Here is the ALTNAV History for Between the Storms
Between the Storms (12/20/17)
ALTNAV 1922-1937
The Treaty Mod for AE has been created to reflect a slightly different outcome of the historic Washington and London Naval Conferences to cover the time of 1922-1937. With little changes and tweaks to the Treaty System, a slightly a-historic outcome is produced. The Treaty Years give way to the ramping up of World War Two. Japan grapples with the consequences of exiting the Treaty System and works to create a more balanced Fleet under the able leadership and foresight of Naval Minister Yamamoto Isoroku.
The Washington Conference
Secretary of State Charles Evans Hughes blueprint for naval disarmament gets out and the Japanese stonewall a Naval Conference for a full year. After considerable bickering and pressure being brought to bear, the Conference does take place in 1922 and disarmament is agreed upon, however, there are additions allowed due to the added time to get the meeting going. The whole Mutsu debate is scrapped due to Mutsu actually being ready and deployed at that point. A slightly higher 10:10:7 ratio between Great Britain, the United States, and Japan is agreed upon, allowing for several new outcomes:
1. The Ratio Change to 10:10:7:
a. The Japanese argue to keep the nearly complete battleship Tosa and the Amagi-Class battlecruiser Ishitaka. The Americans gain the fourth Colorado-Class USS Washington and the Battlecruiser USS Constellation (while scrapping the old battleships Florida and Utah and making the Wyoming into a gunnery training ship to maintain balance), Great Britain gets the option to build a pair of Super-Hoods.
b. Tonnages are left open for the British to build two 35,000 Ton battleships (Rodney and Nelson), the United States has 28,000 Ton available, and the Japanese have 18,000 Ton open for new Capital Ships. These warships are designed through the late-20s and are authorized for building at the time of the London Naval Conference. The United States builds a fast Battlecruiser (USS Chesapeake) armed with 4x3 12" Guns while the Japanese build a Light Battlecruiser named Chichibu (2x2 16.1" Guns).
2. The whole subject of CVs is reworked:
a. Two 'experimental' CVs (two Hosho's and two Langley's) are allowed to be built for further carrier experimentation. The Americans convert USS Langley and USS Ely to CVEs and they begin the war at the Panama Canal. Japan has IJN Hosho and Ibuki.
b. Two BC to CV conversions are still allowed. The Americans use all their Treaty tonnage to make Wasp a 4th Yorktown-Class CV. The Japanese back off the failed Ryujo design to build IJN Ryukaku and Karasu while Soryu enters as a Hiryu-Class CV.
3. The Big 3 allow for more research into 'Cruiser' Submarines. Since no one had any real idea of where submarines were headed, this allows for further experimentation. The Americans build an additional Argonaut, Narwhal, and three Seaplane carrying subs. The Japanese add three Mine Layers and four large ocean-going Glen SS, and the French add another Surcouf.
The London Conference
Moving on to the London Conference (1930), the subject of Cruisers is re-worked:
1. Japan--at all costs--sticks to its goal of 70% for CAs (instead of 60%). Japan is authorized to build a total of 14 CAs.
2. Great Britain--who nearly scrapped the treaty due to the issue of CAs and CLs--stands firm over its argument and forces a larger tonnage for CLs. This brings no change to the Treaty since Japan was already at 70% in this category.
3. Both Japan and the United States were looking at hybrid Cruiser—CVs and they force Great Britain, following the example set with the Washington BC—CV Conversions, to allow for two hybrids each to be built in the early-30s. The nations are allowed with ONLY these two vessels to place up to 8" guns on them. USA builds CLV Charlotte and Jacksonville (3x3 6" and 18 Planes), GB builds CAV Melbourne and Wellington (sold/given to those respective navies with 2x2 8" and 15 Planes), and Japan finishes up with CAV Kushiro and Tokachi (3x2 8" and 27 Planes). These hybrids are not true, useful CVLs nor are they true, useful cruisers but they have a unique niche in 1941 and ALL of them can be converted into carriers later in 1942.
***It should be noted that to take maximum advantage of the revised Treaty tonnages, Japan converts several of the oldest CLs into fast ML, builds additional Myoko-Class CAs and keeps the last four Mogami-Class as 6” CLs.
Warship Construction AFTER the Treaty Years
Battleship Question and Decision
Staying historical the Japanese decide to build the super-battleships of the Yamato-Class. All four are represented in this Mod. Shinano and Aki are built as BBs and they will use BUCKETS of shipyard points but they are Japan's for the asking.
Fuji-Class Light Battlecruisers
The perceived success of the Chichibu Battlecruiser leads Japan to follow the big guns approach with their final class of 'cruisers.' The Japanese follow the example of the Panzerschiff and create a cruiser-killing class of ships. The Fuji-Class mount six 12" guns, capable secondary, and long lances in an effort to fight the massive American Two-Ocean Naval Build-Up.
The Rise of Admiral Yamamoto
As the Treaty Period ends, history takes another turn as Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku makes a greater contribution to the development of the Kaigun from 1936-1941. Yamamoto exerts a much greater influence first on the Japan Naval Aircraft Industry, then as Deputy Navy Minister, and finally as Navy Minister itself. Yamamoto chooses, at great risk to his life, to forego command of the Combined Fleet and dedicate himself to preparing Japan for the war he didn't want. He adds two new slipways (Shanghai and Port Arthur) for Fleet construction to facilitate a different, final pre-war expansion of the Kaigun. New and expanded Naval Yards, Heavy Industry, and Armaments are added at tremendous cost for the Japanese economy as the Admiral attempts to prepare Japan for a possibly long war. In so choosing to do this Yamamoto then changes the 4th Circle Building Plan stopping the 3rd and 4th Yamato-Class Battleships, adding two improved Shokaku-Class CVs, a pair of Kawachi-Class fast Battlecruisers, an accelerated Light Cruiser deployment, and additional destroyers. Quick, reasonably cheap carrier conversions are moved forward seeing all of the pre-war CVs/CVLs deploy by December 7th or at slightly earlier dates in 1942. The highly unrealistic 5th Circle Plan is added in late-1941 and brings back the 3rd and 4th Yamato-Class BB for the building que. Despite Yamamoto's arguments this allocation of resources goes ahead with completion dates set in 1943-1944. Though only a few of these new ships are ready on December 7th, these additions make the Kaigun a force to be reckoned with well into 1944.
The Japan Naval Air Arm deploys its magnificent A6M2 with research complete for its successors of the M3 and M5. These airframes are nearly ready in December 1941 and the Japanese wisely look at advanced prototypes elsewhere and decide to explore several second-generation fighter concepts. The Zero Team moves on to the Jack and Sam, while private contractors work on the George. Yamamoto fosters a sense of competition between the two teams to see who will win out as having a worthy successor to the A6M2 line. Additional streamlining and encouragement brings forward second-generation aircraft of other fields--Dive-Bombing, Torpedo-Bombing, and the creation of a small heavy bomber line.
On the ground Yamamoto reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and—knowing it will be a war of attrition—converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery (using guns taken from refitted warships) for a stronger defensive unit. Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs. While all these units are small and not in great number they promise to help the Japanese war effort.
The foresight of the Admiral pays off during late-1942 and 1943 as new ships, aircraft, and ground units enter into the Japanese Order-of-Battle, however, the cost is steep. Though expanded and using modern aircraft many Japanese Naval Air units start with their experience lowered to reflect the dilution of the experienced pilots into new units that start in Japan or arrive during 1942-1943.
Supply and fuel reserves start at a much reduced state. The Japanese MUST take the DEI as fast as possible!
Once war begins BTSL postulates Yamamoto’s influence upon the wartime Kaigun. Four more improved Shokaku-Class CVs are ordered, and the conversion of several CLs into CVLs is added. First class destroyers continue to be accelerated and emphasis is shifted to the AA Akizuki-Class at the expense of the more balanced Yugumo’s. Manpower is at a premium within the Fleet so Submarines, Escorts, and ASW forces all see a major retooling reflecting the Japanese quality over quantity belief. Yamamoto chooses the immediately useful projects, large APs converting to CVEs, better destroyers, fast transports and coastal defense forces.
Allied Response
It should be noted that not all the changes are for the Japanese. Between the Storms brings major additions and more choice for the Allied Player. The Allies see continued major changes in their starting locations, new air units, the addition of Training Squadrons on mainland USA to allow for an American pilot training program, enhanced aircraft production numbers, additional Allied FP groups, several ground units, additional New Zealand and Australian ships, a French Squadron at Tahiti, the CL Eendract for the DEI, a stronger Force Z, a CLAA conversion for the Omaha-CL, an additional pair of CVLs, and optional conversion of the Kittyhawk Class AKV and Tangier Class AV into CVEs. The added warships reflect a ‘stopgap’ counter to the increased Japanese strength found at war’s start.
Additionally, the Hepburn Board's recommendation to augmenting and expanding many Pacific Bases is heeded and work is sped up at Wake, Midway, the Aleutians, and in the South Pacific. While work has just begun in many ways, these advances pose a tougher problem for Japan if she moves east or southeast.
As war clouds gather on the horizon, the United States makes several important decisions (1) to slightly reinforce the Asiatic Fleet with an additional CA and 4 modern DDs, (2) Admiral Hart also decides to follow his inner thoughts and begin development of Cebu as an alternate anchorage, and (3) the Scouting Force, commanded by Vc-Adm Wilson, is sent south to protect the ships helping to develop Pago Pago into a forward operating base. This powerful Task Force serves to aid the convoy going to the Philippines (The Pensacola TF) and the empty TF returning from the Philippines (The Chester TF).
As war clouds gather, the Royal Navy moves a pair of battleships from Home Fleet to Ceylon. These ships, Valiant and Queen Elizabeth are further reinforced by Force Z. In a major development Winston Churchill decides, at the last minute, to add HMS Renown to Force Z to better demonstrate British 'resolve' reflecting the seriousness of Japan's overt aggression. Repairs on HMS Indomitable are rushed and this valuable carrier and her escorts are just days away from assisting Force Z by providing invaluable air cover. A Gurkha Brigade is rushed into Singapore along with supplies and two dozen crated Hurricane Fighters. Is it too little, too late?
How well can YOU do to use these new tools OR how well can you stop the Japanese Navy in its tracks as the Allies?
Scenario Notes
In addition to its own special modifications, Between the Storms has been made fully compatible with DaBabes and thus has more ship classes than stock, and many more of the smaller vessels comprising these classes for both sides: yard oilers, coastal minesweepers, auxiliary subchasers, patrol boats, minefield tenders, and many others designed to give a more robust and realistic feel to the development, population, capabilities, and logistical support of bases and rear and operational areas. Database elements have been modified to provide more realistic results for AAA (flak) combat, ASW combat, and certain minor, but nevertheless fun, aspects of naval combat, like land bombardment and coastal defense fire and new modifications to ATA combat. The modifications include lining-up and unifying data elements within certain fields, so that things interface more smoothly, as well as substantial changes to the data elements themselves.
Garrison requirements have been raised in China as well as India to, hopefully, better reflect the political environment of the regions.
If using the special road movement pwhexe.dat file this serves to slow movement in the CBI Theatre.
Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
...and the other Scenario...
Between the Storms Lite 060
ALTNAV 1922-1937
The Treaty Mod for AE has been created to reflect a slightly different outcome of the historic Washington and London Naval Conferences to cover the time of 1922-1937. With little changes and tweaks to the Treaty System, a slightly a-historic outcome is produced. The Treaty Years give way to the ramping up of World War Two. Japan grapples with the consequences of exiting the Treaty System and works to create a more balanced Fleet under the able leadership of Naval Minister Yamamoto Isoroku.
The Washington Conference
Secretary of State Charles Evans Hughes blueprint for naval disarmament gets out and the Japanese stonewall a Naval Conference for a full year. After considerable bickering and pressure being brought to bear, the Conference does take place in 1922 and disarmament is agreed upon, however, there are additions allowed due to the added time to get the meeting going. The whole Mutsu debate is scrapped due to Mutsu actually being ready and deployed at that point. A slightly higher 10:10:7 ratio between Great Britain, the United States, and Japan is agreed upon, there are several new outcomes:
1. The Ratio Change to 10:10:7:
a. The Japanese argue to keep the nearly complete battleship Tosa and the Amagi-Class battlecruiser Ishitaka. The Americans gain the fourth Colorado-Class USS Washington and the Battlecruiser USS Constellation (while scrapping the old battleships Florida and Utah and making the Wyoming into a gunnery training ship to maintain balance), Great Britain gets the option to build a pair of Super-Hoods.
b. Tonnages are left open for the British to build two 35,000 Ton battleships, the United States has 28,000 Ton available, and the Japanese have 18,000 Ton open for new Capital Ships. These warships are designed through the late-20s and are authorized for building at the time of the London Naval Conference. The United States builds a fast Battlecruiser (USS Chesapeake) armed with 4x3 12" Guns while the Japanese build a Light Battlecruiser named Chichibu (2x2 16.1" Guns).
2. The whole subject of CVs is reworked:
a. Two 'experimental' CVs (two Hosho's and two Langley's) are allowed to be built for further carrier experimentation. The Americans convert USS Langley and USS Ely to CVEs and they begin the war at the Panama Canal. Japan has IJN Hosho and Ibuki.
b. Two BC to CV conversions are still allowed. The Americans use all their Treaty tonnage to make Wasp a 4th Yorktown'Class CV. The Japanese back off the failed Ryujo design to build IJN Ryukaku and Karasu while Soryu enters as a Hiryu-Class CV.
3. The Big 3 allow for more research into 'Cruiser' Submarines. Since no one had any real idea of where submarines were headed, this allows for further experimentation. The Americans build an additional Argonaut, Narwhal, and three Seaplane carrying subs. The Japanese add three Mine Layers and four large ocean-going Glen SS, and the French add another Surcouf.[/i]
The London Conference
Moving on to the London Conference (1930), the subject of Cruisers is re-worked:
1. Japan--at all costs--sticks to its goal of 70% for CAs (instead of 60%). Japan is authorized to build a total of 14 CAs.
2. Great Britain--who nearly scrapped the treaty due to the issue of CAs and CLs--stands firm over its argument and forces a larger tonnage for CLs. This brings no change to the Treaty since Japan was already at 70% in this category.
3. Both Japan and the United States were looking at hybrid Cruiser—CVs and they force Great Britain, following the example set with the Washington BC—CV Conversions, to allow for two hybrids each to be built in the early-30s. The nations are allowed with ONLY these two vessels to place up to 8" guns on them. USA builds CLV Charlotte and Jacksonville (3x3 6" and 18 Planes), GB builds CAV Melbourne and Wellington (sold/given to those respective navies with 2x2 8" and 15 Planes), and Japan finishes up with CAV Kushiro and Tokachi (3x2 8" and 27 Planes). These hybrids are not true, useful CVLs nor are they true, useful cruisers but they have a unique niche in 1941 and ALL of them can be converted into carriers later in 1942.
***It should be noted that to take maximum advantage of the revised Treaty tonnages, Japan converts several of the oldest CLs into fast ML, builds additional Myoko-Class CAs and keeps the last four Mogami Class as 6” CLs.
Warship Construction AFTER the Treaty Years
Battleship Question and Decision
After abandoning the Treaty System, great discussion goes into the first new battleships to be built by Japan since the Nagato Class. The choices ends up centering on building two modern, fast conventional battlewagons as opposed to the mighty Yamato-Class. The prohibitive factors of cost, additional shipyard construction and time finally swing the decision to creating the Owari-Class (3x3 16.1" Rifles). While not sounding too exciting this change brings about a very interesting situation. Both Yamato and Musashi required their slipways to be expanded in length. The expansions were hugely expensive and took MONTHS to finish. By building the Owari-Class BBs the Japanese clear these slipways 12-18 months faster. The net result is two modern BBs (28 Knots) join the Kaigun BEFORE Pearl Harbor and their successors (two B-65 Class BCs) are either finished or near complete at war's start. Hoping to stay competitive vis-a-vis the Two Ocean Bill, two additional Owari-Class BBs are laid down just prior to the start of hostilities.
Command Cruisers
While debate rages on about the new battleship design, a new class of heavy cruiser is initiated. The proposed Tone-Class floatplane CA is discarded for a balanced, more capable cruiser. These large cruisers are better called command cruisers. The Niitaka-Class grows to over 15,000 tonnes and carries 4x3 8" guns, heavy torpedo armament, impressive secondaries, and strong floatplane complements. These fast, rugged cruisers are planned to be a six ship class. The initial two are complete at war's start, a second pair coming in late-1942, and a final pair in 1944.
The Rise of Admiral Yamamoto
As the Treaty Period ends, history takes another turn as Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku makes a greater contribution to the development of the Kaigun from 1936-1941. Yamamoto exerts a much greater influence first on the Japan Naval Aircraft Industry, then as Deputy Navy Minister, and finally as Navy Minister itself. Yamamoto chooses, at great risk to his life, to forego command of the Combined Fleet and dedicate himself to preparing Japan for the war he didn't want. He adds two new slipways (Shanghai and Port Arthur) for Fleet construction to facilitate a different, final pre-war expansion of the Kaigun. New and expanded Naval Yards, Heavy Industry, and Armaments are added at tremendous cost for the Japanese economy as the Admiral attempts to prepare Japan for a possibly long war. In so choosing to do this Yamamoto then changes the 4th Circle Building Plan dropping the 3rd and 4th Owari-Class Battleships for two improved Shokaku-Class CVs, a pair of Kawachi-Class fast Battlecruisers, an accelerated Light Cruiser deployment, and additional destroyers. Quick, reasonably cheap carrier conversions are moved forward seeing all of the pre-war CVs/CVLs deploy by December 7th or at slightly earlier dates in 1942. The highly unrealistic 5th Circle Plan is added in late-1941 and adds the 3rd and 4th Owari-Class BB back into building que. Despite Yamamoto's arguments this allocation of resources goes ahead with completion dates set in 1943-1944. Though only a few of these new ships are ready on December 7th, these additions make the Kaigun a force to be reckoned with well into 1944.
The Japan Naval Air Arm deploys its magnificent A6M2 with research complete for its successors of the M3 and M5. These airframes are nearly ready in December 1941 and the Japanese wisely look at advanced prototypes elsewhere and decide to explore several second-generation fighter concepts. The Zero Team moves on to the Jack and Sam, while private contractors work on the George. Yamamoto fosters a sense of competition between the two teams to see who will win out as having a worthy successor to the A6M2 line. Additional streamlining and encouragement brings forward second-generation aircraft of other fields--Dive-Bombing, Torpedo-Bombing, and the creation of a small heavy bomber line.
On the ground Yamamoto reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and—knowing it will be a war of attrition—converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery (using guns taken from refitted warships) for a stronger defensive unit. Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs. While all these units are small and not in great number they promise to help the Japanese war effort.
The foresight of the Admiral pays off during late-1942 and 1943 as new ships, aircraft, and ground units enter into the Japanese Order-of-Battle, however, the cost is steep. Though expanded and using modern aircraft many Japanese Naval Air units start with their experience lowered to reflect the dilution of the experienced pilots into new units that start in Japan or arrive during 1942-1943.
Supply and fuel reserves start at a much reduced state. The Japanese MUST take the DEI as fast as possible!
Once war begins BTSL postulates Yamamoto’s influence upon the wartime Kaigun. Four more improved Shokaku-Class CVs are ordered, and the conversion of several CLs into CVLs is added. First class destroyers are accelerated and emphasis is shifted to the AA Akizuki-Class at the expense of the more balanced Yugumo’s. Manpower is at a premium within the Fleet so Submarines, Escorts, and ASW forces all see a major retooling reflecting the Japanese quality over quantity belief. Yamamoto chooses the immediately useful projects, large APs converting to CVEs, better destroyers, fast transports and coastal defense forces.
It should be noted that not all the changes are for the Japanese. Between the Storms brings major additions and more choice for the Allied Player. The Allies see continued major changes in their starting locations, new air units, the addition of Training Squadrons on mainland USA to allow for an American pilot training program, enhanced aircraft production numbers, additional Allied FP groups, several ground units, additional New Zealand and Australian ships, a French Squadron at Tahiti, the CL Eendract for the DEI, a stronger Force Z, a CLAA conversion for the Omaha-CL, an additional pair of CVLs, and optional conversion of the Kittyhawk Class AKV and Tangier Class AV into CVEs. The added warships reflect a ‘stopgap’ counter to the increased Japanese strength found at war’s start.
Additionally, the Hepburn Board's recommendation to augmenting and expanding many Pacific Bases is heeded and work is sped up at Wake, Midway, the Aleutians, and in the South Pacific. While work has just begun in many ways, these advances pose a tougher problem for Japan if she moves east or southeast.
As war clouds gather on the horizon, the United States makes several important decisions (1) to slightly reinforce the Asiatic Fleet with an additional CA and 4 modern DDs, (2) Admiral Hart also decides to follow his inner thoughts and begin development of Cebu as an alternate anchorage, and (3) the Scouting Force, commanded by Vc-Adm Wilson, is sent south to protect the ships helping to develop Pago Pago into a forward operating base. This powerful Task Force serves to aid the convoy going to the Philippines (The Pensacola TF) and the empty TF returning from the Philippines (The Chester TF). In a major development Winston Churchill decides, at the last minute, to add HMS Renown to Force Z to better demonstrate British 'resolve' reflecting the seriousness of Japan's overt aggression. Repairs on HMS Indomitable are rushed and this valuable carrier is just days away from assisting Force Z by providing invaluable air cover. Is it too little, too late?
How well can YOU do to use these new tools OR how well can you stop the Japanese Navy in its tracks as the Allies?
In addition to its own special modifications, Between the Storms has been made fully compatible with DaBabes and thus has more ship classes than stock, and many more of the smaller vessels comprising these classes for both sides: yard oilers, coastal minesweepers, auxiliary subchasers, patrol boats, minefield tenders, and many others designed to give a more robust and realistic feel to the development, population, capabilities, and logistical support of bases and rear and operational areas. Database elements have been modified to provide more realistic results for AAA (flak) combat, ASW combat, and certain minor, but nevertheless fun, aspects of naval combat, like land bombardment and coastal defense fire and new modifications to ATA combat. The modifications include lining-up and unifying data elements within certain fields, so that things interface more smoothly, as well as substantial changes to the data elements themselves.
Garrison requirements have been raised in China as well as India to, hopefully, better reflect the political environment of the regions.
If using the special road movement pwhexe.dat file this serves to slow movement in the CBI Theatre.
Japan deploys its few new ships to protect the Invasion TFs coming from Babeldoap and Cam Rahn Bay as the Kido Butai steams towards its rendezvous with destiny at Pearl Harbor…
Between the Storms Lite 060
ALTNAV 1922-1937
The Treaty Mod for AE has been created to reflect a slightly different outcome of the historic Washington and London Naval Conferences to cover the time of 1922-1937. With little changes and tweaks to the Treaty System, a slightly a-historic outcome is produced. The Treaty Years give way to the ramping up of World War Two. Japan grapples with the consequences of exiting the Treaty System and works to create a more balanced Fleet under the able leadership of Naval Minister Yamamoto Isoroku.
The Washington Conference
Secretary of State Charles Evans Hughes blueprint for naval disarmament gets out and the Japanese stonewall a Naval Conference for a full year. After considerable bickering and pressure being brought to bear, the Conference does take place in 1922 and disarmament is agreed upon, however, there are additions allowed due to the added time to get the meeting going. The whole Mutsu debate is scrapped due to Mutsu actually being ready and deployed at that point. A slightly higher 10:10:7 ratio between Great Britain, the United States, and Japan is agreed upon, there are several new outcomes:
1. The Ratio Change to 10:10:7:
a. The Japanese argue to keep the nearly complete battleship Tosa and the Amagi-Class battlecruiser Ishitaka. The Americans gain the fourth Colorado-Class USS Washington and the Battlecruiser USS Constellation (while scrapping the old battleships Florida and Utah and making the Wyoming into a gunnery training ship to maintain balance), Great Britain gets the option to build a pair of Super-Hoods.
b. Tonnages are left open for the British to build two 35,000 Ton battleships, the United States has 28,000 Ton available, and the Japanese have 18,000 Ton open for new Capital Ships. These warships are designed through the late-20s and are authorized for building at the time of the London Naval Conference. The United States builds a fast Battlecruiser (USS Chesapeake) armed with 4x3 12" Guns while the Japanese build a Light Battlecruiser named Chichibu (2x2 16.1" Guns).
2. The whole subject of CVs is reworked:
a. Two 'experimental' CVs (two Hosho's and two Langley's) are allowed to be built for further carrier experimentation. The Americans convert USS Langley and USS Ely to CVEs and they begin the war at the Panama Canal. Japan has IJN Hosho and Ibuki.
b. Two BC to CV conversions are still allowed. The Americans use all their Treaty tonnage to make Wasp a 4th Yorktown'Class CV. The Japanese back off the failed Ryujo design to build IJN Ryukaku and Karasu while Soryu enters as a Hiryu-Class CV.
3. The Big 3 allow for more research into 'Cruiser' Submarines. Since no one had any real idea of where submarines were headed, this allows for further experimentation. The Americans build an additional Argonaut, Narwhal, and three Seaplane carrying subs. The Japanese add three Mine Layers and four large ocean-going Glen SS, and the French add another Surcouf.[/i]
The London Conference
Moving on to the London Conference (1930), the subject of Cruisers is re-worked:
1. Japan--at all costs--sticks to its goal of 70% for CAs (instead of 60%). Japan is authorized to build a total of 14 CAs.
2. Great Britain--who nearly scrapped the treaty due to the issue of CAs and CLs--stands firm over its argument and forces a larger tonnage for CLs. This brings no change to the Treaty since Japan was already at 70% in this category.
3. Both Japan and the United States were looking at hybrid Cruiser—CVs and they force Great Britain, following the example set with the Washington BC—CV Conversions, to allow for two hybrids each to be built in the early-30s. The nations are allowed with ONLY these two vessels to place up to 8" guns on them. USA builds CLV Charlotte and Jacksonville (3x3 6" and 18 Planes), GB builds CAV Melbourne and Wellington (sold/given to those respective navies with 2x2 8" and 15 Planes), and Japan finishes up with CAV Kushiro and Tokachi (3x2 8" and 27 Planes). These hybrids are not true, useful CVLs nor are they true, useful cruisers but they have a unique niche in 1941 and ALL of them can be converted into carriers later in 1942.
***It should be noted that to take maximum advantage of the revised Treaty tonnages, Japan converts several of the oldest CLs into fast ML, builds additional Myoko-Class CAs and keeps the last four Mogami Class as 6” CLs.
Warship Construction AFTER the Treaty Years
Battleship Question and Decision
After abandoning the Treaty System, great discussion goes into the first new battleships to be built by Japan since the Nagato Class. The choices ends up centering on building two modern, fast conventional battlewagons as opposed to the mighty Yamato-Class. The prohibitive factors of cost, additional shipyard construction and time finally swing the decision to creating the Owari-Class (3x3 16.1" Rifles). While not sounding too exciting this change brings about a very interesting situation. Both Yamato and Musashi required their slipways to be expanded in length. The expansions were hugely expensive and took MONTHS to finish. By building the Owari-Class BBs the Japanese clear these slipways 12-18 months faster. The net result is two modern BBs (28 Knots) join the Kaigun BEFORE Pearl Harbor and their successors (two B-65 Class BCs) are either finished or near complete at war's start. Hoping to stay competitive vis-a-vis the Two Ocean Bill, two additional Owari-Class BBs are laid down just prior to the start of hostilities.
Command Cruisers
While debate rages on about the new battleship design, a new class of heavy cruiser is initiated. The proposed Tone-Class floatplane CA is discarded for a balanced, more capable cruiser. These large cruisers are better called command cruisers. The Niitaka-Class grows to over 15,000 tonnes and carries 4x3 8" guns, heavy torpedo armament, impressive secondaries, and strong floatplane complements. These fast, rugged cruisers are planned to be a six ship class. The initial two are complete at war's start, a second pair coming in late-1942, and a final pair in 1944.
The Rise of Admiral Yamamoto
As the Treaty Period ends, history takes another turn as Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku makes a greater contribution to the development of the Kaigun from 1936-1941. Yamamoto exerts a much greater influence first on the Japan Naval Aircraft Industry, then as Deputy Navy Minister, and finally as Navy Minister itself. Yamamoto chooses, at great risk to his life, to forego command of the Combined Fleet and dedicate himself to preparing Japan for the war he didn't want. He adds two new slipways (Shanghai and Port Arthur) for Fleet construction to facilitate a different, final pre-war expansion of the Kaigun. New and expanded Naval Yards, Heavy Industry, and Armaments are added at tremendous cost for the Japanese economy as the Admiral attempts to prepare Japan for a possibly long war. In so choosing to do this Yamamoto then changes the 4th Circle Building Plan dropping the 3rd and 4th Owari-Class Battleships for two improved Shokaku-Class CVs, a pair of Kawachi-Class fast Battlecruisers, an accelerated Light Cruiser deployment, and additional destroyers. Quick, reasonably cheap carrier conversions are moved forward seeing all of the pre-war CVs/CVLs deploy by December 7th or at slightly earlier dates in 1942. The highly unrealistic 5th Circle Plan is added in late-1941 and adds the 3rd and 4th Owari-Class BB back into building que. Despite Yamamoto's arguments this allocation of resources goes ahead with completion dates set in 1943-1944. Though only a few of these new ships are ready on December 7th, these additions make the Kaigun a force to be reckoned with well into 1944.
The Japan Naval Air Arm deploys its magnificent A6M2 with research complete for its successors of the M3 and M5. These airframes are nearly ready in December 1941 and the Japanese wisely look at advanced prototypes elsewhere and decide to explore several second-generation fighter concepts. The Zero Team moves on to the Jack and Sam, while private contractors work on the George. Yamamoto fosters a sense of competition between the two teams to see who will win out as having a worthy successor to the A6M2 line. Additional streamlining and encouragement brings forward second-generation aircraft of other fields--Dive-Bombing, Torpedo-Bombing, and the creation of a small heavy bomber line.
On the ground Yamamoto reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and—knowing it will be a war of attrition—converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery (using guns taken from refitted warships) for a stronger defensive unit. Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs. While all these units are small and not in great number they promise to help the Japanese war effort.
The foresight of the Admiral pays off during late-1942 and 1943 as new ships, aircraft, and ground units enter into the Japanese Order-of-Battle, however, the cost is steep. Though expanded and using modern aircraft many Japanese Naval Air units start with their experience lowered to reflect the dilution of the experienced pilots into new units that start in Japan or arrive during 1942-1943.
Supply and fuel reserves start at a much reduced state. The Japanese MUST take the DEI as fast as possible!
Once war begins BTSL postulates Yamamoto’s influence upon the wartime Kaigun. Four more improved Shokaku-Class CVs are ordered, and the conversion of several CLs into CVLs is added. First class destroyers are accelerated and emphasis is shifted to the AA Akizuki-Class at the expense of the more balanced Yugumo’s. Manpower is at a premium within the Fleet so Submarines, Escorts, and ASW forces all see a major retooling reflecting the Japanese quality over quantity belief. Yamamoto chooses the immediately useful projects, large APs converting to CVEs, better destroyers, fast transports and coastal defense forces.
It should be noted that not all the changes are for the Japanese. Between the Storms brings major additions and more choice for the Allied Player. The Allies see continued major changes in their starting locations, new air units, the addition of Training Squadrons on mainland USA to allow for an American pilot training program, enhanced aircraft production numbers, additional Allied FP groups, several ground units, additional New Zealand and Australian ships, a French Squadron at Tahiti, the CL Eendract for the DEI, a stronger Force Z, a CLAA conversion for the Omaha-CL, an additional pair of CVLs, and optional conversion of the Kittyhawk Class AKV and Tangier Class AV into CVEs. The added warships reflect a ‘stopgap’ counter to the increased Japanese strength found at war’s start.
Additionally, the Hepburn Board's recommendation to augmenting and expanding many Pacific Bases is heeded and work is sped up at Wake, Midway, the Aleutians, and in the South Pacific. While work has just begun in many ways, these advances pose a tougher problem for Japan if she moves east or southeast.
As war clouds gather on the horizon, the United States makes several important decisions (1) to slightly reinforce the Asiatic Fleet with an additional CA and 4 modern DDs, (2) Admiral Hart also decides to follow his inner thoughts and begin development of Cebu as an alternate anchorage, and (3) the Scouting Force, commanded by Vc-Adm Wilson, is sent south to protect the ships helping to develop Pago Pago into a forward operating base. This powerful Task Force serves to aid the convoy going to the Philippines (The Pensacola TF) and the empty TF returning from the Philippines (The Chester TF). In a major development Winston Churchill decides, at the last minute, to add HMS Renown to Force Z to better demonstrate British 'resolve' reflecting the seriousness of Japan's overt aggression. Repairs on HMS Indomitable are rushed and this valuable carrier is just days away from assisting Force Z by providing invaluable air cover. Is it too little, too late?
How well can YOU do to use these new tools OR how well can you stop the Japanese Navy in its tracks as the Allies?
In addition to its own special modifications, Between the Storms has been made fully compatible with DaBabes and thus has more ship classes than stock, and many more of the smaller vessels comprising these classes for both sides: yard oilers, coastal minesweepers, auxiliary subchasers, patrol boats, minefield tenders, and many others designed to give a more robust and realistic feel to the development, population, capabilities, and logistical support of bases and rear and operational areas. Database elements have been modified to provide more realistic results for AAA (flak) combat, ASW combat, and certain minor, but nevertheless fun, aspects of naval combat, like land bombardment and coastal defense fire and new modifications to ATA combat. The modifications include lining-up and unifying data elements within certain fields, so that things interface more smoothly, as well as substantial changes to the data elements themselves.
Garrison requirements have been raised in China as well as India to, hopefully, better reflect the political environment of the regions.
If using the special road movement pwhexe.dat file this serves to slow movement in the CBI Theatre.
Japan deploys its few new ships to protect the Invasion TFs coming from Babeldoap and Cam Rahn Bay as the Kido Butai steams towards its rendezvous with destiny at Pearl Harbor…
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
Michael and I designed and built these scenarios and I am stoked to take a serious shot at one or the other!
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
As Allies I like BtS, as Japan I like BtSL.
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
That's interesting. Why the difference?
Are you UP for a game Sir?
Are you UP for a game Sir?
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
As Allies I like the fuel guzzling, hard to rearm Yamotos.
As Japan I like the more efficient, easier to rearm Owaris.
As for a game, I think not with these as starting HRs.
Would like a few HR but am negotiable as to how they are set. These would be the HR areas for discussion:
1. Fighter Altitude when it comes to Sweeps.
2. Reasonable 4EB Guidelines.
I would not agree to anything that names these, so I think not.
As Japan I like the more efficient, easier to rearm Owaris.
As for a game, I think not with these as starting HRs.
Would like a few HR but am negotiable as to how they are set. These would be the HR areas for discussion:
1. Fighter Altitude when it comes to Sweeps.
2. Reasonable 4EB Guidelines.
I would not agree to anything that names these, so I think not.
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ny59giants
- Posts: 9883
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
Newest version has two Karate Class AKEs to reload the Yamatos that come out in mid-42. Don't get them sunk. [:-]
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[/center]RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum
Newest version has two Karate Class AKEs to reload the Yamatos that come out in mid-42. Don't get them sunk. [:-]
As the Allies, they would be high on my list of ships to sink.
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
ORIGINAL: BillBrown
As Allies I like the fuel guzzling, hard to rearm Yamotos.
As Japan I like the more efficient, easier to rearm Owaris.
As for a game, I think not with these as starting HRs.
Would like a few HR but am negotiable as to how they are set. These would be the HR areas for discussion:
1. Fighter Altitude when it comes to Sweeps.
2. Reasonable 4EB Guidelines.
I would not agree to anything that names these, so I think not.
Thought I would ask. Am open for discussion on the Fighter and 4EB topic but want something reasonable in place for HR.
Agree with the the BB differences.
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
My preference would be no house rules at all, just play the game. But I do like a few turn 1 restrictions, just to know where we are starting from.
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
John,
If you find no one else, I will pick up the gauntlet. My pace is slow, though, never more than a turn a day, and even less on weekends. But if you need to scrape the bottom of the barrel, I am game. I don't mind being humbled
If you find no one else, I will pick up the gauntlet. My pace is slow, though, never more than a turn a day, and even less on weekends. But if you need to scrape the bottom of the barrel, I am game. I don't mind being humbled
Tenno Heika Banzai!
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
ORIGINAL: Kitakami
John,
If you find no one else, I will pick up the gauntlet. My pace is slow, though, never more than a turn a day, and even less on weekends. But if you need to scrape the bottom of the barrel, I am game. I don't mind being humbled
You have helped with development over the years with some great suggestions (should say Bill as well) and I am looking for a slower paced game. Life is pretty quick these days with one boy entering High School and the other entering 7th Grade. What you describe is slower then what many might like but feels about right to me.
Kitakami: I would be intrigued to play you Sir. Would you have time to do an AAR?
What sort of HR would work?
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
Which Mod do you prefer?
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
John,
Time for an AAR is difficult. VERY. I can't commit to something good in that regard, sorry
Regarding HRs, I would be open to suggestions. Falken, my esteemed opponent (who suggested I applied for this), can tell you I am not too complicated in this regard.
As for which mod (Yamatos or Lite), I think that is a decision that should be up to the Japanese player. IIRC the Yamato was hidden from the Allies for quite a while.
The lack of a decent AAR might break the deal and, if it does, I understand. But I can't commit to something I will not do.
Cheers!
Time for an AAR is difficult. VERY. I can't commit to something good in that regard, sorry
Regarding HRs, I would be open to suggestions. Falken, my esteemed opponent (who suggested I applied for this), can tell you I am not too complicated in this regard.
As for which mod (Yamatos or Lite), I think that is a decision that should be up to the Japanese player. IIRC the Yamato was hidden from the Allies for quite a while.
The lack of a decent AAR might break the deal and, if it does, I understand. But I can't commit to something I will not do.
Cheers!
Tenno Heika Banzai!
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
I can run with an AAR and if things get wild-n-crazy you can toss stuff out.
Damn. I don't know which Scenario to choose. Will think on it.
Send me a PM/Email with your best email in it and we can bounce ideas around. Do you have a set of HR with Falken?
Damn. I don't know which Scenario to choose. Will think on it.
Send me a PM/Email with your best email in it and we can bounce ideas around. Do you have a set of HR with Falken?
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
Looks like we have a match. Will be starting an AAR pretty soon.
Thanks all!
Thanks all!
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
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Canoerebel
- Posts: 21099
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:21 pm
- Location: Northwestern Georgia, USA
- Contact:
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
That's good news. I'm looking forward to reading your AAR. Good luck and have fun.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
John will have fun all right. Me? Not so certain. But it is good to take the ego a notch or two to be battered about by a good player. Perhaps saying "morituri te salutamus" is in order. I do not think I will have the time to write a decent AAR, but since I will need all the help I can get, I might at least try to write something. We will see.
Tenno Heika Banzai!
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
Try Kitakami, I will try to provide helpful hints if necessary. I guess that means I need to not read Johns AAR.
I have always felt that doing a really good AAR takes up as much time as a game or a game and a half. It is a lot of work. Note that I have never done a good AAR in my life.
I have always felt that doing a really good AAR takes up as much time as a game or a game and a half. It is a lot of work. Note that I have never done a good AAR in my life.
RE: Searching for an Experienced Allied Player
The one reason I might try is precisely because I will need all the help I can getORIGINAL: BillBrown
Try Kitakami, I will try to provide helpful hints if necessary. I guess that means I need to not read Johns AAR.
I have always felt that doing a really good AAR takes up as much time as a game or a game and a half. It is a lot of work. Note that I have never done a good AAR in my life.
And I agree. Not only do I need time to do a turn (much more than everyone here hints at), but it takes me even more to do a half-decent AAR post. I don't think just copy-pasting combat reports is enough. It needs maps, thoughts, commentary. That takes me a LOT of time. That is why my game with Falken is with 2-day turns. We would never advance otherwise!
Tenno Heika Banzai!