Bombers changed target

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition

jwolf
Posts: 2493
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:02 pm

Bombers changed target

Post by jwolf »

Rats, I've seen this before, but I'm never alert enough to catch it before it's too late. For weeks I have been waging a massive campaign against a trapped enemy army in Bangkok, and finally began crushing it with most of the enemy units wiped out. That's when I ran into trouble. My bombers were ordered to attack ground units at Bangkok, and there were still some enemy units there -- but the game doesn't code a generic ground attack, it codes an attack against a specific enemy unit. That target was gone, so my crews searched for a new target ... hey, look, there's Saigon, with 600 enemy fighters! Yeah, let's do it!

I lost 33 Liberators outright, many more damaged. [:@][:@] They did manage to shoot down a handful of enemy planes, but this was an awful disaster for my air squadrons. It will take about 3 weeks to recover, I think.
User avatar
geofflambert
Posts: 14887
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:18 pm
Location: St. Louis

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by geofflambert »

You have absolute regulation of the range of their attacks. That's on you. I'm not aware of the ability to target specific LCUs in ground attack, never heard of it. Most likely the weather prevented an attack on the primary target you assigned, so your commander selected a secondary target that you allowed him to choose. You control the range they're allowed to use for attack and you can choose "rest" as your secondary. Do so and don't whine.

User avatar
geofflambert
Posts: 14887
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:18 pm
Location: St. Louis

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by geofflambert »

I apologize for addressing you as a seeming novice, you are a veteran. I just don't understand the substance of your complaint, if we can call it that.

User avatar
geofflambert
Posts: 14887
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:18 pm
Location: St. Louis

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by geofflambert »

An addendum, if you are not sweeping potential bombing targets available to your bomber squadrons, it might be rational to expect bad results. Establish air superiority within the range you allow to your bomber squadrons. You didn't mention how many B-24s were lost air to air vs by flak, but that would really be interesting to most of us. What beast of a fighter could shoot down that many B-effing 24s in one day?

jwolf
Posts: 2493
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:02 pm

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by jwolf »

Well, I'm not exactly a veteran, or a poor one at that. But I see your point that setting the range, or at least checking it, would greatly minimize the risk of this kind of switch. Point taken. The effect I am trying to describe is having several air units attack enemy ground units at a certain place over a period of time. Each air unit is assigned -- somehow, under the hood -- a specific enemy unit as its primary target, although it may also target others. You can see this in the combat report. So let's say some air units have been hitting enemy unit A, some B, some C, and some D. After a while, with ground combat, let's say A and B have been eliminated, but C and D remain. If I am not alert enough, which is just about always, the air units targeting C and D will keep hitting them, but the ones that had been targeting A and B will seek new targets from any enemy hex within range, based on whatever algorithm the code uses, even though their orders were not changed by me.
jwolf
Posts: 2493
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:02 pm

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by jwolf »

Crossed posts. I didn't watch the air combat much once I saw what was happening, it was clear I was toast. From the intel screen after the turn most of the losses were A2A, I think about 2-1. Enemy fighters were a mix of Frank, Tony, and some older models. This is in May 44 against the AI.
User avatar
geofflambert
Posts: 14887
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:18 pm
Location: St. Louis

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by geofflambert »

Frank is telling. As far as I am aware, and as well as far as I believe, LCUs are not targeted by squadrons nor can they be. For the purposes of determining results, LCUs are assigned to receive the damage in a particular attack, but there is no continuity to that, like the squadron always attacking that LCU until ordered otherwise. Perhaps I am mistaken.

User avatar
geofflambert
Posts: 14887
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:18 pm
Location: St. Louis

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by geofflambert »

Again, weather has the power to countermand almost any order. Petition Zeus.

User avatar
geofflambert
Posts: 14887
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:18 pm
Location: St. Louis

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by geofflambert »

Just to be clear, as far as I know there is no difference between an air or sea bombardment and a surface sea battle in this respect: The units targeted and perhaps struck are chosen by the AI after all orders are given and the action commenced. The player does not choose which ship shoots at which ship, nor can he ban a ship from shooting at a particular ship. I believe this is the same as for air units bombing ground targets. If there happen to be LCUs in the enemy controlled target hex, they might or might not receive the damage from that attack. Similarly, if there is a port or airfield in that enemy controlled hex, that might or might not receive damage in a "ground attack". An airfield attack is, after all, a ground attack and those skills for the air crews apply. The same for a port attack. So it seems to go for naval bombardments. A naval bombardment is like a box of chocolates, you don't know what you're going to get until you open it.

User avatar
geofflambert
Posts: 14887
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:18 pm
Location: St. Louis

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by geofflambert »

I might add, each and every time I open any box of chocolates, I am uniformly disappointed.

User avatar
BBfanboy
Posts: 19688
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:36 pm
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Contact:

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Frank is telling. As far as I am aware, and as well as far as I believe, LCUs are not targeted by squadrons nor can they be. For the purposes of determining results, LCUs are assigned to receive the damage in a particular attack, but there is no continuity to that, like the squadron always attacking that LCU until ordered otherwise. Perhaps I am mistaken.
I have seen what jwolf is describing. If the enemy units are moving, the aircraft that were attacking them will follow to the next hex they enter if only some units move to the next hex, some of the bombers will go there and some will continue to bomb the original hex.

And, as stated, if some of the units are eliminated, the bombers that last attacked them will not have a target hex showing on their orders and will be available for "Commander's Choice" missions.

Most often they just sit at their air base but if you are using extremely aggressive commanders, they will look for something to attack and go for it.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
User avatar
witpqs
Posts: 26376
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:48 pm
Location: Argleton

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by witpqs »

When targeted units get destroyed the group will pick a new target. When targeted units move the group will target the same unit until it moves out of range, then will pick a new target.
Dili
Posts: 4713
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:33 pm

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by Dili »

Yes the only way to prevent this is limit the air unit range.
User avatar
BBfanboy
Posts: 19688
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:36 pm
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Contact:

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Dili

Yes the only way to prevent this is limit the air unit range.
... or check your air units every turn and if they do not have a designated target, stand them down or give them one of your choosing.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
User avatar
rustysi
Posts: 7472
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:23 am
Location: LI, NY

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by rustysi »

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Rats, I've seen this before, but I'm never alert enough to catch it before it's too late. For weeks I have been waging a massive campaign against a trapped enemy army in Bangkok, and finally began crushing it with most of the enemy units wiped out. That's when I ran into trouble. My bombers were ordered to attack ground units at Bangkok, and there were still some enemy units there -- but the game doesn't code a generic ground attack, it codes an attack against a specific enemy unit. That target was gone, so my crews searched for a new target ... hey, look, there's Saigon, with 600 enemy fighters! Yeah, let's do it!

I lost 33 Liberators outright, many more damaged. [:@][:@] They did manage to shoot down a handful of enemy planes, but this was an awful disaster for my air squadrons. It will take about 3 weeks to recover, I think.

Set target range, set target range, set target range. 'Nuff said, other than oops.[:)]

Its not totally foolproof, but helps. You may go to another target in range, but not all the way to Saigon.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
User avatar
HansBolter
Posts: 7191
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 pm
Location: United States

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: rustysi

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Rats, I've seen this before, but I'm never alert enough to catch it before it's too late. For weeks I have been waging a massive campaign against a trapped enemy army in Bangkok, and finally began crushing it with most of the enemy units wiped out. That's when I ran into trouble. My bombers were ordered to attack ground units at Bangkok, and there were still some enemy units there -- but the game doesn't code a generic ground attack, it codes an attack against a specific enemy unit. That target was gone, so my crews searched for a new target ... hey, look, there's Saigon, with 600 enemy fighters! Yeah, let's do it!

I lost 33 Liberators outright, many more damaged. [:@][:@] They did manage to shoot down a handful of enemy planes, but this was an awful disaster for my air squadrons. It will take about 3 weeks to recover, I think.

Set target range, set target range, set target range. 'Nuff said, other than oops.[:)]

Its not totally foolproof, but helps. You may go to another target in range, but not all the way to Saigon.


Good advice. Better to actually keep track of what your bombers are doing each turn and pay attention to when the LCUs they are bombing get destroyed.
Commander Discretion on targeting is fraught with danger.
Hans

User avatar
Lowpe
Posts: 24063
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:25 pm

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: witpqs

When targeted units get destroyed the group will pick a new target. When targeted units move the group will target the same unit until it moves out of range, then will pick a new target.

I have gamed this several times, putting up LRCAP over the new hex in the hopes some bombers stray over.[:)]
User avatar
rustysi
Posts: 7472
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:23 am
Location: LI, NY

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by rustysi »

I have gamed this several times, putting up LRCAP over the new hex in the hopes some bombers stray over.

Tisk, tisk, tisk. I cry foul. Gaming the game.[;)] [:D]
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
User avatar
rustysi
Posts: 7472
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:23 am
Location: LI, NY

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by rustysi »

Commander Discretion on targeting is fraught with danger.

Yeah, learned that the hard way!!!![:D]
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
jwolf
Posts: 2493
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:02 pm

RE: Bombers changed target

Post by jwolf »

Thanks to all for the comments, especially describing the situation more clearly and concisely than I did. The line "commander discretion is fraught with danger" is very definitely true! That, along with my failure to check the range -- sometimes I do, sometimes not, got sloppy this time and really paid for it with an ugly turn. Live and learn.

Lastly, I am impressed, as always, with Lowpe's tactical savvy. [;)] Thanks again to everyone.
Post Reply

Return to “War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition”