An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. Allied Convoy, Transport Escort and Task Force Rules of Operation.
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. Allied Sea Reorg.
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. Allied Production.
Working like a clock ... just need to get German u-boats or surface raiders from messing it up. Well, also Japan closing of the Burma Road resulted in the Philippine RP going idle.
Working like a clock ... just need to get German u-boats or surface raiders from messing it up. Well, also Japan closing of the Burma Road resulted in the Philippine RP going idle.
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
What a great idea! I am really enjoying this thread.
For what it's worth, in my solitaire games, I tend to mimic history too. My China front is usually static. Germany attacks Poland in 1939 and France in 1940, and the CW doesn't intervene in Denmark, say. The Axis invades the Balkans before a summer '41 Barbarossa. Japan starts establishing the East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere at the end of 1941/start of 1942.
I do skip the invasion of Norway. My newbish WIF skills aren't up to it yet. Also, my North Africa campaigns are boring and static. I need to inject some Rommel into the proceedings.
But I certainly don't take it to the admirable lengths you have here. Well done! Keep the posts coming.
For what it's worth, in my solitaire games, I tend to mimic history too. My China front is usually static. Germany attacks Poland in 1939 and France in 1940, and the CW doesn't intervene in Denmark, say. The Axis invades the Balkans before a summer '41 Barbarossa. Japan starts establishing the East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere at the end of 1941/start of 1942.
I do skip the invasion of Norway. My newbish WIF skills aren't up to it yet. Also, my North Africa campaigns are boring and static. I need to inject some Rommel into the proceedings.
But I certainly don't take it to the admirable lengths you have here. Well done! Keep the posts coming.
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. German U-boats and Surface Raiders.
Remain at sea in the Faeroes Gap practically taunting the Royal Navy. There is a practical side though. Move surface raiders (6 movers) now can get to the 1-box of the North Atlantic or Bay of Biscay because "in the presence" doesn't apply to the Faeroes Gap as long as Germany has surface raiders there. And, if the Germans manage to flyout and keep a NAV operating in the North Sea during anything but storms or blizzard then 6-mover surface raiders from Kiel can make the 2-box of the North Atlantic or Bay of Biscay. All of this assumes, which is a big assume, that the sorting surface raiders avoid intercept the RN and French navies.
Remain at sea in the Faeroes Gap practically taunting the Royal Navy. There is a practical side though. Move surface raiders (6 movers) now can get to the 1-box of the North Atlantic or Bay of Biscay because "in the presence" doesn't apply to the Faeroes Gap as long as Germany has surface raiders there. And, if the Germans manage to flyout and keep a NAV operating in the North Sea during anything but storms or blizzard then 6-mover surface raiders from Kiel can make the 2-box of the North Atlantic or Bay of Biscay. All of this assumes, which is a big assume, that the sorting surface raiders avoid intercept the RN and French navies.
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. RN and French North Sea Blockade.
Here is what the RN and French navies left at sea this turn in hopes of intercepting and sinking any more KM surface raiders.
Here is what the RN and French navies left at sea this turn in hopes of intercepting and sinking any more KM surface raiders.
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. Germany.
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. Southern France.
Georges is slowing moving out of this area. Hopefully he'll make it back up north where he needs to be next turn.
Georges is slowing moving out of this area. Hopefully he'll make it back up north where he needs to be next turn.
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. North & Central China.
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. Central & South China.
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. USSR & Finland.
Something's a brewing up north in the Arctic ...
Something's a brewing up north in the Arctic ...
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. Destroyed & Repair Pools.
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. US Entry Options.
A very good turn for US entry options ...
A very good turn for US entry options ...
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. Economic Report.
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Thanks! [:)]ORIGINAL: Grotius
What a great idea! I am really enjoying this thread.
For what it's worth, in my solitaire games, I tend to mimic history too. My China front is usually static. Germany attacks Poland in 1939 and France in 1940, and the CW doesn't intervene in Denmark, say. The Axis invades the Balkans before a summer '41 Barbarossa. Japan starts establishing the East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere at the end of 1941/start of 1942.
I do skip the invasion of Norway. My newbish WIF skills aren't up to it yet. Also, my North Africa campaigns are boring and static. I need to inject some Rommel into the proceedings.
But I certainly don't take it to the admirable lengths you have here. Well done! Keep the posts coming.
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
warspite1ORIGINAL: rkr1958
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. Recap.
1. New Trade Deal. The CW sends 4 non-oil to France. Specifically, 2 RP's from India and 2 RP's from Malaya are sent. This trade deal results in 2 idle CW factories, 4 idle CP's in CSV and 1 idle CP in BoB. All this will be fixed, assuming no interference from German u-boats, during the turn.
2. New Trade Deal. The US sends the Philippine RP to China. The question is will Japan close the Burma Road and risk a chit?
3. Initiative. The axis win and elect to move second.
4. Allies fix their convoy routes and get things running smoothly (see next post).
5. Japan does indeed close the Burma Road and this results in a chit being added to the US entry pool.
6. Germany sends 2 u-boats to the Faeoes Gap but fail to find the CW convoy.
7. Japanese bombers continue their dismal performance in China. However, the IJA is able to kill off a Natcom garrison in the mountains in the north.
8. Germany sends out two surface raiders that slip past the RN and French naval blockade in the North Sea. The raiders link up with the German u-boats operating there but are still unable to find the CW convoy.
9. Both raiders and 1 u-boat moved down to the 2-box and remain in the area at the end of turn.
10. Though neutral the USA is busy at the end of turn. They select three options: (13) "Embargo on strategic materials", (15) "Resources to western allies", and (16) "gift of destroyers to the CW.". All of this only results in 1 chit (from the German/Italy entry pool) being moved to the tension pool.
11. Forgot to add, RAF and French bombers manage to knock 2 PP's off of German Production. "Bomber" Harris is ecstatic. On the flip side, a German strategic raid on Lyons nets nothing.
Hi rkr1958
To be clear I'm enjoying reading this so any comments are not meant as criticisms - just pointing out anything I think is inaccurate so you may (or may not) choose to amend going forward.
2 BP's at this stage of the war is a big part of the German economy. The British and French simply did not have that capability - even if they wanted to use it. However there wasn't the political will to go bombing Germany in any case. They both had no wish to inflict civilian casualties and French in particular feared reprisals on their own towns and cities. What bombing there was by the British was largely limited to attacking the German navy in port - until December when they received a rude awakening about the practicalities of daylight bombing. The Strategic air offensive did not really begin until May 1940 - and even then, 9 months into the war Bomber Command was woefully inadequate in terms of size and aircraft types. And 'Bomber' Harris was not around in 1939 - it was Charles Portal at the time of the first offensive, and Edgar Ludlow-Hewitt at the start of the war.
Now Maitland, now's your time!
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
No, you can do it with three corps, if one of them is the white print MTN unit. Just block any possible Italian advance, except for the possibility of the Italian MTN unit crawling over the alpine hex, which possibility you ignore. One unit in Nice, one NW of Nice, and the MTN two hexes NE of that hex. The problem with your set up is that the Italians can simply advance, grab three mountain hexes (the Italian MTN would crawl over the alpine hexside), and now the French need at least five units to hold the front, which they really don't have.ORIGINAL: rkr1958
Oh ... well maybe then I need to keep four corps down there and put a unit in Nice. Whould that shore up the defenses enough for you not to invade as Italy?ORIGINAL: Courtenay
Given three corps, including the white print MTN, on the Italian border, I would defend right on the border with Italy. I realize that in the current scenario the Italians won't attack, but if I were playing a normal game and saw that French set up, I would declare war the next impulse as Italy, and get through the mountains, stretching the French line. The French MTN corps is critical; it defends in the northern hex. The Italians can put it out of supply by shoving their own MTN corps over the alpine hexside, but the French MTN really doesn't care too much; even if the Italians flip it, it still defends with a strength of nine. Any other unit the French are willing to spend down there will have a strength of two, and be killed, opening the flood gates. This can happen to the MTN unit, if the Italians get lucky; if they don't get lucky, which is more probable, they have gotten into the war in an unfavorable position.
I thought I knew how to play this game....
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Actually, there was pure paralysis on the part of the French. The RAF was dead certain that they could obliterate Germany. (If they RAF had one plane that could fly, I think they would have been dead certain they could have obliterated Germany. Bomber command had a certain overconfidence in its abilities.) Churchill kept pushing ideas to attack the Germans, but the French did not want to do anything that could antagonize Germany. They seemed to have missed the fact that they were at war with Germany. (See Operation Royal Marine for an example.)ORIGINAL: warspite1
warspite1ORIGINAL: rkr1958
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. Recap.
11. Forgot to add, RAF and French bombers manage to knock 2 PP's off of German Production. "Bomber" Harris is ecstatic. On the flip side, a German strategic raid on Lyons nets nothing.
Hi rkr1958
To be clear I'm enjoying reading this so any comments are not meant as criticisms - just pointing out anything I think is inaccurate so you may (or may not) choose to amend going forward.
2 BP's at this stage of the war is a big part of the German economy. The British and French simply did not have that capability - even if they wanted to use it. However there wasn't the political will to go bombing Germany in any case. They both had no wish to inflict civilian casualties and French in particular feared reprisals on their own towns and cities. What bombing there was by the British was largely limited to attacking the German navy in port - until December when they received a rude awakening about the practicalities of daylight bombing. The Strategic air offensive did not really begin until May 1940 - and even then, 9 months into the war Bomber Command was woefully inadequate in terms of size and aircraft types. And 'Bomber' Harris was not around in 1939 - it was Charles Portal at the time of the first offensive, and Edgar Ludlow-Hewitt at the start of the war.
I thought I knew how to play this game....
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
warspite1ORIGINAL: Courtenay
Actually, there was pure paralysis on the part of the French. The RAF was dead certain that they could obliterate Germany. (If they RAF had one plane that could fly, I think they would have been dead certain they could have obliterated Germany. Bomber command had a certain overconfidence in its abilities.) Churchill kept pushing ideas to attack the Germans, but the French did not want to do anything that could antagonize Germany. They seemed to have missed the fact that they were at war with Germany. (See Operation Royal Marine for an example.)ORIGINAL: warspite1
warspite1ORIGINAL: rkr1958
Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. Recap.
11. Forgot to add, RAF and French bombers manage to knock 2 PP's off of German Production. "Bomber" Harris is ecstatic. On the flip side, a German strategic raid on Lyons nets nothing.
Hi rkr1958
To be clear I'm enjoying reading this so any comments are not meant as criticisms - just pointing out anything I think is inaccurate so you may (or may not) choose to amend going forward.
2 BP's at this stage of the war is a big part of the German economy. The British and French simply did not have that capability - even if they wanted to use it. However there wasn't the political will to go bombing Germany in any case. They both had no wish to inflict civilian casualties and French in particular feared reprisals on their own towns and cities. What bombing there was by the British was largely limited to attacking the German navy in port - until December when they received a rude awakening about the practicalities of daylight bombing. The Strategic air offensive did not really begin until May 1940 - and even then, 9 months into the war Bomber Command was woefully inadequate in terms of size and aircraft types. And 'Bomber' Harris was not around in 1939 - it was Charles Portal at the time of the first offensive, and Edgar Ludlow-Hewitt at the start of the war.
Over confidence in the capability of the bomber was not a malaise that affected the British alone - there was a general acceptance that the bomber would always get through before the war - and it took actual fighting to realise that was not true - and in the British case, the daylight raids over German naval bases in December 1939.
The French wanted to keep the war away from French soil - attacking German towns and cities would invite reprisals, but regardless both the British and the French were all too aware of US public opinion and so did not want to 'obliterate' Germany.
Now Maitland, now's your time!
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
ORIGINAL: warspite1
Sorry if I've missed it, but are you going to choose the historical entries as close to real life - or allow flexibility?
Excellent points and ones which forced me to do a bit of thinking this afternoon, after I did my taxes which I've been putting off for a week or more doing something much more enjoyable (such as this historical AAR).ORIGINAL: warspite1
Hi rkr1958
To be clear I'm enjoying reading this so any comments are not meant as criticisms - just pointing out anything I think is inaccurate so you may (or may not) choose to amend going forward.
2 BP's at this stage of the war is a big part of the German economy. The British and French simply did not have that capability - even if they wanted to use it. However there wasn't the political will to go bombing Germany in any case. They both had no wish to inflict civilian casualties and French in particular feared reprisals on their own towns and cities. What bombing there was by the British was largely limited to attacking the German navy in port - until December when they received a rude awakening about the practicalities of daylight bombing. The Strategic air offensive did not really begin until May 1940 - and even then, 9 months into the war Bomber Command was woefully inadequate in terms of size and aircraft types. And 'Bomber' Harris was not around in 1939 - it was Charles Portal at the time of the first offensive, and Edgar Ludlow-Hewitt at the start of the war.
Your recent posts have, in my mind, brought up the question of what exactly is my guiding framework, or set of guidelines, to (attempt) to achieve historical accuracy and feel by playing this AAR out within MWiF. I do realize, after all, that MWiF is a game and not a ww2 simulation. Then, there's the whole can of worms of exactly what is aww2 simulation. Is it meant to play out like a DVD series, for example my favorite on the subject, "The World at War"? Or, is something that would produce a result that the majority of historians knowledge of this period would agree is an historically reasonable alternate result? If I wanted the former then I would re-watch, for the 7th time, "The World at War instead of resorting to an enormousness amount of inflexible, burdensome and artificial scripting to achieve said result. So that leaves me with the second definition which is to produce an historically reasonable, most likely alternate result. But hopefully not an alternate result that’s two far off from the actual result. By the way, I also do want to play the game, play each side honestly and to the best of my abilities.
Thanks again warspite, and everyone of you, for your questions, inputs and suggestions. I really do value them and hope you keep them coming. Below if my first draft of my guiding "political document" for playing out this AAR. I saw first draft because, with all your help, I will plan to revise and improve this document, as necessary, based on your help. Please comment/critique freely.
It feels good to have my taxes done. I'm now going to go for a 3-mile walk. [8D]
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Ronnie