Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

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MuguNiner
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Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by MuguNiner »

Greetings and salutations,

I have made it to Jan 44! The allies have not taken any base hex in the 21 hex count by sea of Saigon, Takeo, Tokyo. I have an amphibious task force landing troops at Biak NG. The TF was attacked by a group of Kates. Two of which went Kamikaze on my battleships.

Do IJAF pilots go Kamikaze after/on 1/1/44 if their aircraft is doomed in the attack?

I am running two day turns and the next day the Chinese army took Hai Phong. Would the AI know that?

Thanks
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Lowpe
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by Lowpe »

As the game goes on, Japanese pilots increasingly go banzai into ships or bombers voluntarily sometimes upwards of 25 percent.. A kamikaze unit will all go banzai.
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Lokasenna
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by Lokasenna »

The random kamikaze attack you suffered there, the 2 Kates, are the random ones that occur sometimes as the war progresses.

If it were a full-on kamikaze attack, it would have been the whole unit of Kates doing a kamikaze run. At the bottom, it would say something like "27x B5N2 Kate flying as kamikaze" instead of "27x B5N2 Kate dropping torpedoes from 200 ft"
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by crsutton »

Had a betty pilot go kamikaze and cause an ammo explosion on the USS Alabama. May he rot in hell...
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by Admiral DadMan »

TENNO HEIKA!! BANZAI!!!

BANZAI!!!
BANZAI!!!
BANZAI!!!
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by rustysi »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Had a betty pilot go kamikaze and cause an ammo explosion on the USS Alabama. May he rot in hell...

Now, now... Be nice, he was just dying for the Emperor.[:D]
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MuguNiner
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by MuguNiner »

Well, I just got hammered by a Kamikaze group. [:@] Lost the Hornet and several other ships were hit. There were 250+ CAP, but only about 30 CAP shot at the escort and judy's, and for a very short time! [X(] The Judy's flew through the CAP like nimble ninjas! The CAP just did not get many shots off at them...

I had my cap laddered from 5000 to 20000 feet. Are the KK's flying lower/higher? The combat report did not reveal their altitude. How do you AFB's defend against these terrors? [&:]

Thanks

-----------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Tinian at 109,96

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 104 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 7
D4Y2 Judy x 35

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 284

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
D4Y2 Judy: 20 destroyed
D4Y2 Judy: 2 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
DD Bache
CV Essex
CV Yorktown
CVL Belleau Wood, Kamikaze hits 1
CV Wasp, Kamikaze hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Cowpens
CL Boise
CA Baltimore, Kamikaze hits 1
BB South Dakota, Kamikaze hits 1
CVL Monterey, Kamikaze hits 2
BB Alabama
CV Saratoga

Aircraft Attacking:
32 x D4Y2 Judy flying as kamikaze
Kamikaze: 1 x 500 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VF-1 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 13 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
14 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-3 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-42 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes
12 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 13 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
13 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-8 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
12 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-9 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-10 with F6F-3 Hellcat (2 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
16 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-16 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
16 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-71 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 8000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
14 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-22 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
11 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-23 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-24 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 15 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
18 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-25 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 15 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
15 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-30 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 20 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 9 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
9 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-31 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 8000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-32 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 6000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
11 planes vectored on to bombers

Ammo storage explosion on CV Wasp
Fuel storage explosion on CV Wasp
Fuel storage explosion on CVL Belleau Wood
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by btd64 »

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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by BBfanboy »

The short engagement time would seem to indicate they were at low level. I think engagements take place when they are in visual range and low altitude delays their appearance over the horizon.
I am surprised only one DD is on your TF list. How many did you have escorting?
What range did you have the CAP set at? If the range was more than about one hex, they could have been dispersed too far away to get back and engage.
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by Chickenboy »

Bad joss for Wasp. Two kamikaze hits and she suffers BOTH an Ammo storage explosion AND a Fuel storage explosion? [X(]
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by Macclan5 »

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

The short engagement time would seem to indicate they were at low level. I think engagements take place when they are in visual range and low altitude delays their appearance over the horizon.
I am surprised only one DD is on your TF list. How many did you have escorting?
What range did you have the CAP set at? If the range was more than about one hex, they could have been dispersed too far away to get back and engage.


Yes... I would have to agree.

Firstly it could be luck or bad luck above all. A series of poor role of the dice on random modifiers.



But there are a number of further details you might provide if looking for advice. The experts here are quite generous with sufficient details.


1) The TF as indicated is heavy in BB and CV CVL

Did you have a larger number of DD in task force ? CA ? CLAA ? CL ? They don't appear in summary.

Perhaps in another TF within same hex ?

2) What were the CAP settings ?

Lots of Hellcats rose.. 204 so seeming 60% (?) or better on CAP further you indicate layered between 5000 and 20000

Range = 7 ?

Any dedicated to Range = 1 ?

Were the Hellcats on low CAP say 5000 and 10000 feet in 'lower' percentage CAP ? i.e. Escort CAP 20% Rest 10% ?




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Lowpe
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: MuguNiner

VF-8 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
12 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-9 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers


I surmise here is your problem...you might have a range of greater than 0 for the low cap. When in harms way, put 80% of planes in your low CAP squadron (even 100% sometimes) at range of 0.

The bombers attack altitude was 6 or 7 K, usually 3K less than what they are spotted at although there can be some variance there.

So the bombers flew in at 7K, got hit by flak, and what planes could respond, and then they attacked very low since they were kamikazes.

Hellcats aren't that much faster than Judys...I believe the D4Y2 is the fastest Judy there is.
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by Dili »

Sort of related. Is there a way to prevent Kamikaze attacks by non Kamikaze units as Japanese player?
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by Admiral DadMan »

Do you mean by an entire sqaudron? Yes

By induhviduals? In a word: no.
ORIGINAL: Dili

Sort of related. Is there a way to prevent Kamikaze attacks by non Kamikaze units as Japanese player?
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Dili
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by Dili »

Thanks.
Would less aggressive squadron commander somewhat tame the individual pilot? or it is just an random individual hardcode from squadron behavior?
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by Admiral DadMan »

Random hardcode.
Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by Dili »

Ok thx.
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MuguNiner
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by MuguNiner »

Thanks for the replies. After reading them and looking at my cap settings, most were set to 10 hexes... The one that was set to 0 was only 40% cap... So, looks like I need to rejigger the cap. I believe what you are saying is to dedicate some groups to 0 hexes and 100% cap. Escorts will have to be 100% escort. So, lots of tweaking ahead.

All of the ships listed were in the same TF with the exception of the Essex. I had three CV TF's in the hex at the time of the attack. All TF's consisted of 25 ships and of those each TF had 12 DD's. I believe that the list is of ships that were targeted by the kamikazes.

Which brings up a question: If a group has become kamikaze and not all hit their target, do the live to fly another day or are they considered downed and in the drink? The animations and sound effects suggest a bomb missed and hit the water.
Allied Ships
DD Bache
CV Essex
CV Yorktown
CVL Belleau Wood, Kamikaze hits 1
CV Wasp, Kamikaze hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Cowpens
CL Boise
CA Baltimore, Kamikaze hits 1
BB South Dakota, Kamikaze hits 1
CVL Monterey, Kamikaze hits 2
BB Alabama
CV Saratoga
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Dili
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by Dili »

You should not have 25 ships combat TF's that can bring problems including collisions and wacky battle results specially at night. Use no more than 12-15 at max.
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RE: Jan 44 and Kamikaze attacks

Post by PaxMondo »

And only that big for CV TF's ... SCTF's are generally much smaller ...
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