An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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Turn 3. Jan/Feb 1940. Franco-Italian Border.

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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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Turn 3. Jan/Feb 1940. Western Libya and Egypt.

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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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Turn 3. Jan/Feb 1940. North and Central China.

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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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Turn 3. Jan/Feb 1940. Southern China.

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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

Post by tverse »

Sorry for the interruption, but in post #147 why was the BB Scharnhorst disorganized?

FYI - as newbie I am enjoying the AAR.
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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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ORIGINAL: tverse

Sorry for the interruption, but in post #147 why was the BB Scharnhorst disorganized?

FYI - as newbie I am enjoying the AAR.
Thanks for following!

The Scharnhorst was used for the attempt to initiate a naval combat, which results in it being flipped (i.e., disorganized). The rule is that any unit used to either attempt intercept or initiate naval combat is disorganized.
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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

Post by tverse »

ORIGINAL: rkr1958
ORIGINAL: tverse

Sorry for the interruption, but in post #147 why was the BB Scharnhorst disorganized?

FYI - as newbie I am enjoying the AAR.
Thanks for following!

The Scharnhorst was used for the attempt to initiate a naval combat, which results in it being flipped (i.e., disorganized). The rule is that any unit used to either attempt intercept or initiate naval combat is disorganized.
That is what I suspected. Why did you pick that ship as opposed to a lower quality ship like the CL Nurnberg? Does a better ship give a better chance at the search? Isn't there a disadvantage to having a ship disorganized?
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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

Post by rkr1958 »

ORIGINAL: tverse
ORIGINAL: rkr1958
ORIGINAL: tverse

Sorry for the interruption, but in post #147 why was the BB Scharnhorst disorganized?

FYI - as newbie I am enjoying the AAR.
Thanks for following!

The Scharnhorst was used for the attempt to initiate a naval combat, which results in it being flipped (i.e., disorganized). The rule is that any unit used to either attempt intercept or initiate naval combat is disorganized.
That is what I suspected. Why did you pick that ship as opposed to a lower quality ship like the CL Nurnberg? Does a better ship give a better chance at the search? Isn't there a disadvantage to having a ship disorganized?
Your chance of finding is independent of which unit you use to initiate. You can even initiate with a sub, and then choose not commit subs to the battle.

Honestly, I probably should have picked the accompanying CA or CL, which would have cost only 0.05 in oil vs 0.1 for the Scharnorst. I'm so use to playing without the, "Cruisers in Flames" optional rule which in that case the cost is 0.1 oil to reorg a CA or BB.

Now in regards to strategy and which unit to use, if I pretty sure I'm going to remain in the sea area after the current round of combat (if it occurs), I'll initiate with the unit that I think is the one most likely to be targeted in that round. Otherwise, I tend to pick the one in the lowest sea box and/or with the lowest cost to reorganize.
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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

Post by brian brian »

I think a good way to go is to pick a unit in the highest possible box to disorganize to initiate a search - on the chance that only that high-box is activated for a naval combat during the current impulse, and takes a combat result such as Abort. It that happens, the lower box units will still be available to search on a subsequent impulse.

Picking a good or bad unit for the search is like being an optimist or a pessimist. An optimist picks the CL because they are going to "roll well" and fight a surface combat with surprise in their favor - the CL will absorb the enemy combat result and then the BB is available to do the search in a future impulse. A pessimist might pick the BB worried they will lose the search roll and the enemy CV planes will target the most valuable enemy target - the BB - but then one never knows if the enemy might more highly value the still organized ships that can call a search in the future - the CL (which then might ultimately protect the BB, who knows).


Not including the U-Boats in a Kriegsmarine sortie would be a bit un-historical I would say. Hitler was both an optimist and a pessimist, sometimes on the same day, but Raeder and Doenitz were realists - their U-Boats attacked, always. You can't make an omelette of sunken merchant ships (or surprised enemy CVs) if you don't risk a few eggs. The historical U-Boats had already gone 1-for-2 on British fleet carriers by this point in the war.
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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

Post by anarchyintheuk »

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

By the way on page 1 of the Op order, under Task Force SIXTEEN there are two references to, "1 DL". My understanding of USN hull designation's is that DL stands for "Destroyer Leader", which was created in the 20's I believe. However, the first USN DL, DL-1, the Norfolk, wasn't commissioned until 1953 well after this period.

I was wondering if anyone knew what this designation meant back in 1942 where Nimitz issued this order?

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Sorry, if this was already answered, but I just started reading the aar. Really enjoying it.

The DLs were the Porter class destroyers USS Phelps (DesRon1) and USS Balch (DesRon6). It was an unofficial designation. The entire class were commissioned as DDs.
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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Sorry, if this was already answered, but I just started reading the aar. Really enjoying it.

The DLs were the Porter class destroyers USS Phelps (DesRon1) and USS Balch (DesRon6). It was an unofficial designation. The entire class were commissioned as DDs.
No, it hasn't been answered yet. Mystery (at least for me) solved. Thanks!
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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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Turn 4. Mar/Apr 1940. The Initiative.
1. Germany’s II FJR corps is officially formed and based in Frankfurt. Col Kruk Student commands the assault battalion of the 1st division of II FJR corps. His 500 paratroopers (3 companies of 160 men each and 20 support staff) are well trained, thoroughly briefing and know the score. Come rain, shine or snow they’ll likely be dropped into combat somewhere in the Low Countries, possibly within the week. Only he and key members of his staff know the specific location; Rotterdam in Holland. Col Student takes pride in the preparation and determination of his men and know that his battalion is likely to be the vanguard of a blitzkrieg into the Low Counties. Of course, the timing of all this depends on the weather. Storms, and even blizzards, can or often do occur this time of year. No use worrying about things you can’t control. Col Student orders his men to get some rest, no telling how long it’ll be before they get this chance again.
2. Initiative. Axis 9+1 =10, Allies=6. The axis hold the initiative, but do they wish to move first or second? Holland and Rotterdam are waiting, but what about the weather? OKW checks with HQ’s forecast sections, the report if favorable. There’s an 80% chance of fine, rain or snow in the West. Armed with an 80% that Case Yellow will be a go, the Germans decide to seize the and move first. This decision is rewarded with a high weather roll, which produces fine weather across the globe (i.e., fine in all six weather zones). The call goes out to Col Student, “Get your paratroopers prep and ready!”, he’s told.

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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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(3) Less than an hour after receiving the call to get his troopers ready, Col Student get a second one telling him to stand down but remain on alert. Germany has decided to take a combine and will attempt to take Rotterdam via a combined amphibious assault and overland attack, land combat. The German paratroopers will be held in reserve in case the amphibious task force, consisting of the 14th SS infantry division loaded aboard the heavy cruiser Graf Spee and escorted by the heavy cruisers Admiral Scheer and Deutschland, fails in their mission to land 14th SS in Rotterdam. If successful, however, the II FJR will be of great use in the subsequent invasion of Belgium.
(4) Patrolling overhead the German task force is a squadron of He 115c float planes, sent out in the naval air phase and providing vital reconnaissance support. The presence of the NAV in the same box as the ships, provides an increase in Germany’s search number from 3 to 4. Due to a foul up last turn by the RN during the return to base (RTB), the allies don’t have any ships in the 3-box. They only have the 2 French BB and 1 CVL in the 2-box, which means that their search number is 2 instead of 3. Editors notes: The RN foul up was real and not scripted. I was working through the RTB phase late after a long day and I just “sloppily” overlooked keeping a number of RN ships from the 4-box and downed to the 3-box at sea in the North Sea. A failure of command either on the part of the task force commander, if his ship received the command to stay, or from the Admiralty if the command was never sent or sent to late. A board of inquiry will only be called to investigate if this foul up results in the German force not being detected when it should have been (i.e., the allies roll a 3). Note, no RN carrier has a plane with range greater than 3, therefore, the presence of a carrier with an RN force if it would have stayed would not have improved their search number above 3. Therefore, 3 is the number that brings in a board of inquiry.

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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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Meanwhile in the North Atlantic.
(5) Admiral Raeder’s surface raiders, BB Scharnhorst, CA Blucher and CL Numberg, are ordered to find and sink the 10 allied CP’s operating in the North Atlantic. However, the search rolls that are need are reversed and it’s the Germans that are surprise and. Only the allies find and have 8 SP’s. The three heavy RN cruisers decide to exploit their drop on the KM ships close the range to engage. They use all 8 SP’s to increase expected damage from D,2A to X,D,3A and ignore any potential damage to their own ships. The Germans apply the X to the CL Numberg, which not only passes that damage roll passes the next one too, which is a D. The CL Numberg took hits from the RN of expected X, D and managed to survive, which D and A results instead. The remaining shots (3A) resulted in the abort of both the Blucher and Scharnhorst. In return, the 3 RN CA’s much face expected hits of 2D, 1A. They come out somewhat decently with 1 CA being damaged and aborted and a second being aborted.
(6) The German raiders decide to leave and flee through two sea areas with allied ships wanting to intercept (i.e., the Faeroes Gap and North Sea). Both interception attempts miss badly and the 3 German ship make it safely to Keil with the Numberg being put in dry dock.


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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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North Sea.
(7) As the three German surfaces raiders are slipping by the French ships in the North Sea and entering the safety of Keil, the German invasion force consisting of the three heavy cruisers carrying the 14th SS infantry division are moving fast along the coast in the hopes of being able to deliver their invaders to Rotterdam. The Germans choose not to attempt to initiate in the North Sea, but of course the French do. The RAF reacts a fighter to the 0-box and the searches produce rolls of 10 for the allies and 6 for the Germans. Neither side finds.
(8) The 14th SS invades Rotterdam and is joined by I corps in a land combat. The raw odds at this point is +10. However, these odds are driven by 2 notionals, 1 of which will be eliminate by the elimination of the adjacent NED corps defending Amsterdam. So attack order is significant here. Just by waiting to attack Rotterdam after taking Amsterdam the odds with double from +10 to +20, which is almost automatic. A roll of 2 would result in the elimination of one unit, which would be the 14th .
(9) For this specific tactical situation it was more effective for air factors to be used in ground support than for ground. For example, a normal 2 factor LND during this surprise impulse would have a 36% of disorganizing the lone corps in Amsterdam and, thus providing +2 to the land combat. However, that same LND if used in ground support would provide 4 attack factors that would (100%) increase the land combat odds by +2. So, 36% chance with ground strike or 100% chance with ground support of adding +2 to the land combat. It’s fairly obvious which one is better.
(10) With a combine, Germany is limited to 6 land moves. Really 5, because of the absolute necessity of saving 1 land move for the invasion by the 14th SS division. Nothing’s more frustrating, or devastating, that having the prefect invasion planned and then not saving the necessary land moves for the units to invaded. Also, with a combine, one must be conscious of the number of land combats one gets. Each hex invaded, whether occupied by an enemy unit or not, counts as one land combat. Though, a hex both invaded and attack by overland forces still only counts as one land combat. In this specific case, Germany is attacking both Rotterdam and Amsterdam so they’re using 2 of their 3 land combats.
(11) The raw odds, prior to air and naval support, for the Amsterdam attack was +11.5. However, after adding 9 x 2 factors of ground support (from 2 Stuka squadrons) and 2 factors of naval bombardment, the odds moved to an automatic +21.5. In the cold hard light of this explanation, I now see that I made a minor tactical error. I say minor, because the error only results in a 1% chance of hurting the Germans. To explain, if 1 of the 2 factors of shore bombardment used against Amsterdam had been shifted to Rotterdam then both land combats would have been at +21 and automatic. As it stands now the Amsterdam land combat will go off at +21.5 (automatic) and, following that attack, the Rotterdam land combat will go off at +20 (99% no losses). However all this turns out to be academic, German takes Amsterdam and does not roll a 2 when attacking Rotterdam.
(12) In the aftermath of this impulse, the German decision to take a combine and successfully take Rotterdam via amphibious invasion has paid off because the II FJR corps is still in and ready to jump into Belgium if (when) needed. This was definitely a good impulse for the Germans. Now, the question is can the three KM heavy cruisers in the North Sea survive and escape the wrath of the RN that’s sure to respond in force?

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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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Turn 4. Mar/Apr 1940. Summary.
This was a turn of blitzkrieg. Another turn where both I had a blast playing a game (i.e., MWiF) and felt history come alive. Again, not alive on the micro but on the macro level. What happened? Well let me tell you.

The Germans blitzed through Holland, Belgium, into France and are threatening to encircle two corps of the BEF, who at the end of the turn were out of supply but still organized. Both sides will aggressively ply for the initiative next turn so they can move first, which will make the difference between France falling or surviving another turn. And, whether or not the BEF can be saved. The German army quickly crushed Holland and then smashed into Belgium capturing the vital port of Antwerp and the fort Eben-Emael in Liege. The BEF and French army move east across the Belgium border in force and establish not only a formable front line but a defense in depth spanning the Swiss border to the North Sea. Then the German army simultaneously crushed the remnants of the Belgium, taking their capital, and breeched the Maginot line at Strasbourg. The attack on Strasbourg wasn’t without loss, Germany lost 2 garrisons and all surviving attackers were disorganized. Then Rundstedt and an ATR squadron were used to reorganized five of the attackers. This breech and reorg forced a number of French reserve forces, which who providing the second line of the defense in depth, to move south to shore up the Maginot line defenses.

When storms hit the north temperate, it looked like the turn would end with the allied defenses bent but really still holding strong. However, not only did the turn continue but the storms blew through and the weather cleared. Instead of resting, refitting and waiting for the turn to end, OKH made a bold decision. One that if successful could potentially break the backs of the French army and bag the BEF. On impulse 13, the OKH played 1 of their only 2 O-chits to reorganized von Bock, used for HQ support to the Strasbourg attack, and Rundstedt, used to reorg four of the units disorganized in that attack. Von Bock was order to gather what forces he could and attack the city of Metz, another Maginot fort hex and defended by two French corps. Rundstedt was order to gather all the panzers and launch a blitz attack out of Brussels and Antwerp against the Belgium hex directly east of Lille, which was unexplainably left unoccupied by the allies, and exploit into Lille. Both attacks were far from sure and cost Germany’s at best one of their two (nearly) irreplaceable O-chits. OKH estimated that the chance of Rundstedt’s panzers breaking through at 75% and von Bock’s chance of taking Metz at 65%. This gave an overall mission success of just under 50% (or a coin flip). One caveat, though is that these estimates assumed minimal French defensive ground support through. With 5 strong German fighters on standby against 3 weaker French fighters, this assumption seemed more than reasonable.

In war, luck goes to the brave, or often does. And, in this instance it did. Rundstedt and his panzers broke through to capture Lille and von Bock smashed through another Maginot fort hex to capture Metz. After these attacks, both Rundstedt and von Bock, who both provided HQ support to their respective attacks, were disorganized as well as all of the Luftwaffe, exhausted from all the support given throughout the entire turn, and the French air force. In great need for the allies to pull back and reform their lines against the exhausted Germans, the turn comes to an end allowing the Germans to reorganize all their forces and leaving the allies in a very precarious position if the Germans get the initiative.

While the German army was blitzing across Holland, Belgium and into France, at sea the Kriegsmarine (KM) was operating (almost) at will in the North Sea and the Atlantic. The KM in the North Sea was able to both deliver troops for an amphibious invasion of Rotterdam and provide naval gunfire for an attack on The Hague. Meanwhile in the North Atlantic, while KM raiders failed to find and sink any convoys, the RN who was operating in force was not only unable to deal adequately with the brazen KM raiders but took the brunt of an encounter with them when they managed to find them. To make matters worse the RN let these Atlantic raiders to slip by strong forces in both the Faeores Gap and North Sea to make it back safely to their base in Kiel. An then in the North Sea where strong RN forces were also operating with their French ally, the KM invasion force on the way back to Kiel and when confronted by the RN and French navy was able to isolate the French ships, sink the Battleship Strasbourg and continue on to Kiel unmolested. Ironically, it was only a few days after the French Battleship Strasbourg slipped under the waves of the North Sea from this encounter that von Bock and his forces were breaching the Maginot line and capturing the city of Strasbourg, from whom the sunken battleship was named.

Editor's note: More specifics on the key events of this turn will be provided in subsequent posts. I do realize that my play is deviating from the historical record, but I’m trying to both play MWiF with an eye towards this record and with sound game strategy and tactics. I understand that both points could rightfully be argued to the contrary, and I encourage those whom wish to voice such arguments to do so, but after all MWiF if a game and one that I’m really enjoining right now.

A second, and most vital, point I wish to make is that I’m not “tanking it”, or “taking a dive” for either side and won’t. In playing the last impulse where Germany captured both Lille and Metz, I went through two different “wargaming” sessions to decided if I wanted to make this move and what my best strategy was. The German move just reinforces advice I got from Johnny (jjdenver), who is one of the elite (M)WiF players, and that is to look at your move from the other side. In effect, check for weakness as if your were the opponent looking for weakness in your intended move. If I ever get back to competitive play, one technique I might try is to wargame both my move and my opponents move (i.e., Blue Team and Red Team my intended move).


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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

Post by Courtenay »

I do not understand the newspaper on the right. It is datelined Tuesday, May 14, 1940, but the article says that "Churchill... took office last night." This would make perfect sense if it were published on May 11, but not May 14. Was the Daily Mail in a time warp?
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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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ORIGINAL: Courtenay

I do not understand the newspaper on the right. It is datelined Tuesday, May 14, 1940, but the article says that "Churchill... took office last night." This would make perfect sense if it were published on May 11, but not May 14. Was the Daily Mail in a time warp?
Maybe the article was written on the 10th but not published in the paper until the 14th?
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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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Turn 4. Mar/Apr 1940. Allied #2. RN Moves.

From: Sir Winston Churchill, First Lord of the Admiralty.
To: All Fleet Commanders.
Re: New Fleet Directives, to be implement immediately and takes precedent over any prior "conflicting" directives.

(1) General convoy escort directive. For sea area subject to surprise attack by Italy, apply 2 ASW per 2 CP's, rounded down and up to 6 max, to the total CW & French CP's in sea area. Any mix of RN/French CL's that achieve this is ok.
(2) Med. Due to threat of Italian surface ships, ok to include capital ships in escorts for CP's. Reminder, no RN or French naval units allowed in any sea box above 0 for any sea area reachable by an Italian unit except for sea areas containing German units.
(3) As long as Italy is neutral no CW or French transports allowed to be at sea in Med, regardless of escorts. Passing through the Med is ok as long as the transport ends its move in port (Med port ok) or is a sea area not in the Med.

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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

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Turn 2. Mar/Apr 1940. Allied #2. Naval Reorg.

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