HQ buildup exploit

Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 is a turn-based World War II strategy game stretching across the entire Eastern Front. Gamers can engage in an epic campaign, including division-sized battles with realistic and historical terrain, weather, orders of battle, logistics and combat results.

The critically and fan-acclaimed Eastern Front mega-game Gary Grigsby’s War in the East just got bigger and better with Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: Don to the Danube! This expansion to the award-winning War in the East comes with a wide array of later war scenarios ranging from short but intense 6 turn bouts like the Battle for Kharkov (1942) to immense 37-turn engagements taking place across multiple nations like Drama on the Danube (Summer 1944 – Spring 1945).

Moderators: Joel Billings, elmo3, Sabre21

Kielec
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:36 pm

HQ buildup exploit

Post by Kielec »

How many of you have been doing this?

1. Get your whatever corps ready for HQ buildup,
2. Click a "useless" unit somewhere outside the corps and not close to the FOW or enemy ZOC (security, recon airfield, whatever) and move it 1 hex, undoable,
3. Go back to the HQ ready for buildup and go through the HQ buildup clicking,
4. Click "Undo"?


XXX What it does, is that you still have the HQ build up, lose the trucks and what not,
but the Admin Points go back to the bag; the "useless" unit moves back XXX
Djouk
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:49 pm

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by Djouk »

Don't knew this ... There are very good players at this game but i suspect some using some strange exploits. Consequences : super panzers making incredible breakthroughs fighting with no fatigue and impossible logistic...
An other exploit i found is to edit an original scenario/campaign, then "exploiting" parameters and saving it and to propose it as the original on game server for the hosting player.
Thanks to you.

No idea
Posts: 495
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:19 am

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by No idea »

ORIGINAL: Kielec

How many of you have been doing this?

1. Get your whatever corps ready for HQ buildup,
2. Click a "useless" unit somewhere outside the corps and not close to the FOW or enemy ZOC (security, recon airfield, whatever) and move it 1 hex, undoable,
3. Go back to the HQ ready for buildup and go through the HQ buildup clicking,
4. Click "Undo"?


XXX What it does, is that you still have the HQ build up, lose the trucks and what not,
but the Admin Points go back to the bag; the "useless" unit moves back XXX

If it is like you say then it is a serious bug
timmyab
Posts: 2046
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:48 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by timmyab »

lol I wonder how long this has been going on for. Great spot, thanks for reporting it.
User avatar
thedoctorking
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:00 am

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by thedoctorking »

I heard that the new patch had been sent off to be distributed, but this would certainly be worth revising it further.

I tested it and the OP appears to be correct. Hitting the undo key refunds the AP but does not change the supply status of the affected units. They also continue to have 0 movement points remaining. I couldn't figure out what effect the HQBU had in the logistics phase.
Djouk
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:49 pm

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by Djouk »

Kielec helped me to find the good cheating method, he was very near truth. Only this could explain from what i was victim ...

1. Move a unit from a HQ you want to buildup, i recommend only 1 hex of the unit most in the rear to avoid interdiction which unable undo move.
2. Go BuildUp the HQ.
3. Undo last move.
4. Until now all is normal because admin points go back.
5. But at the start of next turn your HQ has buildup for free !
6. You can do that as many time you want in a turn. This affects your motor pool but give you super powers.
7. Moreover i suppose amount of vehicules you lost with HQ build is regain by all you can take in bigger pockets.

Until not corrected it s useless playing in multiplayer
weinsoldner
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 9:11 am
Location: Netherlands

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by weinsoldner »

As long as both players play by the rules I see no reason not to play a multiplayer game
Djouk
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:49 pm

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by Djouk »

As long as you have fun and believe in honesty of your opponent or in humain being [:D], why not.
User avatar
beender
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:24 am
Location: Beijing, China

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by beender »

this is a serious bug. perhaps calls for a immediate fix.
User avatar
Michael T
Posts: 4445
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:35 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia.

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by Michael T »

I find it hard to believe that these cheats are possible in Server games. If so they must have been recently introduced bugs as surely they would have been unearthed a long time ago. As an aside, I thought, IIRC that the undo button was disabled in Server games? I also thought that tampering with scenario files in server games was blocked?

Are you sure these cheats are possible in server games?

Hot seat or straight up PBEM is always a journey in to the unknown which is why I only ever played server based games.
Djouk
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:49 pm

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by Djouk »

I prefer multi player games too and was very sad to discover theses at my detriment. During a long time i was confident about integrity of this game.

Undo is available on multiplayer. Should just need some little tests but i'm pretty sure this works on multi, this is not a god mod or hidden tip voluntary made by designers. In consequence i believe this exploit exists from native version of the game.

Look like less impressive on some scenarios the full benefit is for Axis campaign in 41 where with this tip Leningrad/Moscow may be taken very very quickly.

For exotics original scenarios just edit for example Campaign 41/45 then modify it save it and propose it on server. You can rename but to lure just use the same name than the orignal. Restriction is that other players must have
your extensions.

For example I suspect an opponent to have increased growth of its forces, so at the end of 1942 he had more than 4 000 000 german soldiers (not counting its allies) and even loosing nearly 2 000 000. Sorry but all become possible after that.
Moreover how to explain that in this same 41/45 bitter end campaign i had not a single SU-2 dive bomber and i have these in the new one in thé same version of game ?!


User avatar
Michael T
Posts: 4445
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:35 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia.

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by Michael T »

I am certain that 2by3 made changes to the server files that made it impossible to modify stock scenario's without the opponent at least getting a warning message. I would be surprised if this could be circumvented. Same holds for the undo button in server games. Please do run some tests for server games for both the cheats you have found.
timmyab
Posts: 2046
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:48 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by timmyab »

The undo button does work in server games so I'm guessing that this exploit is currently active in MP games. Hard to believe it's been around for more than a patch or two though.
User avatar
Michael T
Posts: 4445
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:35 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia.

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by Michael T »

Does undo work in FOW games? Surely not?

I don't recall it working in any server games I played, buts that going back almost 2 years now.
User avatar
thedoctorking
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:00 am

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by thedoctorking »

Has anybody actually checked if this is possible in server games?

The undo button is available in games using fog of war, but only if the move did not reveal anything hidden by fog of war. The OP said that you need to make a move that is undoable, back behind the lines somewhere.

I verified that it does work in regular games, not on the server, and the expected supply advantage does seem to be happening.
Djouk
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:49 pm

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by Djouk »

I can already confirm Undo is easily available on multi player. Have you ever met what i call "intrusives ZOC" ?
I was rather well holding in pripet marsches. Then without axis breakthrough or any intrusion of enemy units in my rears and a good supply rail line all my units in marsches where surrounded by enemies ZOC and rails lines destroyed ... and so loosing marsches next turn...
May this be result of using HQ build every where on axis front at the same time !?!
User avatar
Telemecus
Posts: 4689
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:32 pm
Contact:

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by Telemecus »

ORIGINAL: Djouk
i had not a single SU-2 dive bomber and i have these in the new one ?!
Until a few patches ago there were only fighter bombers, level bombers and tac bombers - dive bombers was only recently introduced.
Wargamers Discord https://discord.gg/U6DcDxT
User avatar
thedoctorking
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:00 am

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by thedoctorking »

I think we can all agree that this is an exploit, a form of cheating, and not a legitimate game mechanic?

Also, I note that it does still deduct the vehicles from the Axis vehicle pool and does not restore them when "undo" is pressed. Therefore, the Axis can do this once or twice in the early going, but then they are going to be out of vehicles and supply in the winter is going to be awfully difficult. So maybe not quite the war-winning game-breaking exploit it appeared to be at first? Still, we shouldn't be doing it.
User avatar
morvael
Posts: 11763
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:19 am
Location: Poland

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by morvael »

It will be possible to disable undo after HQBU, but this will go into 1.11.03, not 1.11.02, as it's already in Matrix hands.

As for checking whether you're playing original or modified scenarios that is something complicated. I could probably add a function to help detecting this, but (as many things in this game) this could be easily circumvented if you know the tools (a bit of computer knowledge is required). Therefore such improvement would not be 100% safe. Afer all things like fetching scenarios from server or better encryption are out of the question. Too much work for such an old game with part-time support.
User avatar
Michael T
Posts: 4445
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:35 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia.

RE: HQ buildup exploit

Post by Michael T »

Well I am surprised by all this. I guess in the end you need honest people to disclose such discoveries. As obviously the cheaters would not make such knowledge public. I hope these things are not possible in WITE 2.0
Post Reply

Return to “Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series”