Bombers changed target
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Bombers changed target
Rats, I've seen this before, but I'm never alert enough to catch it before it's too late. For weeks I have been waging a massive campaign against a trapped enemy army in Bangkok, and finally began crushing it with most of the enemy units wiped out. That's when I ran into trouble. My bombers were ordered to attack ground units at Bangkok, and there were still some enemy units there -- but the game doesn't code a generic ground attack, it codes an attack against a specific enemy unit. That target was gone, so my crews searched for a new target ... hey, look, there's Saigon, with 600 enemy fighters! Yeah, let's do it!
I lost 33 Liberators outright, many more damaged. [:@][:@] They did manage to shoot down a handful of enemy planes, but this was an awful disaster for my air squadrons. It will take about 3 weeks to recover, I think.
I lost 33 Liberators outright, many more damaged. [:@][:@] They did manage to shoot down a handful of enemy planes, but this was an awful disaster for my air squadrons. It will take about 3 weeks to recover, I think.
- geofflambert
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RE: Bombers changed target
You have absolute regulation of the range of their attacks. That's on you. I'm not aware of the ability to target specific LCUs in ground attack, never heard of it. Most likely the weather prevented an attack on the primary target you assigned, so your commander selected a secondary target that you allowed him to choose. You control the range they're allowed to use for attack and you can choose "rest" as your secondary. Do so and don't whine.
- geofflambert
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RE: Bombers changed target
I apologize for addressing you as a seeming novice, you are a veteran. I just don't understand the substance of your complaint, if we can call it that.
- geofflambert
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RE: Bombers changed target
An addendum, if you are not sweeping potential bombing targets available to your bomber squadrons, it might be rational to expect bad results. Establish air superiority within the range you allow to your bomber squadrons. You didn't mention how many B-24s were lost air to air vs by flak, but that would really be interesting to most of us. What beast of a fighter could shoot down that many B-effing 24s in one day?
RE: Bombers changed target
Well, I'm not exactly a veteran, or a poor one at that. But I see your point that setting the range, or at least checking it, would greatly minimize the risk of this kind of switch. Point taken. The effect I am trying to describe is having several air units attack enemy ground units at a certain place over a period of time. Each air unit is assigned -- somehow, under the hood -- a specific enemy unit as its primary target, although it may also target others. You can see this in the combat report. So let's say some air units have been hitting enemy unit A, some B, some C, and some D. After a while, with ground combat, let's say A and B have been eliminated, but C and D remain. If I am not alert enough, which is just about always, the air units targeting C and D will keep hitting them, but the ones that had been targeting A and B will seek new targets from any enemy hex within range, based on whatever algorithm the code uses, even though their orders were not changed by me.
RE: Bombers changed target
Crossed posts. I didn't watch the air combat much once I saw what was happening, it was clear I was toast. From the intel screen after the turn most of the losses were A2A, I think about 2-1. Enemy fighters were a mix of Frank, Tony, and some older models. This is in May 44 against the AI.
- geofflambert
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RE: Bombers changed target
Frank is telling. As far as I am aware, and as well as far as I believe, LCUs are not targeted by squadrons nor can they be. For the purposes of determining results, LCUs are assigned to receive the damage in a particular attack, but there is no continuity to that, like the squadron always attacking that LCU until ordered otherwise. Perhaps I am mistaken.
- geofflambert
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RE: Bombers changed target
Again, weather has the power to countermand almost any order. Petition Zeus.
- geofflambert
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RE: Bombers changed target
Just to be clear, as far as I know there is no difference between an air or sea bombardment and a surface sea battle in this respect: The units targeted and perhaps struck are chosen by the AI after all orders are given and the action commenced. The player does not choose which ship shoots at which ship, nor can he ban a ship from shooting at a particular ship. I believe this is the same as for air units bombing ground targets. If there happen to be LCUs in the enemy controlled target hex, they might or might not receive the damage from that attack. Similarly, if there is a port or airfield in that enemy controlled hex, that might or might not receive damage in a "ground attack". An airfield attack is, after all, a ground attack and those skills for the air crews apply. The same for a port attack. So it seems to go for naval bombardments. A naval bombardment is like a box of chocolates, you don't know what you're going to get until you open it.
- geofflambert
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RE: Bombers changed target
I might add, each and every time I open any box of chocolates, I am uniformly disappointed.
RE: Bombers changed target
I have seen what jwolf is describing. If the enemy units are moving, the aircraft that were attacking them will follow to the next hex they enter if only some units move to the next hex, some of the bombers will go there and some will continue to bomb the original hex.ORIGINAL: geofflambert
Frank is telling. As far as I am aware, and as well as far as I believe, LCUs are not targeted by squadrons nor can they be. For the purposes of determining results, LCUs are assigned to receive the damage in a particular attack, but there is no continuity to that, like the squadron always attacking that LCU until ordered otherwise. Perhaps I am mistaken.
And, as stated, if some of the units are eliminated, the bombers that last attacked them will not have a target hex showing on their orders and will be available for "Commander's Choice" missions.
Most often they just sit at their air base but if you are using extremely aggressive commanders, they will look for something to attack and go for it.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
RE: Bombers changed target
When targeted units get destroyed the group will pick a new target. When targeted units move the group will target the same unit until it moves out of range, then will pick a new target.
Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home
RE: Bombers changed target
Yes the only way to prevent this is limit the air unit range.
RE: Bombers changed target
... or check your air units every turn and if they do not have a designated target, stand them down or give them one of your choosing.ORIGINAL: Dili
Yes the only way to prevent this is limit the air unit range.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
RE: Bombers changed target
ORIGINAL: jwolf
Rats, I've seen this before, but I'm never alert enough to catch it before it's too late. For weeks I have been waging a massive campaign against a trapped enemy army in Bangkok, and finally began crushing it with most of the enemy units wiped out. That's when I ran into trouble. My bombers were ordered to attack ground units at Bangkok, and there were still some enemy units there -- but the game doesn't code a generic ground attack, it codes an attack against a specific enemy unit. That target was gone, so my crews searched for a new target ... hey, look, there's Saigon, with 600 enemy fighters! Yeah, let's do it!
I lost 33 Liberators outright, many more damaged. [:@][:@] They did manage to shoot down a handful of enemy planes, but this was an awful disaster for my air squadrons. It will take about 3 weeks to recover, I think.
Set target range, set target range, set target range. 'Nuff said, other than oops.[:)]
Its not totally foolproof, but helps. You may go to another target in range, but not all the way to Saigon.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
- HansBolter
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RE: Bombers changed target
ORIGINAL: rustysi
ORIGINAL: jwolf
Rats, I've seen this before, but I'm never alert enough to catch it before it's too late. For weeks I have been waging a massive campaign against a trapped enemy army in Bangkok, and finally began crushing it with most of the enemy units wiped out. That's when I ran into trouble. My bombers were ordered to attack ground units at Bangkok, and there were still some enemy units there -- but the game doesn't code a generic ground attack, it codes an attack against a specific enemy unit. That target was gone, so my crews searched for a new target ... hey, look, there's Saigon, with 600 enemy fighters! Yeah, let's do it!
I lost 33 Liberators outright, many more damaged. [:@][:@] They did manage to shoot down a handful of enemy planes, but this was an awful disaster for my air squadrons. It will take about 3 weeks to recover, I think.
Set target range, set target range, set target range. 'Nuff said, other than oops.[:)]
Its not totally foolproof, but helps. You may go to another target in range, but not all the way to Saigon.
Good advice. Better to actually keep track of what your bombers are doing each turn and pay attention to when the LCUs they are bombing get destroyed.
Commander Discretion on targeting is fraught with danger.
Hans
RE: Bombers changed target
ORIGINAL: witpqs
When targeted units get destroyed the group will pick a new target. When targeted units move the group will target the same unit until it moves out of range, then will pick a new target.
I have gamed this several times, putting up LRCAP over the new hex in the hopes some bombers stray over.[:)]
RE: Bombers changed target
I have gamed this several times, putting up LRCAP over the new hex in the hopes some bombers stray over.
Tisk, tisk, tisk. I cry foul. Gaming the game.[;)] [:D]
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Bombers changed target
Commander Discretion on targeting is fraught with danger.
Yeah, learned that the hard way!!!![:D]
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Bombers changed target
Thanks to all for the comments, especially describing the situation more clearly and concisely than I did. The line "commander discretion is fraught with danger" is very definitely true! That, along with my failure to check the range -- sometimes I do, sometimes not, got sloppy this time and really paid for it with an ugly turn. Live and learn.
Lastly, I am impressed, as always, with Lowpe's tactical savvy. [;)] Thanks again to everyone.
Lastly, I am impressed, as always, with Lowpe's tactical savvy. [;)] Thanks again to everyone.