloaded from Abandonia and is still absolutely perfect for lining up large numbers of T-72s and T-62s against M1A1s. For something a bit more up-to-date you could always try Wargame: Red Dragon though it is a bit gamey.

The book isn't bad but not a patch on Red Storm Rising. Clancy's work took a real nose-dive after that book though - The Bear and the Dragon was rubbish - the ending was pure technological Deux Ex Machina (the Chinese army gets wiped out in a single series of air strikes with a super-weapon, not believable at all).

Harold Coyle's books are also a great read in a similar vein - Team Yankee, Bright Star, Code of Honor, Trial by Fire and (especially I think) Sword Point were all excellent. His work too has declined greatly.

Really, the 80's and 90's were the best era for Techno-Thrillers of this kind. Nowadays there's far too much use of hacking as a kind of super-weapon to resolve plot lines (particularly bad was 2017: War With Russia where NATO basically hacks the Russia ballistic missile system and switches it off) and the combat does not read like anything realistic.
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by Red2112 »

Remember that you can play Steel Beast from the map view too, thus your role as a TFC. I play MP every Sunday with the guys from Kanium VU, feel free to join us, just post on the forum multiplayer thread when a scenarios is up. Thats usually around thursday or friday towards the end of the week. Or send me a PM on the SB forum, same nick as here.

Here´s my latest vid of the BAE RG-31 Nyala...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS63tS6Mz5Y&t=19s

Red
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by demyansk »

What is the price of the Pro edition? Is it like the tank game with ?? On Steam, forgot the name by Graviteam.
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by RFalvo69 »

ORIGINAL: demyansk

What is the price of the Pro edition? Is it like the tank game with ?? On Steam, forgot the name by Graviteam.

I paid about $125, but, as I wrote, you can "rent" the full game for a month for $10, try it and decide if it is for you.

It is not on Steam: it is a realistic simulator of various types of military vehicles, with the possibility to command up to (I guess) a modern mechanised battalion from your tank by giving orders on an electronic map.

Here is the Wiki: http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php/Main_Page
"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by demyansk »

Thanks for the wiki, I can't remember the Graviteam game with older tanks but not Steel Fury. If it's a great game, then 125 is ok with me. I'll have to check some videos.
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by RFalvo69 »

ORIGINAL: demyansk

Thanks for the wiki, I can't remember the Graviteam game with older tanks but not Steel Fury. If it's a great game, then 125 is ok with me. I'll have to check some videos.

My first impression is really positive. What made the initial difference is the community. A game simply doesn't build a faithful and lively community if it is not both good and longeve. In a way, SB Pro is like DCS on land. Sadly my time with this simulator is still on the "sparse" side, but I'm happy to have bought it.
"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")
Red2112
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by Red2112 »

There are other rental options too, from one month, to four months, to a year. You then have the life-time license which gives you the right to use the current version in use at the time of purchase, you will be sent a USB CodeMeter stick which will store your license. Ugrades are usually about every two-three years or so and cost about $40, BUT with each upgrade youe get NEW vehicles, and other additions. Bug fixes are free for the current version. A new terrain engine is due sometime free of charge for v4.0 users. You are never forced to upgrade, which means that if you bought a life-time license for v4.0, then you can always play that version no matter what.

As a side note, I will say that the support found with SB is the BEST I have ever had to deal with! Everybody who has SB will say same, so it´s just not me.

You may mean "Operation Star" by Graviteam Tactics. No SB is not like that, and I have played "Steel Fury" with mods, and although with SB you can multi-crew as with SF, in SB a sabot (APFSDS) hit will knock your tank out with one shot! So be careful when against T-80´s! There´s many ways to play SB, you can be a platoon leader (PL) with 4 tanks under your command, you can be part of a platoon, you can have more then one platoon under your command or you can even be CO for the whole task force. It all depends on what´s been put in the scenario, and how the scenario creator has decided the OOB to be, what are the objectives etc. You can play via the map view as a "wargame", or you can jump in the TC view and command your tank/APC/Inf. or as gunner or any of the multicrew positions.

You also have a very good and easy to use editor. The AI is quite good, we usually play co-op against the AI in MP, sometimes we have a human play OPFOR, but as said the AI does a pretty good job of kicking your butt!

There are plenty of SP or MP missions on the forum to keep you busy, or you can join one of the MP sessions held almost every week via the forum. TGIF (Thank God Its Friday) are casual matches held every friday which you can join aswell or there are other more serious session which you are welcome to join too. The community is very good, most are ex or current military users, and some are not. As in most sim communities, you have "fanboys", "elite" geeks and the guy who knows it all, but overall you learn to cope with it, for the most part everybody is frendly and polite and willing to help and have fun.

The same way I can bitch about things I don´t find correct, I usually prise whats well done although it´s not perfect. In this case Steel Beast is the best game/sim I have ever played/dealt with in all regards.

Here´s a example were I play as XO from the map view (as a wargame) in one of our MP sessions. In this case we got our butt kicked by the AI...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5APHyQdK7Dc&t=547s

Red

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RFalvo69
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by RFalvo69 »

ORIGINAL: Red2112
Here´s a example were I play as XO from the map view (as a wargame) in one of our MP sessions. In this case we got our butt kicked by the AI...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5APHyQdK7Dc&t=547s

Red

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Lo! This is one of the videos I watched to see if the game was worth of my money [:)]
"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")
Red2112
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by Red2112 »

And back to the topic RFalvo69 (sorry), Iam reading Tom Clancy´s "The Bear and the Dragon" right now, which is why I lurked your thread [;)]

Not all of Tom Clamcy´s books are good, but as you said, when you read or are reading one of his books, you get in the mood of modern warfare! Not only that, I have been playing alot of the Red Storm titles from the first Rainbow 6, up to Rainbow Six Raven Shield, as well as the first Ghost Recon. I played all these alot (MP) when I was in the Seawolves community org. back in 2000. I even got together a small group of guys who play Steel Beast to form a squad in Rainbow Six Seige. Iam currently playing and supporting the folks at Blackfoot Studios who are the dev team who was behind Red Storm Entertainment which are working on the title "Ground Branch", a true FPS shooter in the spirte of the original Rainbow Six. It´s in pre-build but works, looks and feels real nice!

Yeap, Tom Clancy all over!

Red
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by Red2112 »

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

ORIGINAL: Red2112
Here´s a example were I play as XO from the map view (as a wargame) in one of our MP sessions. In this case we got our butt kicked by the AI...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5APHyQdK7Dc&t=547s

Red

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Lo! This is one of the videos I watched to see if the game was worth of my money [:)]


Glad I was of help! [:)]

If you need any help and/or want to join us Sunday night´s MP session 20:00hrs (GMT) send me a PM via the SB forum (Red2112) (just let me know who you are in case of a different alias).

Same goes for anybody here on Matrix!

Red
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demyansk
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by demyansk »

I meant the Steel Armor game, Blaze of War. Not as good?


It's the personal edition?
Red2112
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by Red2112 »

I have that too. Blaze of War is an alternative, but only two tanks and I don´t like the UI in any of Graviteam´s games. Although very out-dated, I rather play "Panzer Elite" with some mods. Even if it´s set in the WWII era, it´s still the most realistic tank sim aside from Steel Beast that I know of...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psqNoK9T1ik

Active mod community:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4028180/ww2-sim-panzer-elite-with-pp2-x-1-2#Post4028180

Panzer Elite Special Edition: (It´s on sale right now so you can´t beat the price!)
https://www.gog.com/game/panzer_elite_se

"Steel Beast Pro PE", PE stands for personal edition. The Professional edition is like $3,000, and I think it´s only sold to the army´s!

In SB you have tanks, APC´s and Infantry with MG´s or TOW´s that you can also man. You also have drones, off-map arty and helos, tho you can´t man those you can use them for your needs. You can also plow land mines, lay bridges and you also have supply/repair and medic vehicles for your use.

See for your self with a one month license, I did, and after two days I bought it without a blink! When you buy the life-time version, you get a one month license for free, so you can play while you wait for your CodeMeter stick to arrive, how´s that for support!

Red

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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by FOARP »

ORIGINAL: Red2112

And back to the topic RFalvo69 (sorry), Iam reading Tom Clancy´s "The Bear and the Dragon" right now, which is why I lurked your thread [;)]

Not all of Tom Clamcy´s books are good, but as you said, when you read or are reading one of his books, you get in the mood of modern warfare! Not only that, I have been playing alot of the Red Storm titles from the first Rainbow 6, up to Rainbow Six Raven Shield, as well as the first Ghost Recon. I played all these alot (MP) when I was in the Seawolves community org. back in 2000. I even got together a small group of guys who play Steel Beast to form a squad in Rainbow Six Seige. Iam currently playing and supporting the folks at Blackfoot Studios who are the dev team who was behind Red Storm Entertainment which are working on the title "Ground Branch", a true FPS shooter in the spirte of the original Rainbow Six. It´s in pre-build but works, looks and feels real nice!

Yeap, Tom Clancy all over!

Red

"The Bear and the Dragon" was a weak effort compared to Clancy's earlier stuff - he sets up what looks like it's going to be an epic conflict between Russia and China and then resolves the whole thing in a fairly unsatisfactory fashion. It's a total anti-climax and feels very unrealistic. The descriptions of life in China also come off as pretty inaccurate if you've ever lived there (hospital security guards and ordinary cops don't carry guns, for example). A lot of this would be easier to forgive if the book had been shorter and had contained less obvious padding.

Red Storm Rising was by far his best. The Sum of All Fears probably second best but still very good. Executive Orders was certainly a good effort.

Harold Coyle's stuff from around the same time was also excellent, and also puts you in a good mood for war-gamming!
American Front: a Work-in-progress CSA v USA Turtledove mod for SC:WW1 can be seen here.
Red2112
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RE: "Executive Orders" - Which game for the final battles?

Post by Red2112 »

@FOARP...

Thanks for saving me some time. I was at the beginnign of the book luckly enough. Bought it real cheap so nothing wasted. How´s "Ops Center State of Seige"?. Bought that too some time ago, same deal cheap but haven´t red it yet.

Red
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