Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

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dwbradley
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Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by dwbradley »

Anomander Rake (AKA Pawel or anglicized to Paul) and I have agreed to start a game using Large Slow Target's Bottlenecks mod. I got excited reading through the documentation for Bottlenecks. To say that it is ambitious is an understatement but it is also clear that this is a creation that Large Slow Target has poured lots and lots of time and effort and passion into.

So, the first thing I want to say about Bottlenecks is to offer a big apology to Large Slow Target. Paul and I not only got excited about Bottlenecks we decided we could take some of Large Slow Targets ideas and improve them (details below). Now, normally, taking a brand new mod and changing things just because you can is somewhat insulting to the author and a possible recipe for WITP-AE disaster. So, I am hoping Large Slow Target will forgive us our transgressions and look over our shoulders via this AAR. As we have gotten ready to start this game Large Slow Target has been very supportive and helpful, answering all of our questions with patience and good humor. It is possible that we will find issues as we get further into the game. I suspect that the fun we may have in playing the mod will be due to Large Slow Target's efforts and any problems may well be due to our “improvements”. My hope is that with his advice, we can work our way though any difficulties encountered.

Now, about my name for this AAR. I really was at a loss for any clever name. For those who don't know, “Longneck” is a colloquial term for the classic glass beer bottle. And I expect to need quite a few of those to get through this game. It also occurred to me that Paul and I have stuck our necks out quite a bit. The Laws of Unintended Consequences are undoubtedly at work and we may find our long necks on the chopping block.

I am not going to start any strategic/tactical discussions until I give Paul a chance to pop in here and comment, if he wishes. He has told me he is not comfortable enough with his English to do an AAR. I think his English is more than good enough but that is his call. So, comment away Paul until I give you a heads-up via email.




OK, so what the heck have we messed with? Before I answer that I should note that the philosophy that underpins his work closely aligns with what we (Paul and I) were looking for. I describe that philosophy as “more realism with more fun”. There are many experimental elements to Bottlenecks but with a rational basis for all of them, or so it seems to us.

The first thing we changed was an expansion of the constructable RR/Roads mechanism. A refresher on this innovation by Large Slow Target: He has placed dot bases in inland hexes with 0 level ports. Use engineers (and supply) to build the port to some designated level and you are credited with having built the RR/Road in that hex. Large Slow Target's mod has the RR/Roads already in the pwhexe.dat and the players must abide by a House Rule to not use that RR/Road until it is completed. It occurred to me that since I had the capability of modifying the pwhexe.dat at will (a good while back I wrote an editor for it), we could modify the pwhexe.dat to add the construction as it is built (or not, if the player chooses not to invest the engineering and supply for any project. OK, so that would be fine for this game (Paul and I) but most players would not be inclined to edit the pwhexe.dat. So then I had the “brilliant” idea of, “Why not write a custom utility that will make it easy for players to update the pwhexe.dat without having to dive into a full editor experience”. As we go along in the game I will be working in parallel to generate this utility. And we shall see just how “brilliant” my idea really is.

We also added some more RR/Road constructables to the list of possible projects. Large Slow Target thought some of our choices were not entirely realistic, and I freely admit he has a point. Paul and I like the choices so that is what we will go with. I will give a detailed list of the “constructable” projects in a later post.

The other thing we did was modify some of the economic parameters. I know what you are thinking at this point, “Large Slow Target has researched, tested, and iterated to get the economies to a certain point where he is happy enough to release his mod, and you want to fiddle with it before you have even played one game? Are you mad?” Probably. I will describe these changes in some more detail in a later post (this one is getting too long as it is)

So, with this AAR (my first, by the way) I will attempt to do two things:
One, provide Large Slow Target with feedback to improve his work. I am hoping he will monitor and comment on the thread. And this should be a good place for him to ask questions where he would like to see more details.
Two, provide some amusement for the AAR watchers. I have read and enjoyed a lot of the AARs over the years and it is high time I pay back what I owe by doing one myself. I am by nature a lazy person so it remains to be seen how much effort I can put into an AAR before my laziness genes kick in. So, I will aim for a moderate level of detail and explanations, with maybe summaries to bridge periods of mundane activity. The best way to get more detail from me will be to ask questions, which I freely invite.

Dave Bradley
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by dwbradley »

Game Config and House Rules:

Fog of War ON
Advanced Weather Effects ON
Allied Damage Control ON
PDU OFF
December 7th Surprise ON
Historical Start OFF
Reliable US Torpedoes OFF
Realistic R&D ON
No Unit Withdrawals OFF
Reinforcement FIXED
Turn Cycle: 1-day turns for the first two turns, then 2-day turns thereafter

HOUSE RULES:
1. Dec 7th Afternoon start: historic damage done at PH, PI and
Wake - thus PH strike force + Formosa air groups + Roi-Namur
bombers must remain on stand-down on turn one
2. No fuel transportation in xAK/AK/AKA types, unless expressly provided for in the design.
3. Allies: no infantry unit transportation in xAK/xAKL unless for emergency evacuations
4. Naval attacks by US Army 4Es below 6000 feet restricted to x squadrons / planes, no restriction
on USN 4E bombers
5. Night air attacks limited to 120 engines/day until 1945.
6. No industry bombing of Chinese bases (manpower bombing ok). Applies to both sides. Rule is waived if Allied strategic bombing of Japan from China is used.
7. No strategic air attacks before mid-1943.
8. Hospital ships and associated Hospital LCUs must stay co-located, that is, in the same hex. So ship can only move after loading the LCU.
9. No stockpiling for useless (supply eater) devices.
10. Limits for restricted units: I think this is a sort of “do the right thing” rule. Even though you can move restricted units over national (land) borders, you should pay PP to transfer them to the appropriate command. And yes, it can get complicated, so just “do the right thing”.
11. Resizing of air groups (other than the programmed auto-resizing built into the scenario). Carrier air groups and carrier-capable groups when moved to a carrier may be re-sized to fit the ship. Also, small groups may be increased to a limit of 12 aircraft.

Dave Bradley
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by dwbradley »

So, a little more detail about the main changes that make this Bottlenecks scenario “Longnecks”.

Constructable RR/Roads.
The list of construction projects is now:
1. Burma-Siam RR (Burma Death RR)
2. Ledo Road
3. Sumatra Death Railway
4. Changsha-Nanchang
5. Canton-Kukong
6. Nanchang-Chusien
7. Shangrao-Nanking
8. Kunming-Hanoi Gap
9. Changsha-Wushan Gap
10. Hanoi-Nannning RR
11. Chenchow-86,42*
12. Chenchow-Haifeng Bridge*
13. ALCAN Highway*

Projects with a following *, above, are not part of Large Slow Targets set of projects. Large Slow Target's project are characterized on the map by dashed lines where solid lines normally appear.

Large Slow Targets has indicated that projects may be built by raising the port level to 1 for each and every hex in the project. After some discussion, Paul and I are going to let this evolve as we get into the game. So, for an initial rule, each time one of the projects hexes increases its port size by one level we will consult and decide if it merits completion of that increment of the project. Why make it variable? I am not sure we will but it may be necessary for some very difficult projects. Not all hexes and projects are equal. Some hexes in open terrain, with good weather, might be build up much more easily than others. Consider the Ledo Road. The portion from Ledo to Mytkyina was started in early '42 and did not reach Mytkyina until mid-44. Not many miles per day. And the aforementioned added projects are clearly special cases. The two bridges represent serious investments of engineering days and supply so multiple increases of port levels are clearly needed. How many? Don't know yet. If one of us starts either of these projects we will have to figure out how to calibrate this as we go. The ALCAN is another special case. Large Slow Target had already used up all of the spare slots for dot base ports and another 22 (approx.) were needed for this project. So Paul stole (err re-apportioned) them from here and there. We still have some open hexes with no dot base. So, in some cases a single dot base port will represent 2 or 3 adjacent hexes, and all three will get built up when the port level is raised for the single hex. Below is a link for the redone art for the panel that includes the ALCAN Highway. Paul did a nice job of imitating Large Slow Target's style, I think.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sd7oln0u1qyc1 ... 5.zip?dl=0

Dave Bradley
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by dwbradley »

Continuing the discussion of changes;

The other big area of changes involves some of the economic parameters. Paul is very detailed oriented and did quite a bit of analysis of how the economies of both the Empire and the Allies would progress during the game. He was able to convince me (but not Large Slow Target) to concur with the following changes:
1. Resource repair is changed from 1000 supply points to 500.
2. Some resource centers in the areas needed by the Empire (DEI, Malaya, and Phillipines) were increased. As I write this I am fuzzy on the numbers but I think it was on the order of 25%.
3. Allied free daily supply was decreased at several locations, resulting in a decrease of daily free supply from 66K (approx.) to 54K (approx.).
4. Reduced cost of production in LI and HI from 25 to 20 resource points.
5. LI in UK is eliminated
6. The House Rule for Allied repair is changed to require only repair (and production) of HI, Oil, and Refinery assets and only in areas not immediately threatened (CONUS,Oz, India). The Allied player is free to manage the rest of the economy (LI, resources, repair shipyards, etc.) as he sees fit.

How is this going to play out? Clearly we cannot know until we get well into the game. I will attempt to give a good picture of my struggles with supply. I expect the first 12 months to be very challenging for the Allies. My expectation for the Empire is that they should be relatively OK at game start but will face increasing economic pressure as the demands of the war eat into their pre-war stockpiles.
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by dwbradley »

That is the end of my preamble for this AAR. I will hold off posting Allied strategy discussions and turn results for a few days until Paul has had a chance to defend himself here.

Dave Bradley
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by SierraJuliet »

4. Reduced cost of production in LI and HI from 25 to 20 resource points.


Good luck with your combined adventure in modding. I shall be watching on to see how your experience mirrors mine.

You should find the reduction of resource points required for LI and HI to be a boon for the Japanese economy. Of all the changes that LST has weaved into the game this is currently the bottleneck for me. I've not commented yet about this in my AAR. I was a bit slow to comprehend just how big a bottleneck that increase of a mere 5 points would be. Coupled with the decrease of resource output in the Home Islands proper this creates an insatiable demand for resources back home. It keeps me busy worrying over how to ship all the goodies back home. Goodies there are by the bucket load but the bottleneck is getting them back home. I can understand why LST would not have supported the idea of changing this aspect of the mod.

And enjoy the mess that is China! [:D]

Kido Butai, although powerful, was a raiding force, and this is exactly how the Japanese understood its usage. 'Shattered Sword'
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by Anomander Rake »

Hi to all. With Dave's permission.
My english isn't very good and writing in English is very tiring for me so I will not create a competitive AAR.
About house rules.
We have one more, I think important house rules (I always establish it).
"The first operational phase" - Japan can't conduct deep invasion (it means outside sphere of historical gains) before 1942 and after this date with use only SNLF's and SSD (Horii Army Unit). This rule is cancelled when Japan takes and opened following ports: Hongkong, Singapore, Manila, Palembeng, Batavia and Serabaja.

Some about changes in mod.
In mod Japan start with huge deficit of resources. And even the gains can not satisfy him. It's strange, because LST planned to expand LI. In mod this shouldn't be possible and resources should run out about 100 days of war.
So we change HI/LI resources request and added some resources center in DEI/Malaya/Philipinnes. Japan still started with more resource deficit than stock but now is possible to satisfying the needs of resources and even some LI/HI development.
Mod changes and especially industries cost excludes such development as in other games. I exclude the development of a shipyard in advance. I hope that I will have enough supplies to rebuild the oil center.
Reduced resources request for HI/LI helps also for alllies. But we also reduced "free supply" for them. I hope they will have supply difficulties in the first months.
As for China I would be careful. Japan can still do a lot there.
My english isn't very good, sorry for it.
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by CaptBeefheart »

Sounds pretty tough on Japan. This should be quite interesting. Thanks for adding to the AAR canon, gentlemen.

Cheers,
CC
Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by Bif1961 »

Looking forward to seeing how this mod and your modifications to it play out.
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by Mundy »

Hi Dave,

Glad to see someone else giving this a try.

Like SJ mentioned, it's a bit of a different mindset to play this one. I'm even shipping resources as well as supply to India from Cape Town. Resources will build up there.

The US proper will take time to fire up as most of the LI there is damaged. Pearl is the biggest supply hub at the start.
Image
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by SierraJuliet »

ORIGINAL: Mundy
I'm even shipping resources as well as supply to India from Cape Town. Resources will build up there.


Good to hear that bottlenecks exist all around. I shall never look at a tallie in the same way again.
Kido Butai, although powerful, was a raiding force, and this is exactly how the Japanese understood its usage. 'Shattered Sword'
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

I'm happy that Dave and Paul have decided to create their own variant of my mod for their PBEM - that's in the spirit of the buried "Sharing mod ideas" thread which I started long ago. We have had an email exchange discussing mod features and proposed changes. Thanks to Paul and Dave I have been able to correct a data glitch in the engine factories which has eluded my efforts to track it down for some time, and they have motivated me to take a closer look at the resource / production figures. I have accepted some proposals (e.g. more resources outside the Home Islands), disagreed on others (no bridge-building over the Yangtze, resources stay at 25) - the final version of Bottlenecks 1.1 (current one used by Mundy and SierraJuliet is a beta) will see some modifications thanks to the input of Dave and Paul. Have fun, guys, I will lurk around.
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by Anomander Rake »

Some comments on economics in early 1942.
The resources situation in Japan looks bad despite the changes. I wonder how bad it looks in a parallel game.
The situation with fuel also looks bad. What is aggravated by the need to involve more transport ships also to resources transport.
Here I will be able to write more after completing the first operational phase. probably there will be a ban on this thread for me.
Some about battles.
After long visit to the Hawaiian Islands KB returned to its bases. The American BBs won't return home.
In China IJA took Layong and they have increased the confusion among hordes of bad Chinese.
It's good in Malaya. It's hard on Luzon but without big battles.
At the end of 1941 IJA landed in Java although the evil colonialists didn't allow.
We have big Battle of the Javanese Sea.
Sneaky allied submarines work quite effectively.
They have hit many ships (only exploding torpedoes):
- CA (3 torpedoes!);
- CVE (3 torpedoes!) and second CVE took 3 air torpedoes !
- DD, APD and many more.
Almost like in 1944. There were also many unexploded ordnance, but I don't write about it.
My english isn't very good, sorry for it.
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

In many ARRS using stock and even DBB scenarios the Japanese players report having idle merchant shipping in port and that they did stop construction of freighters in order to save HI. This is because a large amount of resources is actually being produced in the Home Islands themselves and only a part of the existing merchant fleet is needed in the game to fill the relatively small resource deficit with shipments from Korea, Manchukuo and Hokkaido in order to keep the industry running.

This does not reflect reality - Japan was and is resource-poor and needed huge imports, in the war it lacked shipping space from the beginning and it only got worse, and they surely did not halt merchant ship construction. Resources did not come only from Korea, Manchukuo and Hokkaido. For example, the Bukit Besi iron ore mine I have added in Malaya was one of the largest in Southeast Asia at the time - and it was exploited by the "Nippon Mining Company". So, when the resource situation in Japan is looking bad in your game and you need to involve more ships to transport resources to Japan, then the mod is probably closer to history than the stock and DBB scenarios. I suspect the generous resource allocation in the Home Islands is a feature to help the AI.
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by Anomander Rake »

I very agree with idea greater use of cargo ships. I think I will have enough ships.
Problem is different. My advance is fast, I think. But after less than a month, I am unable to exploit all resources in the Malaya, DEI and Phillipines region.
Probably some of this sources will be destroy after conquest. So, exploitation will be delayed or impossible.
But now after less than a month I used a significant portion of the resources reserves from Japan. I read that oil reserves was problem for Japan and Japan ran out of them after years and not months of war.
Anyway, when I used more ship for resources transport I also used more fuel. And this is second possible problem. Is the amount of fuel well calculated for such consumption?
This is only question, I still don't have an answer.
p.s.
I'm sure that's my organization is very good. It is likely that I will cope with the above problems.
I'm also sure, however, that the changes we have made were necessary.
My english isn't very good, sorry for it.
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by Falken »

Hi LST,

Interesting comment about DBB's resource supplies. I know your MOD reduces this HI capability. Since you are playing a DBB game yourself, do you notice a big difference in how you approach the Merchant Shipyards and xAK/AK shipbuilding process?

I find this interesting, and since you are in a unique position of doing both MODs, really interested in your feedback. I'm waiting a bit before trying your MOD again as I think several AARs are probably giving you tons of feedback on possible slight changes/bug fixes, etc. I know that no MOD is every finished, and needs constant updates, but it will fun to try when you feel it's in a good place.

BTSL, BMOD, your MOD... so many choices. It's great for the community.
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

In my DBB-C game, I have in fact stopped construction of xAK merchant ships and tankers, since for the moment I have more than enough. I can keep the resources from stockpiling in the SRA, and I have way more tankers than I have oil and fuel to transport back to the home islands. That said, merchant ship losses to Allied subs have been quite low so far, my opponent Ed seems to prefer to hunt Combined fleet and to protect his invasions against counter-measures with carpets of his submarines. I do keep building the xAKL small fry that serves as cannon fodder for supplying the front line bases under Allied air superiority.

For my own mod, it is much more difficult to judge, since it takes so long to advance far into the game to see long-term effects. My current h2h test game is only in end of January 1942 (I tend to get lost in micromanagement instead of neglecting the finer points of the game in order to advance faster...). And I need to restart again since I have made another change in the meantime (feedback indicated that resource stockpiles run out fast in the HI - but that might be a problem of bad convoy organization, but I have upped the stockpiles). So I largely depend on user feedback. After all, it is common in the software industry to treat customers as beta testers [;)] I said in the mod notes, my fiddling with the economy is strictly experimental. Anomander Rake and dwbradley have taken my mod and made their own adjustments, which is perfectly fine for me, but it makes is more difficult to use this game as a benchmark for my own mod. But well, I'm still young and have many more years I hope to tweak my mod. It is like you said - never quite finished, just like building a model railroad.
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by SierraJuliet »

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

(feedback indicated that resource stockpiles run out fast in the HI - but that might be a problem of bad convoy organization, but I have upped the stockpiles)
Whilst Osaka and Tokyo have a huge appetite for resources, which does make it difficult, I'm inclined to think that convoy organisation is the key. It is tight though and as I'm only about 8 weeks in hard to say just how tight it is going to be. Keeping the Home Island HI ticking over is going to be a game within the game.
Kido Butai, although powerful, was a raiding force, and this is exactly how the Japanese understood its usage. 'Shattered Sword'
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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by dwbradley »

No Anomander Rake after this point, please.

Thanks

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RE: Bottlenecks and Longnecks - Anomander Rake (J) vs dwbradley (A)

Post by dwbradley »

Strategy General Thoughts and Musings
1. Since this is a game and not a real war (thank goodness), the best game strategy (played for our amusement) is not necessarily the same as the best war strategy (fought for survival). If the Allied command had the foreknowledge that we possess going into the game, a full Sir Robin might have been the best way to win the war with minimal Allied casualties. In our previous game (aborted approx. 100 days in) I saw that my opponent, Paul, as a careful and thorough player. He self-constrains his strategy to make no early deep thrusts into Allied territory, as he considers this unrealistic (and unfair). This is to his credit but knowing that is an advantage to the Allied player. In the spirit of playing fair, I too have self-constrained the Allies by not looking at the SIGINT reports until March 1, 1942. I do this because I think that the Allied intel is better (in some ways) than it was in real life. It certainly is better very early in the war than real life, when many of the listening stations were not in operation or were scrambling to not get overrun by the Empire's advances. Why March 1, 1942? Purely a guess on my part. So, in the previous game Paul played carefully, giving me almost no chance to counterattack. For my part I was fairly conservative and so, almost without planning to do so we were generating a classic Sir Robin scenario. That is OK, but kinda boring. Been there, done that. What are we playing the game for, anyway? As I thought over what I would like to do in a Bottlenecks universe, I decided that I needed some way to force myself to be bolder, to take chances (hopefully not super-foolish ones), and make the game more fun. I will foreshadow the AAR reports to come by noting that little did I know that Paul was coming to some sort of similar conclusion.
2. So, how to overcome my natural conservative nature and have a more wild and wooly game? I wanted to base my ideas on some sort of risk/reward assessment (gear-head background cannot be totally overcome). I rejected any sort of early grand smash-up of carrier forces. The odds of success are so poor and the value of the assets that must be risked are too high. The IJ player is almost begging for the Allied player to give that a try. Nope, better to find a way to use those assets in a different, if not totally new way. I latched onto several thoughts. One thought came from our previous game. In that game, what I had come to think of as Fortress Luzon was a pleasant surprise in a world of constant Allied defeats and retreats. I know that I had always thought of Luzon in a mostly historical framework, that is, token resistance early and then retreat to Bataan and hold out as long as you can (probably supply limited). But Bataan is only a X2 defensive hex. Clark is X3 and Manila is X4. I found, almost by accident that the new map of these three hexes forms a nice tight triangle. It gives you interior lines to allow shifting units to meet attacks. All the while, Bataan is building fortification levels. Ultimately, your troops will starve and you will lose Luzon but you may be able to hold out for a long time. To defeat this strategy the IJ player would have to bring a LOT of force to Luzon early and this force would therefore not be attacking anywhere else, or hopefully not for a while. My second thought was about the Bottlenecks “enhancements” to the Empire's need for stuff from places that need to be captured. If I could somehow delay the start of significant amounts of stuff to the Home Islands, then would that tend to precipitate the Empire's economic crisis early? Finally, in our earlier game, Paul was able to pick off all of the isolated bases in the Philippines and the DEI pretty much at his leisure and I saw very little gain for the Allies in trying to hold on to them.
3. The thoughts expressed in the above sort of came together in my mind and I started thinking first of a Fortress Java. I decided to send the at-sea LCUs at game start (Brit. 18th ID, the two brigades and the Gurka unit) to Java. Bottlenecks provides a number of air transport assets that are not in the stock game. I decided to use these and the Dutch, British, and USN patrol assets to airlift as many of the small combat units scattered around to a limited number of places that I would try to hold as long as possible. The bases I intended to make a stand at included Padang and Palemburg in Sumatra, Port Moresby, Denpasar and Koepang, and an undetermined set of bases in Java itself. I would move most of the air assets from Singapore to support the effort and the B-17 and P-40E contingents from the Philippines. I wanted to combine the RN assets such as the PoW/Repulse force with the Dutch naval forces and whatever USN surface forces could make it out of the Phillipines. Finally, I decided that I would send the Lexington TF down and around the bottom of Oz to meet the Yorktown coming from the other direction. I would base them at Perth and look for an opportunity to back up the Java land forces. As you will hear in my discussion of Pearl Harbor tactics I had reason to believe that I would not see KB in that arena for some time after game start.
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