ORIGINAL: BrianG
Very impressive counterattack.
Those are huge Russian tank losses.
German PZs are “Supermen” ;-p
****couldnt help myself but it is true
Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21
ORIGINAL: BrianG
Very impressive counterattack.
Those are huge Russian tank losses.
ORIGINAL: chaos45
Most those big soviet tank losses were from lots of zoc's on retreat paths. The Soviets dont get the super reduced zoc losses like the Germans do.
So those soviet units prolly had a fair amount of damaged tanks from the attack battles, then had more damaged/destroyed in the german counterattacks and then in turn almost all their damaged tanks got converted to total losses due to the path of zoc'd retreats is my guess.
The problem is alot of German tank losses were coming from retreats and zoc'd retreats in the past as the after battle losses were higher than battle losses...then a certain german player complained loudly and alot about it and several things were put into the game to limit and vastly reduce German retreat losses.....and thus u now have almost untouchable German panzer divisions.
ORIGINAL: STEF78
Some statements on the forum suggest that the game is biased due to the "german panzer surpermen"
In fact, past 1943, Pzd are mighty (CV between 20 and 35) but certainly not invincible.
I've played more than 10 GC past mid 1943 and 5 past spring 1944. And I play both side. I will share some thoughts about late war from my experience.
Mightiest units on each side
Russia: Guard Rifle Corps, ther Cv can reach easily 30
German: Pzd (cf above)
Main other assets on each side
Russia:
- ability to create units
- NM increasing
- IL2 and IL2M
- artillery
German
- best leaders
- ability to trade ground against time and choose the place where to fight
Main weakness
Russia: None, Red army 2.0 is a monster, but it cannot choose where to fight
German:
- Manpower shortage
- NM declining
- arrival of lower quality replacements
Best way to win from mid 1943 to the end
WITE is about encirclement and destruction. No way to win without that.
Russia:
1) Smash first the Luftwaffe, lots of german fighter squadrons withdraw from mid 1943 to mid 1944. Build fighter units, smash the german fighters. Losing 1 for 4 isn't an issue.
2) Do a tactical bombing of each front hex and above all of each german Pzd twice a turn. You will loose lot of Il2M. it doesn't matter. Pzd will get losses and fatigue. it's fine
3) Fill you rifle corps with 3 sapper régiments or 2 sapper régiments and 1 tank regiment. And rotate your units. With a good artillery support, no german stack can resist
4) Do recon to detect any weakness on the the german frontline (Stelteck had twice the opportunity this summer but didn't detect it)
5) Use your Mech/tank units in order to exploit the breakthrough and rampage german rear areas, not to create the breakthrough.
6) Seal your encirclement firmly, the german will do his best to save his units trapped.
6) Think as the german (I have a precise idea that I don't want to give as long as the game isn't finished)
German:
1) Use the ground (river, marsh, rough, city)
2) Shorten your lines
3) Keep some mobile units in reserve, you will need them.
4) Trade ground against time
5) Earn victories to keep morale high. As said pelton, "morale is king". It's true
6) Prevent major encirclement. Once you suffer one, game is over.
Of course, maybe I'm wrong on some ideas, but it's what I learnt from my WITE gaming experience.
ORIGINAL: chaos45
HL- I'm pretty sure thats what I said...as the game was tweaked to lower German retreat losses several patches ago....prolly a year ago or so...and since then its become impossible to cause attrition to German tank formations.
At the same time they reduced German retreat losses they also added a code to reduce German tank losses in total from combat if I remember right....you have to remember this game has been patched a ton and when you keep stacking benefits and tweaks to one side that side or even units eventually become overpowering.
You can thank alot of these Super German patches to Pelton- not sure what name he is hiding under now but I'm sure hes still here just using a new name.
Stef- pretty much spot on, on tactics.
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
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Morale is not King!!!!!!! .../... But for me Unit "Experience" is king and will continue to play that way. .../...
ORIGINAL: STEF78
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
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Morale is not King!!!!!!! .../... But for me Unit "Experience" is king and will continue to play that way. .../...
I often agree with HLYA. But not this time.
You just need to set it up right, so not quite Supermen... But yes, they are overpowered.The retreats are based on the experience of the units & is not solely (although Germans have higher experience in almost all units) a German attribute. The less experience the more loses, pretty simple. Take the same scenario that happened to the Russians here in this game and apply that to the Germans. You will see that the German PZ Divs in 41 if forced to retreat you will 100% see the germans losing less than 30 tanks retreating through those same ZOC's. I have done & been on the both sides of this fence. So, there is no "IFS", "ANDS", or "BUTTS" about it. The German PZ Divs are SUPERMEN.
ORIGINAL: tyronec
You just need to set it up right, so not quite Supermen... But yes, they are overpowered.The retreats are based on the experience of the units & is not solely (although Germans have higher experience in almost all units) a German attribute. The less experience the more loses, pretty simple. Take the same scenario that happened to the Russians here in this game and apply that to the Germans. You will see that the German PZ Divs in 41 if forced to retreat you will 100% see the germans losing less than 30 tanks retreating through those same ZOC's. I have done & been on the both sides of this fence. So, there is no "IFS", "ANDS", or "BUTTS" about it. The German PZ Divs are SUPERMEN.
Nice idea!ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
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By the way, Looks like I may be coming to France spring of next year. Will have to meet up with you. .../...