The Accidental War Obvert vs Lowpe
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: Soviets Activated....
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kuantan at 52,80
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 17
Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 24
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
No Allied losses
Allied Ships
DD Banckert
CL Enterprise
CL Ceres
CL Capetown, Bomb hits 1
CL Dauntless, Bomb hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 2000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
CAP engaged:
18th FG/6th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
8th FG/35th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
8th FG/36th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
15th FG/46th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 17
Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 24
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
No Allied losses
Allied Ships
DD Banckert
CL Enterprise
CL Ceres
CL Capetown, Bomb hits 1
CL Dauntless, Bomb hits 1
Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 2000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
CAP engaged:
18th FG/6th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
8th FG/35th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
8th FG/36th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
15th FG/46th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
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RE: Soviets Activated....
Thank you for the detail.
So if I well understand, the raid was detected at the not at all awful distance of 36 nm, but still estimated time to target 15 minutes? isn't it a lot ?
12000 feet is also not that high either..
Cruise speed of the Kate isn't stratospheric either, so maybe partial cloud + 10000 feet altitude gradient + some favorable die roll - because we need some luck also sometimes - all combined summed up in short time before target?
Did interceptor try intercept after attack?
I guess Obvert was disappointed and a bit surprised by this...
So if I well understand, the raid was detected at the not at all awful distance of 36 nm, but still estimated time to target 15 minutes? isn't it a lot ?
12000 feet is also not that high either..
Cruise speed of the Kate isn't stratospheric either, so maybe partial cloud + 10000 feet altitude gradient + some favorable die roll - because we need some luck also sometimes - all combined summed up in short time before target?
Did interceptor try intercept after attack?
I guess Obvert was disappointed and a bit surprised by this...
RE: Soviets Activated....
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
...
Does anyone know which is better at spotting minefields: recon or naval search?
...
RO-boats are good at detecting mines around a port, sadly... [X(]
The Commander's job is to orchestrate and direct the three major dimensions of combat - space, time and force. Shattered Sword, the Untold Story of the Battle of Midway
RE: Soviets Activated....
This is my first low altitude attack of the game, I have had several high altitude attacks previously. Here I was simply trying to target some small craft in the straits of Malacca in a low risk way without fighter escorts and with disposable pilots...the bombers never flew against them. I have always had problems in attacking single ship targets with bombers...strafing fighters and fighter bombers will attack them I have found out in past games.
Here is the afternoon attack. There must be some kind of aggression/detection level/value of target/range formula that applies...it just seems real odd that the the very timid leader would fly under these circumstances.
In general I usually like the timid leaders...especially for the starting Betty/Nell superstar pilots. However it can be frustrating when they don't fly even under good circumstances.
Edit: I think if Obvert didn't have 3 games going those plane units would have been flying at different altitudes.
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kuantan at 52,80
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes
Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 11
Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 24
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 3 damaged
No Allied losses
Allied Ships
CL Capetown
CL Dauntless
CL Ceres
Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 2000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
CAP engaged:
18th FG/6th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
8th FG/35th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
8th FG/36th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
15th FG/46th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
Here is the afternoon attack. There must be some kind of aggression/detection level/value of target/range formula that applies...it just seems real odd that the the very timid leader would fly under these circumstances.
In general I usually like the timid leaders...especially for the starting Betty/Nell superstar pilots. However it can be frustrating when they don't fly even under good circumstances.
Edit: I think if Obvert didn't have 3 games going those plane units would have been flying at different altitudes.
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kuantan at 52,80
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes
Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 11
Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 24
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 3 damaged
No Allied losses
Allied Ships
CL Capetown
CL Dauntless
CL Ceres
Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 2000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
CAP engaged:
18th FG/6th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
8th FG/35th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
8th FG/36th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
15th FG/46th FS with P-39D Airacobra (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
RE: Soviets Activated....
ORIGINAL: adarbrauner
Did interceptor try intercept after attack?
I believe in the morning attack there was a small after attack round of combat where one Kate was splashed. The afternoon attack, in worse weather, was in and out before the fighters could react.
That CAP was simply very poorly set up by Obvert, and is not typical of him.
RE: Soviets Activated....
I got a 1944 turn from Obvert from one of his other games...so another turn will have to wait till tomorrow.
These things happen when you play multiple games.[;)]
These things happen when you play multiple games.[;)]
RE: Soviets Activated....
ORIGINAL: DanSez
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
...
Does anyone know which is better at spotting minefields: recon or naval search?
...
RO-boats are good at detecting mines around a port, sadly... [X(]
One use minesweepers to be exact.[:)]
RE: Soviets Activated....
A quiet day...spies report back that prewar and in a slightly different universe (scenario 1, unmodded) the defensive battery of Vlad is quite impressive...manned by elite Rooskies with a stash of vodka to keep their morale up.
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RE: Soviets Activated....
Spies also reported this big artillery unit... a dozen guns.
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RE: Soviets Activated....
And Soviet ground forces are capably led. But then we knew that already, right.
Iosif Rodionovich Apanasenko (April 15, 1890 – August 5, 1943) was a Soviet division commander. He fought in the Imperial Russian Army in World War I before going over to the Bolsheviks in the subsequent civil war. He received the Cross of St. George three times from the Russian Empire. He was made a Komkor on November 11, 1935 and promoted to Komandarm 2nd rank in 1939. He commanded forces in both Central Asia and the Russian Far East. He was made a colonel general in 1940 before being promoted to general of the army in February 1941. He was killed in the Soviet counteroffensive at Kursk. He was a recipient of the Order of Lenin and the Order of the Red Banner.
Iosif Rodionovich Apanasenko (April 15, 1890 – August 5, 1943) was a Soviet division commander. He fought in the Imperial Russian Army in World War I before going over to the Bolsheviks in the subsequent civil war. He received the Cross of St. George three times from the Russian Empire. He was made a Komkor on November 11, 1935 and promoted to Komandarm 2nd rank in 1939. He commanded forces in both Central Asia and the Russian Far East. He was made a colonel general in 1940 before being promoted to general of the army in February 1941. He was killed in the Soviet counteroffensive at Kursk. He was a recipient of the Order of Lenin and the Order of the Red Banner.
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RE: Soviets Activated....
Rarely post, but I read your excellent AAR's regularly.
If I am not mistaken, I did not think the Soviets had any ACM's? So, at a decay of 1% per day and you are approximately 200 days in, the minefields would have decayed quite a bit by now (0.99^200 is approximately 0.15 - so if they started at 500 mines you'd be looking at only 75 now).
Unless he has laid new minefields defensively, then his minefields will become less and less of an issue.
This is not to say anything on the strategy of bombarding in general or encourage it. Seems to me that the strategic landscape looks like this now:
1) Soviet front - stabilized. Some 2,000 AV of Soviet troops will withdraw end of year. Soviet air replacements minimal excepting the Il-2. Although the Aleutians/Kuriles may not be defended adequately yet.
2) China front - stabilized.
3) Malaya - no chance to change land situation w/o isolating Malaya and reducing supply. On the plus side, he has put an awful lot of troops into here.
4) Air war - starting to stabilize. Remains to be seen if you can achieve air superiority in a region like SE Asia/Malaya. But, you have advanced fighters coming on line in numbers.
5) Naval - disadvantage in surface ships? Perhaps advantage in carrier air. Japan does have interior lines so you can mass easier the bulk of your forces.
6) Economic - you will need fuel/oil to power supply production and aircraft production. W/o significant expansion perhaps you will not need so much for the navy and shipping (or shipbuilding). By mid-43 you will be facing a potential significant air campaign against your HI bases from Manchuria.
Seems to me like conditions #4/#5 may last for perhaps up to 6 months so the pertinent question is how do you use this time. In my opinion, and it doesn't count for much, you need to mass your forces in an area where you can make a difference. In all the games I have seen turn early towards the Allies, the Japanese have tried to do too much at one time, thus a high dispersion of force. To that end, I would think that your priorities would be:
1) Secure Northern Malaya - build airfields from which to interdict the straights and Northern Sumatra of shipping & supplies coming in.
2) Secure Western Java - gain access to the Indian ocean, cut off south/east routes into Malaya & Sumatra. Frees up a path for KB and Japan's carrier air to become active interdicting supplies and troops into SE Asia/Malaya. Makes the calculus of each operation a lot harder for the Allies and leaves some doubt that any forces committed (naval, land) to Malaya will be ultimately lost.
3) Once this is done, high altitude bombing at just the limit of flak. Remember, if one gun fires in a unit, the whole unit is assumed to use ammo (supplies). You may not create a lot of hits, but, you can drain supply from his Malaya forces fast.
4) Then land offensive.
5) Finally, return to China & Manchukuo. Remember one thing here - your ships can go quite a ways up the river across from Sakhalin - even landing a major amphib force into the interior industry city. From here, with a well co-ordinated operation and some luck, maybe you can cut off the Russian army around Vlad. Then repeat #3 above with bombardments as well from sea.
6) Lastly, turn to China & defense.
My two cents, worth generally about less than one.
Keep up the good game and absolutely love your AAR's and play approach.
If I am not mistaken, I did not think the Soviets had any ACM's? So, at a decay of 1% per day and you are approximately 200 days in, the minefields would have decayed quite a bit by now (0.99^200 is approximately 0.15 - so if they started at 500 mines you'd be looking at only 75 now).
Unless he has laid new minefields defensively, then his minefields will become less and less of an issue.
This is not to say anything on the strategy of bombarding in general or encourage it. Seems to me that the strategic landscape looks like this now:
1) Soviet front - stabilized. Some 2,000 AV of Soviet troops will withdraw end of year. Soviet air replacements minimal excepting the Il-2. Although the Aleutians/Kuriles may not be defended adequately yet.
2) China front - stabilized.
3) Malaya - no chance to change land situation w/o isolating Malaya and reducing supply. On the plus side, he has put an awful lot of troops into here.
4) Air war - starting to stabilize. Remains to be seen if you can achieve air superiority in a region like SE Asia/Malaya. But, you have advanced fighters coming on line in numbers.
5) Naval - disadvantage in surface ships? Perhaps advantage in carrier air. Japan does have interior lines so you can mass easier the bulk of your forces.
6) Economic - you will need fuel/oil to power supply production and aircraft production. W/o significant expansion perhaps you will not need so much for the navy and shipping (or shipbuilding). By mid-43 you will be facing a potential significant air campaign against your HI bases from Manchuria.
Seems to me like conditions #4/#5 may last for perhaps up to 6 months so the pertinent question is how do you use this time. In my opinion, and it doesn't count for much, you need to mass your forces in an area where you can make a difference. In all the games I have seen turn early towards the Allies, the Japanese have tried to do too much at one time, thus a high dispersion of force. To that end, I would think that your priorities would be:
1) Secure Northern Malaya - build airfields from which to interdict the straights and Northern Sumatra of shipping & supplies coming in.
2) Secure Western Java - gain access to the Indian ocean, cut off south/east routes into Malaya & Sumatra. Frees up a path for KB and Japan's carrier air to become active interdicting supplies and troops into SE Asia/Malaya. Makes the calculus of each operation a lot harder for the Allies and leaves some doubt that any forces committed (naval, land) to Malaya will be ultimately lost.
3) Once this is done, high altitude bombing at just the limit of flak. Remember, if one gun fires in a unit, the whole unit is assumed to use ammo (supplies). You may not create a lot of hits, but, you can drain supply from his Malaya forces fast.
4) Then land offensive.
5) Finally, return to China & Manchukuo. Remember one thing here - your ships can go quite a ways up the river across from Sakhalin - even landing a major amphib force into the interior industry city. From here, with a well co-ordinated operation and some luck, maybe you can cut off the Russian army around Vlad. Then repeat #3 above with bombardments as well from sea.
6) Lastly, turn to China & defense.
My two cents, worth generally about less than one.
Keep up the good game and absolutely love your AAR's and play approach.
RE: Soviets Activated....
Thanks for reading and the comments[:)]...pretty good.
You left off political points...
You left off political points...
RE: Soviets Activated....
June 13th, 1942
A minor ambush.
A minor ambush.
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RE: Soviets Activated....
Boy, we can nail the big ones, cant't we?[:'(]
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RE: Soviets Activated....
So, I am nominally thinking tomorrow might be the big strike.
Huge strike on Chungking
KB strike of Singerapore shipping (BB, CV, CA present)
Sweeps of Singers and Malacca
I think I am going to hold off on bombarding Vlad for several days...one 36cm battleship is in place, but I might want to use the Nagato which needs two more days in port. I will use the 36cm gun platforms to hopefully catch the ships fleeing.
Huge strike on Chungking
KB strike of Singerapore shipping (BB, CV, CA present)
Sweeps of Singers and Malacca
I think I am going to hold off on bombarding Vlad for several days...one 36cm battleship is in place, but I might want to use the Nagato which needs two more days in port. I will use the 36cm gun platforms to hopefully catch the ships fleeing.
RE: Soviets Activated....
EXCITEMENT!!!
Stop announcing those things, now I might break my F5 key again.
Stop announcing those things, now I might break my F5 key again.
RE: Soviets Activated....
A lot depends upon weather, detection levels, fatigue etc.
I converted another 27 plane light bomber sentai to Nicks, another squadron to Tojo IIa.
There are 13 Sally/Nell/Betty squadrons tasked with hitting Chungking.
I converted another 27 plane light bomber sentai to Nicks, another squadron to Tojo IIa.
There are 13 Sally/Nell/Betty squadrons tasked with hitting Chungking.
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- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:40 am
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RE: Soviets Activated....
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
A lot depends upon weather, detection levels, fatigue etc.
I converted another 27 plane light bomber sentai to Nicks, another squadron to Tojo IIa.
There are 13 Sally/Nell/Betty squadrons tasked with hitting Chungking.
squadrons or groups? there's a difference of 18 vehicles each...330 vs 125 total....
RE: Soviets Activated....
They are all size 27 to 45.
RE: Soviets Activated....
Almost worth the cost of the torpedo! [:D]ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Boy, we can nail the big ones, cant't we?[:'(]
Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home