Thoughts on Free Version 0812b

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PzGrenSam
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RE: Thoughts on Free Version 0812b

Post by PzGrenSam »

ORIGINAL: PzGrenSam
quote:
5. Drawing function with mouse or pen (touch)?
I wonder what would be the platform? iPad?
No iPad, I mean my Surface 3 Pro (i5-4300U (1,9-2,9 GHz, 4 GB LPDDR3 RAM, 2160 x 1440 Resolution, Windows 10). I played your game in a train. So it could be a cool function, when players draw on the map.
Example: Planing of, artillery delivered mines, Counterattacks, next steps, ...
Or maybe a function like ARMA, to place own markers/symbols/etc.

I uploaded an example screenshot for 5th. Lines, planned stuff, arty delivered mines symbol, etc.

Idea:
A multi-display function like: World in Conflict, Supreme Commander, Arma 3 (Athena - An Arma 2nd Screen Application), would be awesome. Maybe for the future, when it is possible of course [8D]

Image

First Screen: Normal Gameplay without any changes

Second Screen: Optional information display with: Own units status, overview for the map, fire-support status and more information. Maybe with a new windowbox, so you could use this optional feature with only one display.
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Veitikka
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RE: Thoughts on Free Version 0812b

Post by Veitikka »

ORIGINAL: PzGrenSam
quote:
2. Measurement function (m/km/yards/miles), to use a "ruler"


That has been suggested. Perhaps it should be combined with the LOS tool?
Oh yes, why not? When it is possible of course.

Maybe like the tool from Steel Division, but only in 2d

An old video from me, describe the tool function in german (at 7:06)

[Can't link sth, You are not allowed to post links, emails or phone numbers for 7 days from the date of your tenth post.]
I will try to send the link or scroll down to the "Attachment(1)".

I checked the video. There could be fixed range circles like that, let's say one per every kilometer from the center. On the other hand, the AB maps have the 1km grid overlay. Perhaps it's enough to show the mouse cursor distance from the center.
quote:
5. Drawing function with mouse or pen (touch)?


I wonder what would be the platform? iPad?
No iPad, I mean my Surface 3 Pro (i5-4300U (1,9-2,9 GHz, 4 GB LPDDR3 RAM, 2160 x 1440 Resolution, Windows 10). I played your game in a train. So it could be a cool function, when players draw on the map.
Example: Planing of, artillery delivered mines, Counterattacks, next steps, ...
Or maybe a function like ARMA, to place own markers/symbols/etc.

Placing markers is what I meant when I mentioned the NATO symbols. Many games have a feature like that. It should be quite easy to implement, but advanced drawing functions can get much more complicated.
quote:
6. Free Version, to rotate the map (ingame and at the "Battlegenerator"). Now: Only to play WEST-EAST, not NORTH-SOUTH or NNW-SSE, ...


A scenario can have 'no-go zones' that make it more asymmetric.
I mean an engine feature, to get a better overview, when a player rotate the map.

The ISO (formerly "3D") view can be rotated, and is much better than in the freeware version.

After a good round in AB (0812b), I've got two new question. I hope that's no problem for you.

It is possible to order a coordinate fire raid? Example: Own tank platoon in position (or defend order), enemy come close to 2500m, so all own tanks have to fire simultaneously. So the enemy will be destroyed (30% totally kill) really fast.

You need to setup the engagement ranges. I don't remember how they exactly work in the freeware version, but I think you'll find them in the unit right-click menu.

Furthermore have got the AI a "retreat tactic"? Losses, damaged parts, few ammunition, superior enemy (tanks vs inf, open field)?
- dest - destroy 30% totally kill, little more they should regroup or go home
- sup - supress 10% totally kill
- harass - harass 10% totally kill

The AB AI is not very good at retreating... In a tactical game like this there are no front lines, because the weapons may be able to kill units from the other side of map. So the situations are very asymmetric, compared to some strategy games where you can calculate the exact amount of 'resources' you have in an area, and then you reinforce that spot or retreat from there to balance the situation.

Anyway, if the player/AI takes excessive losses in AB, then the scenario should end. If your side should retreat, or the advance has stalled, then ideally the scenario should end in defeat.

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nikolas93TS
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RE: Thoughts on Free Version 0812b

Post by nikolas93TS »

ORIGINAL: PzGrenSam
Very good! When you need some detailed information about "planned artillery delivered mines", feel free to contact me.

You are German, right? Could you give me an overview of artillery and MRLS deliver mines used by Bundeswehr; eg. when they were introduced in service?

Also, any insight on DPICM is highly appreciated, as this argument is notably hard to research, with most of the sources are treating post-Cold War period. The Dutch company Eurometaal NV was licensed by a US manufacturer to produce M483A1 155mm DPICM for NATO nations in its facility in Zaandam, but first deliveries were made to the Dutch Army in 1989, which is presumably when the plant entered operation.

While I know German stockpiles of cluster munitions include 155mm DPICM artillery projectiles, M26 MLRS rockets, 110mm LARS artillery rockets etc. I don't know much when cluster ammunition was actually adopted by Bundeswehr and when Rhinemetal acquired the licence for production.
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PzGrenSam
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RE: Thoughts on Free Version 0812b

Post by PzGrenSam »

ORIGINAL: PzGrenSam
quote:
2. Measurement function (m/km/yards/miles), to use a "ruler"

That has been suggested. Perhaps it should be combined with the LOS tool?
Oh yes, why not? When it is possible of course.

Maybe like the tool from Steel Division, but only in 2d

An old video from me, describe the tool function in german (at 7:06)

[Can't link sth, You are not allowed to post links, emails or phone numbers for 7 days from the date of your tenth post.]
I will try to send the link or scroll down to the "Attachment(1)".

I checked the video. There could be fixed range circles like that, let's say one per every kilometer from the center. On the other hand, the AB maps have the 1km grid overlay. Perhaps it's enough to show the mouse cursor distance from the center.
Yes, that could work. In my opinion it is really nice to measure sth. Range, combat-wide, safety distance for artillery, etc.

quote:
5. Drawing function with mouse or pen (touch)?

I wonder what would be the platform? iPad?
No iPad, I mean my Surface 3 Pro (i5-4300U (1,9-2,9 GHz, 4 GB LPDDR3 RAM, 2160 x 1440 Resolution, Windows 10). I played your game in a train. So it could be a cool function, when players draw on the map.
Example: Planing of, artillery delivered mines, Counterattacks, next steps, ...
Or maybe a function like ARMA, to place own markers/symbols/etc.

Placing markers is what I meant when I mentioned the NATO symbols. Many games have a feature like that. It should be quite easy to implement, but advanced drawing functions can get much more complicated.
[/quote]
Ah I understand, it should be enough when players can place markers. Maybe for my AAR I will draw a little bit, like the screenshot.

quote:
6. Free Version, to rotate the map (ingame and at the "Battlegenerator"). Now: Only to play WEST-EAST, not NORTH-SOUTH or NNW-SSE, ...

A scenario can have 'no-go zones' that make it more asymmetric.
I mean an engine feature, to get a better overview, when a player rotate the map.

The ISO (formerly "3D") view can be rotated, and is much better than in the freeware version.
[/quote]
Ok, I will see it, really nice.

After a good round in AB (0812b), I've got two new question. I hope that's no problem for you.

It is possible to order a coordinate fire raid? Example: Own tank platoon in position (or defend order), enemy come close to 2500m, so all own tanks have to fire simultaneously. So the enemy will be destroyed (30% totally kill) really fast.

You need to setup the engagement ranges. I don't remember how they exactly work in the freeware version, but I think you'll find them in the unit right-click menu.
Ok thanks, I have to check this.

Furthermore have got the AI a "retreat tactic"? Losses, damaged parts, few ammunition, superior enemy (tanks vs inf, open field)?
- dest - destroy 30% totally kill, little more they should regroup or go home
- sup - supress 10% totally kill
- harass - harass 10% totally kill

The AB AI is not very good at retreating... In a tactical game like this there are no front lines, because the weapons may be able to kill units from the other side of map. So the situations are very asymmetric, compared to some strategy games where you can calculate the exact amount of 'resources' you have in an area, and then you reinforce that spot or retreat from there to balance the situation.

Anyway, if the player/AI takes excessive losses in AB, then the scenario should end. If your side should retreat, or the advance has stalled, then ideally the scenario should end in defeat.
I believe you mean "Tactical Defeat/Win". I agree with you.


Cheers

Sam
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PzGrenSam
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RE: Thoughts on Free Version 0812b

Post by PzGrenSam »

ORIGINAL: nikolas93TS
ORIGINAL: PzGrenSam
Very good! When you need some detailed information about "planned artillery delivered mines", feel free to contact me.

You are German, right? Could you give me an overview of artillery and MRLS deliver mines used by Bundeswehr; eg. when they were introduced in service?

Also, any insight on DPICM is highly appreciated, as this argument is notably hard to research, with most of the sources are treating post-Cold War period. The Dutch company Eurometaal NV was licensed by a US manufacturer to produce M483A1 155mm DPICM for NATO nations in its facility in Zaandam, but first deliveries were made to the Dutch Army in 1989, which is presumably when the plant entered operation.

While I know German stockpiles of cluster munitions include 155mm DPICM artillery projectiles, M26 MLRS rockets, 110mm LARS artillery rockets etc. I don't know much when cluster ammunition was actually adopted by Bundeswehr and when Rhinemetal acquired the licence for production.

I don't get some production information about the DPICM right now, but the german version of the M109 can fire the M483A1 from (1975) and M864 from (1987). But LARS and MARS have to fire smash/suppress enemy tank formations.

LARS 1 - 110 mm, 1971 with AT-1/AT-2 scatterable mines (Diehl production spring 1976/1978 (AT-2)) and fragmentation
LARS 2 - 110 mm, 1981, 36 Tubes in 18 seconds, with three types of ammunition are available: fragmentation, anti-tank mines (AT-2) and smoke.

I only know that the german M109 used fragmentation, long-range HE-FRAG, smoke and combat-lighting

MARS - M270, 12 tubes, 1993/1994 the German Armed Forces get 154 MARS and 9360 Rockets with 262k AT-2 Mines
The normal M26 (with M77 (DPICM (Dual Purpose Improved Conventional Munition))) is forbidden (Ottawa Convention from 1999). The new BAT (Brilliant Anti-armor technology) is only for the NATO Alliance Case. Furthermore the old rockets from LARS can fired.
Ammunition: AT-2 (german developed), XM31 (GMLRS, with different warheads SMArt or FRAG-HE), LAR (with adapter RPC's), M30 (new Cluster M85, like M77), MSTAR, M26 (with M77 DPICM)

Information about the AT-2:
Range: 10-38,5 km
28 Antitankmines in one AT-2
336 mines with only one MARS (12 AT-2 = 336 Antitankmines)
Example zone: 400 x 1000 m
with different 6 time settings (max. 96 h) and self-destruction
(3h, 6h, 12h, 24h, 48h, 96h)

Preparation time for a new antitankminefield with AT-2: 30 minutes
Time to activate the antitankminefield with AT-2 (and to fire the AT-2s: 5 minutes

The zone size and number of mines can be calculated from the MARS crew. You can -disrupt-, -turn-, -fix- and -block- the enemy with this scatterable mines.

I hope you can do something with it.


Cheers

Sam


P.S. I get the error: You are not allowed to post links, emails or phone numbers for 7 days from the date of your tenth post. When I write: "...can fire the M483A1 from (1975) and M864 from (1987)..." without the 2. from... and more for other reasons...

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calgar
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RE: Thoughts on Free Version 0812b

Post by calgar »

finally got the Article on AT-Helo deployment from the library....

...didn't find the info I hope I would. Only some off-hand comments about "unplanned" positions. A Wargame Excercise from the 80s also indicates different BPs for the HElo's in clearly what is an unplanned situation.

In any case, I didn't find the strong evidence I hoped to back up my case.

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nikolas93TS
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RE: Thoughts on Free Version 0812b

Post by nikolas93TS »

It seems that at least for 155mm, first trial DPICM rounds were acquired in 1983 and the first operational DM602 rounds entered service shortly thereafter, although exact date is not specified.
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